I am coming around on Mike Leach. I saw photos of the place to which he exiled son of Craig James and it wasn't like a cell in the Gulag Archipelago. Though he is a bit eccentric, Leach is very bright. And I think that if given a second chance Leach would prove to be loyal and would not jump at the first bigger opportunity. It could not hurt to at least interview Leach. IMO he is a better candidate than OK State's Turgidson, or whatever his name is.

They will never hire Mike Leach. Not worth the keystrokes to even discuss it.

I agree that it's no time to panic, but with the recent leaks/rumors/etc that came out with Golden and Holgorsen I think it puts Pederson in the crosshairs more that each day passes.

If Pitt isn't willing to put the money up that it took Miami to get Golden, I believe that list of qualified candidates shrinks more. Furthermore, if one of the reasons Pederson had for replacing DW was due to empty seats against WVU, the perception of paying limited dollars for a third choice coach surely won't be helping.

I'm trying not to panic, but I'm definitely getting anxious.

Bob,
I think here is the reason for concern. Who cares if the fan base panics, but I think I as a passionate alumni am worried about Pederson. If Golden was his choice, or Holgorsen or heck Muschamp for that matter, this process hasn't gone smoothly from the DW press conference to the leaked names, etc. My fear is that out of the risk of more embarassment, he settles for a safe choice, high character guy, and we are left again uninspired, wondering why DW was fired in the first place. Pitt has a brand problem, its fans are bored with winning 17-10 games that feel like losses, playing in a conference that is a national joke, and an off-campus stadium that is regularly under capacity by 20K.

This administration is enamored with having to find a guy with local ties, high character, etc. Wonderful values in a coach if you can find them, but it may severely limit our pool of candidates and I think most of us don't have that much faith in how this process has been handled so far as well as with Pederson's history of what happend during his time at Nebraska. Totally understandable.

I would prefer to see a more offensive-minded coach, but regardless I do think Pitt needs to concentrate on some qualities that are not only attractive to them but also to the fans so as to generate some excitement and energy heading into the next season. Do I think the university should give in to the whims of guys like me, NO! However, this is also part entertainment, and since they are competing for my dollars, then yes how the fans feel about this program should be a little bit of a factor in this process. I wish we could all sit here with straight faces and say it's about sportsmanship, the student-athlete, the college experience, but we know that isn't really the case for the most part. It's about the money. Even for an respectable university like Pitt.

Nordenberg needs to get his head out of the clouds. Pitt is a great school but it is not ranked academically as high as Michigan or Penn State. Tell the chancellor to join the priesthood if he wants to administer litmus tests for candidates. And Pederson is looking pretty bad through this process. Unlike Bob, I have never been all that impressed with him. Is he ever going to make a decision about who's coaching in the bowl game or is Pitt going to disrespect ESPN, the bowl organizers, and the city of Birmingham??

Whoever it is, it'll be more 7-5.

Which is fine, I suppose.

Pitt's a basketball school now.

Smart move, too.Pitt will never be the #1 football team in the region.

Pederson knows that Pitt doesn't sell out, and never has. He's also got 3 more years of Wanny's contract to pay - he hasn't got the money for a known hire. He'll have to get lucky - if he can.

So far, this Pederson fellow is looking bad in public.

Once more, back in 1999, rather than choose football, they chose to be second fiddle in somebody else's stadium. They can't even choose the turf on their field. They can't even put their logo on their own 50-yard line.

That's called - choosing basketball.

Yeah, what about dissing those car dealers and catfish farmers who took time from their busy days to organize whatever that bowl is called in Birmingham? C'mon, it's just a matter of whether Wanny wants to. (BTW, 77019, you live in River Oaks?)

I think you are way too tough on Pederson and Nordenburg. There is no way the press conference was going to come of well and who knows what Nordenberg's involvement in the search is. For that matter, we know very little about the search except maybe somoeone at Allegheny County airport is leaking flight plans to the press. AllyLeaks? And just because someone is interviewed, like Holgorsen was, does not mean he is first on their list. All you have to do is ask the BMTIB.

I do, however, think a coach should be hired before Christmas. Pederson probably is working with a search firm, and they should be able to find a good coach soon.

Oh no! We didn't get Golden! We didn't get Holgorsen! We're doomed!

These are the same people who would have said Golden sux! Holgorsen sux!

Whoever they hire, you'll hear that anyway.

These are the same folks from whom, once upon a time, you heard:

Tomlin, Dixon, Howland, Cowher, and - if they're old enough - Noll: all bad choices. Shoulda hired the other guy.

.
Solid post, Bob.

Let me preface my comments by stating that I've long been a Pederson supporter. In fact, I was the very first person in this blog to suggest that, based on Pederson's firing of Solich (a much more successful coach that Wannie), that Wannie himself was ripe to be fired. Bob and others quickly pooh-poohed it, of course.

I also agree that a college doesn't want to overly rush this kind of critical hire.

Having said all of this, there is also a FLIP side, on the other side of "the fine line" Cowher often talked about, which in this case, is dilly-dallying and wandering aimlessly with no plan.

I'm not saying Pitt has reached that ugly side yet, but they're rabidly embarking towards it.

I assumed Pederson, days before he fired Wannshidt, had a very short LIST of whom he wanted to target. That plan should have been put into action within, oh, 2 minutes of Wannshidt's firing. The search firm should have made rapid contact with the top 3-4 candidates and moved with some purpose in arranging for interviews.

If this situation festers, it becomes like a leper, where no one wants to go within 20 feet.

To me, these next 48-96 hours are huge. Pederson better get the ball rolling in SOME sort of direction, lest we be left with a leftover like Cignetti or some other slugg.

Too early to panic ? Possible 'panic' is too strong - but there was reason for concern the day Wannstedt was fired ... er ... reassigned ...

Pederson does NOT have a good track record in this area ... the fiasco in Nebraska the proof ... the Callahan hire was a bad one from the first minute ... Nebraska - one of the more storied and respected programs in college football - is just beginning to crawl from the depths it was lowered to after this tailspin ... Nebraska went from 9-3 under Solich to worst home loss since 1958 during the Callahan years ... and the Pederson 'legacy' continues years after he was named the number one enemy of Nebraska fans - even above Barry Switzer ! ...

yes - perhaps not panic - but concern ! ...

and there is a chance the football Gods will intervene ... (for a good Pitt hire) ... despite past failures ... as evidenced by the Chuck Noll hire by the Steelers ...

Some considered the Dixon hire to be a bad hire - or at the least a reach.

Obviously - it worked out well. But many felt Dixon did not have the qualifications (including head coach experience) to take over a top Big East basketball team.

It's Day 7 of the post-Dave Wannstedt era at Pitt and a bit early to be panicking.

Substitute the name Frank Solich for Dave Wannstedt in this sentence and it is exactly what they were saying in Lincoln, Nebraska in December of 2003.

I raised the possibility of Pederson bumbling this process and decision the same way he did at Nebraska last week and so far it definitely appears history is repeating itself.

Pederson looked like an amateur at the press conference announcing the decision to fire Wannstedt and it appears he may not have been well prepared to make the change as he loses two of the men that were tops on his list.

Maybe, just maybe the wrong man got fired at Pitt?

Top of the morn!
OH the dreaded "lifestyle" comment. What is he a bohemian? As you correctly stated whom ever get's the job will be looking for a better job.

Looking at Paul Zeise's list of who won't be hired is telling - at least to me, those names seem more impressive than those rumored to be candidates. I would also guess that Bill Callahan is available & interested.

Hey fellas, John Russell is available. He is of the highest moral character. We can vouch for him.

Signed:
BMTIS

Bob,

Not to hijack this topic as I am often accused of, but if you get a chance today, I'd love to talk Phillies baseball.

I grew up during the great Pirates - Phillies rivalry of the 70's and by no means consider myself a Phils fan, but man what a rotation they are going to have next season with Lee, Halladay, Hamels, and Oswalt.

As a baseball fan in general, that is an exciting rotation to think about.

Thanks.

I can't understand the apparent lack of interest in Tom Bradley by the powers that be at Pitt, and by many of the alumni. You talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face, this is a classic example of it. How often do you get the chance to hire an excellent coach and stick it to you bitterest rival at the same time. I'm sure if the situation were reversed Penn State would take a great deal of pleasure in hiring a coach away from Pitt. It would be one thing if the coaching credentials wern't there but Bradley is an experienced coordinator at a big time program and projects to be an excellent head coach, so my advice to Pitt would be, swallow your foolish pride and hire a winner.

Maybe Pitt should look at K.C. Keeler from Delaware. He took Joe Flacco and made him into a 1st round draft pick. Now he may be doing the same with Pat Devlin. Remember -- Ohio State hired a guy from Youngstown and that has worked out pretty well.

I don't think it's time to panic, but the longer this goes on the more people are going to be talking about how Steve Pederson bungled the coaching search at Nebraska. I've written here before that if this pick is as uninspiring as Walt Harris was here, or Bill Callahan was at Nebraska, Pederson must face the same fate as Dave Wannstedt.

Agree as Pitt is not a prestigious football school and plays in a lousy conference not time to panic. But this issue does nothing for the football program's image. I have had the chance the last few years to follow Miami of Ohio's football program as my daughter attends school there and is great friends with one of the starting D lineman. As a person of character and a coach Mike Haywood is nothing short of a class act. He took a team that was 1-11 last year to 9-4 this year. By the way, beating Goldens' Temple team pretty handly. (Note: 4 losses were to Florida (close game), Missouri, Cincinnati and Ohio) As this would indeed be a step up I hope he would consider this job if offered.

I was for canning Wanny, but I HOPE they devised an action plan and aren't flying by the seat of their pants here.
The whole announcement of his "resignation", him coaching in the bowl game, and Wanny keeping some sort of office job is odd.

Off topic, nothing that can be done about it now, and at the risk of this being perceived as whining, I hate seeing a college game played off campus.

Note to Pederson:

Hire Randy Edsall. He's a good coach. Best in the Big LEast.

Sign it. Seal it. Deliver it.

Let's see now, Golden goes to Miami and Pedersen blew it - even though Randy Shannon was fired 3 days before Wannstedt AND Miami has a more prestigious program.

Let's see now, Dana Horgolsen is working the back channels with WVU and Pitt at the same time, and, in addition, Pitt didn't even come close to vetting Holgolsen, yet Petersen blew it again.

I guess that there is nobody left to coach Pitt now, right? Come on, it hasn't been 7 days since the Wannstedt press conference. There are more candidates out there than any of us know - let the situation play out a little and see who is the new Pitt coach by Christmas.

Remember, Pitt is loaded next year (there are 20 redshirted freshmen alone). All the new guy has to do is play to win (and not to lose), and maybe hire a special teams coach, and have a feel for calling a game of football, and Pitt will be the Big East Football champs in 2011.

.

but if Pitt is limiting its search only to those of the strongest character and moral fiber, it will be eliminating a lot of worthwhile candidates.

WOW

Are you endorsing a head coach of maybe just medium character and moral fiber?

I also wonder if Pederson is might be "guilty" of not accurately the reality of Pitt sports today. Like it or not, the school is now built to be a basketball power and not a football power. They are an inner city school with one of, if not the single best basketball facility in the entire country.

On the other had, they don't even have a football facility on campus. And the parents of big cornfed kids in the midwest are not exactly excited by the notion of sending their kids to an inner city school like Pitt.

Sure, there is some appeal to training and playing in facilities next to the Steelers but they are separated from campus by rivers, bridges, and tunnels. Playing at Heinz Field on the northshore and 5 or 6 miles from campus has, and will continue to prevent Pitt from selling out on game day. It is a logistical barrier to getting the students to come to the game.

Pederson's decisions to build The Pete on campus, and move the football facilities off campus have played a significant role in making this happen.

Over the past ten years, the Pitt basketball program has earned the equivalent of a BCS Bowl berth each and every year. The football program, while I think heading in the right direction, has been inconsistent.

Pitt would be absolutely crazy to not recognize, accept, and defend the reality they are now a basketball first school and work to maintain their lofty position as one of the top 20 basketball schools in the county.

I think maybe the odds are stack against Pederson to turn this program into a football power for a variety reasons...his previous decisions regarding the Pete and Heinz Field....and his inability to recruit good football coaches as evidenced by his fiasco at Nebraska.


I strongly disagree that Pitt is a basketball school. Using the logic shown on this board today, and not just with this post, is Penn State a women's volleyball school? Just because a sport is successful, as is Pitt basketball, that does diminish the importance of football. The fact Pitt fired a coach with a winning record is indicitive of the seriousness with which it takes football. --- Bob Smizik

.
proof reader alert

"Ten years ago, the Pitt basketball program was in worst shape"

max,

Good post..Lol

@NutHo . . . When did Pitt decide to become a basketball school and downplay football? It may appear that way to you because they are winning. The facility issue doesn't make sense. That is prime property in Oakland. It's more valuable if it's not sitting under a football field.

I think panic is too strong a word one week into this. With the bowl game being so late in the bowl season, there is time to find the right guy. And I am sure there are hundreds to choose from, more that the few that have been mentioned.

They will never hire Mike Leach. Not worth the keystrokes to even discuss it.

Can someone explain to me how Mike Leach became such a pariah so quickly? I mean, I realize he tossed Craig James' son in that shed, but ... seriously ... that never struck me as that big of a deal. And, if you watched Craig James' son's video of being in there, the younger James seems like a punk and probably deserved it.

Leach was one of the most innovative offensive minds in football. Yes, he's a loudmouth. Yes, he needs to learn some manners. But a guy like Leach could take Pitt from mediocrity to a national title contender. I mean that seriously. As Bob wrote, there is a huge advantage playing in the Big East. If Leach could put the same talent at Pitt that he put at Texas Tech (easy to do), Pitt could go 12-0 and would have to get a sniff at the BCS championship.

I realize I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but Leach is a much more exciting hire than everything else out there.

I strongly disagree that Pitt is a basketball school. Using the logic shown on this board today, and not just with this post, is Penn State a women's volleyball school? Just because a sport is successful, as is Pitt basketball, that does diminish the importance of football.

1. I strong disagree with your notion that Pitt is not a major basketball school now.

2. No, Penn State is not a women's volleyball school because volleyball is not one of the two college major sports, football and basketball. - C'mon Bob, you can do better than that.

3. I didn't say football isn't important, it most certainly is. However, like it or not Pitt is now a major college basketball power and a 2nd tier football school. To ignore that reality and not maintain and defend the status of the basketball program now that it is among the elite would be irresponsible.


You are right: Pittsburgh is a major basketball power and a second-tier football school. That doesn't make it a basketball school. That makes it a school that has a better basketball program than a football program. Pitt is still a football school because football is where the money is. -- Bob Smizik

@Tony77019...Pitt is academically ranked higher than PSU in many publications...including the London Times top 200 universities in the world. Stop spewing opinions in place of your facts.


Please quit the petty bickering. They are both good schools. -- Bob Smizik

@Jay Cee Tee...Miami fired Shannon 9 days before Wannstedt retired (was fired). Shannon was fired after they lost to USF on November 27th.

Uh, Hail 2 Pitt, no offense, but citing the London Times is grasping at straws. U.S. News & World Report's college rankings are generally the standard for these sort of things, and -- in their 2011 list -- they have Penn State at 47 and Pitt tied at 64. That's no offense to Pitt -- a fine academic institution -- but Penn State ranks higher.

Regardless of what the London Times wrote at one point.

Pitt is the biggest name in the Big East? Based on what? In fact with just four letters it is one of the smallest names in the Big East!

While Pitt basketball may have been in worse shape than Pitt football, only needing to recruit five or six stars is much easier to recruit 25+ each year. Maintaining a top level football team won't be a pcinic in Pittsburgh for anyone.

http://colleges.usnews.ranking...ngs/page+3

US News & World Report rankings

Fat Jimmy,

The Wheeling Intelligencer recognized Bob Nutting as "the light of the valley" this year.

That's pretty good too.

I strongly disagree that Pitt is a basketball school. Using the logic shown on this board today, and not just with this post, is Penn State a women's volleyball school? Just because a sport is successful, as is Pitt basketball, that does diminish the importance of football. The fact Pitt fired a coach with a winning record is indicitive of the seriousness with which it takes football. --- Bob Smizik

Yeah, Bob, that is a weak effort.

To follow up on NuHo's post, I think Pitt's status as a "basketball school" is reinforced by its conference, which is UNDOUBTEDLY a basketball conference. While being in the Big East doesn't make you a "basketball school", I think it definitely leans you that way. You even have to ask that question about West Virginia.

If Pitt chose basketball over football it happened long before Steve Pederson arrived on the scene. It would have happened when Pitt joined the Big East conference.

The Wheeling Intelligencer recognized Bob Nutting as "the light of the valley" this year.

I'm sure people in West Virginia LOVE IT when one of their own screws people in Pittsburgh.

BayouHoward: Yes, River Oaks all the way. Regarding the bowl game both the Big East and Pitt have a contractual obligation to play in it and a moral obligation to provide fans with a competitive game. It's ironic that Pederson is so concerned about finding a coach with the highest moral character while dissing the bowl game by not assigning a coach. It's getting to be a little ridiculous at this point. Also, if Pederson had discussed his expectations for Wannstedt on more than one occasion, the sudden forced resignation would not have set off the clumsy chain of events it has.


This is silly. Pederson is not disrespecting the bowl game. Pitt will have a coach when it shows up. For now, Wannstedt is administering the program. -- Bob Smizik

http://theintelligencer.net/pa...ml?nav=515

Wheeling Intelligencer report.

Mr. Smizik said, "With all respect to West Virginia, which has been the better program for at least a decade, Pitt is the biggest name in the Big East".

If you are talking basketball in a Pitt/WVU comparison, you're 100% correct. But your next sentence qualifies your remark as a football-only opinion, and in that you are 100% wrong.

In the 20 years of Big East football, Pitt was co-champs twice (3-team and 4-team tie), while WVU has two undisputed championships and four co-championships. More importantly, since Miami, Virginia Tech and then Boston College left the league after the 2003 & 2004 seasons, WVU has pretty much kept the league somewhat relevant on the national stage, with two massive BCS bowl wins. (I won't mention Pitt's result at that level)

Granting you Pittsburgh's 1976 championship season (and the 1981 Sugar Bowl victory), Pitt has a more storied history than WVU. But it has been 28 years since Pitt has made a national impact in college football, and that was a decade before Big East football started.

WVU is currently the most prestigious school in Big East Football, with all due respects to the University of Pittsburgh and Mr. Smizik.

There is a rock solid candidate available. Impeccable personal character. Loves Pitt. Winning resume. Three straight winning seasons, three straight bowl games. Will not use Pitt as a stepping stone for a better job. Would want to stay and return Pitt to national prominence.

Name is Dave Wannstedt.

Funny that everything you ever wanted, you already had and threw away?

I spent 8 years as an undergrad and grad student at Pitt and I'd like to respond to the recent posts glorifying Pitt Stadium.

I love tradition as much as anybody else I know and I saw many games there, dating back to Pitt/PSU and a Steeler game or two in the 1960s through the glory days of the late 70s and early 80s. I even played intramural softball on the old astroturf surface. When Nordenberg announced that the stadium would be demolished I was very upset. It was an understandable emotional response.

Then I recieved his three page letter to alumni explaining the decision. I was sold on the idea by the middle of the second page. Nordenberg wrote that the football program would be better off sharing top-notch facilities with a premier NFL team. He argued that the Pete would be one of the best basketball arenas in the NCAA and its recreation center would benefit all Pitt students. He also pointed out that the acreage freed up would allow for new dorms and green space, which would transform Pitt's urban campus. Reclaiming 11 acres was a unique opportunity that an urban university could not pass up. He was correct on all fronts.

I still hold season tickets to Pitt football games and I make it to several each year, even though I live six hours away. The atmosphere at Heinz Field is superior to the old days at Pitt Stadium. It is a more comfortable facility for players and fans. Access and parking is easier. The tailgating situation and post-game options are far better.

People forget the empty seats in Oakland. Even in the days when Coach Sherrill had them in the top ten for several consecutive seasons, there were plenty of empty seats for many big games, excepting PSU, WVU, and ND.

Heinz Field is NOT a problem for Pitt; it is an asset. It probably attracts fans and recruits compared to Pitt Stadium. The game day experience is far better and the athletic facilities, including the South Side compex, are superior.

I've brought more than a few out-of-towners to Pitt games at heinz Field and they have all loved it, including some VA Tech alums who (rightfully) relish the atmosphere in Blacksburg on game day.

Thank you, Steve, for putting this in perspective. The attempts by some to glorify Pitt Stadium is laughable. It was a dilapidated dump. It would be nice to be on campus but that's virtually impossible. -- Bob Smizik

Fat Jimmy,

Great, great point about the Big East Conference.

It is arguably the single best basketball conference in the country.

On the other hand, it is pretty much a national joke of 2nd tier football schools as a football conference.

And Pitt is the best basketball school in the best basketball conference.

It's almost absurd to argue it is not a top basketball program now.


Like I said. A top basketball program within a school fully committed to football. -- Bob Smizik

I also agree with the poster who correctly pointed out the South Oakland residential (to be charitable) dregs to be what they are, an embarassment. South Oakland would be an excellent venue for New Pitt Stadium.

Heinz Field is NOT a problem for Pitt; it is an asset.

Tell that to the student body who don't bother to catch the shuttles to make the 6 mile trek to Heinz Field.

When was the last sell out for a Pitt game at Heinz Field anyway?

Like it or not, the school hurt it's football program by moving the football facilities off campus.

It is a logistical barrier that has prevented the student body from supporting the program with sell outs.

There were dorms (Sutherland Hall) literally across the street from Pitt Stadium. Students did not walk the 200 yards to attend games. -- Bob Smizik

Opinion is one thing and mistating the facts is another:

1)"and Miami is a more prestigious program in a better conference"........... No it isn't! Miami unfaithfuls and No shows are as bad as Pitt's. No one in Miami really cares about college football. The media likes to hype Miami (I guess it hearkens back to the 80's era???) But this program is more of a disappointment than Pitt's.

2) "I trust that he learned from that and is a better man for it." ........... Trust but verify!
Lest we not forget, while Pedersen fiddles, undoubtedly recruiting is affected.
Too many queston marks surrounding Pedersen. The noon friday deadline is still on.


Let me see if I have this right: You're saying Pitt is a more prestigious football program than Miami? --- Bob Smizik

*t is NEVER too early to panic when sports is concerned!

I am deleting this and will delete all further posts about the academic qualifications and standings of Pitt and Penn State. It leads to way too much pettiness. Both are fine schools. -- Bob Smizik

As a football fan, Heinz Field is a great stadium to watch a game. As a Pitt alum, it is horrible to have to get up and either drive or ride the shuttle (on an old school bus) across town to get to a game. It doesn't help that the team is boring to watch and the stadium is generally half full with no energy.

Compare that with walking up the hill to the Pete to watch a game inside. It's not even close. Pitt is a basketball school now because it is known nationally for it's basketball. It has recent history on it's side. Pitt basketball also gets at least a shot at the title every year. There's always hope. The next 5 years (at minimum), Pitt Football has a 0% chance of making the national title game. For some fans, that's starting to be more and more of a turn-off.

My selfish side wants them to hire a coach that will build a team to score a ton of points. Wannestedt football is probably the most boring thing I've ever witnessed.

Responding to Nutting Hostage

"Tell that to the student body who don't bother to catch the shuttles to make the 6 mile trek to Heinz Field.

When was the last sell out for a Pitt game at Heinz Field anyway?"

There were MANY empty seats in the student section at Pitt Stadium. Were you ever there?

Heinz Field normally sells out for ND and WVU (although it did not this year). It would certainly sell out for PSU. The record at Pitt Stadium was very similar.

I'm starting to come around to a Mike Leach interview. Even on Joe Bendel's show he said Leach has an outstanding offensive resume and that pro coaches have consulted him at times and been astounded at his offensive insight and innovativeness.
The drawbacks is that the guy is a bit of an oddball choosing to show up at interviews wearing shorts, a hawaain shirt, and sandals (count me in.)He also (so they say) is abrasive toward the media and administrative people (I like that and has that Craig James/ESPN lawsuit hanging over his head (which I'm sure he'd drop in a heartbeat to coach again.)
Alas I think Pedersen and Nordgren would be intimidated to hire a Pepperdine Law grad who is intellectually and academically more intelligent than they are! Ya know.... keep things dumbed down and keep that Peter Principle alive and well.

More for Nutting hostage:

It is not 6 miles from Oakland to Heinz Field. More like 3, but your point remains valid.

Hail2Pitt:
United States National Research Council: Penn State 9 - Pitt 14
Washington Monthly college rankings: Penn State 7 - Pitt 43
The American Top Research University ranks have Pitt & State neck-and-neck:
Public University of Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh 3 5 530,162 20 422,316 12 2,254,379 29
Public Pennsylvania State Univ. - Univ. Park 3 4 567,549 15 320,258 20 1,173,420 61

@Tony77019 and Fat Jimmy

#64 vs. #109

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

As I am sure you are aware rankings are subjective and each formula is different. The US News and World Report takes kick-backs in return for some of their rankings.

If your kid's research into colleges starts and ends at the US News and World report, then you have more problems than I previously expected.

Bob,

You are right: Pittsburgh is a major basketball power and a second-tier football school. That doesn't make it a basketball school.

Being the best basketball program in the best basketball conference in the country makes Pitt a basketball school.

There is no shame in that, rather it is something to be very proud of and the position should be strongly maintained and defended.

What is wrong with defending the basketball position and perhaps attempting to improve the football program and related income despite the inherent liability of having off campus football facilities?

Let go of the past Bob and embrace the present.

The days of Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, and NUMBER 99 HUGH GREEN are over.

Look, I'm not even a basketball fan and I recognize and accept the reality of the situation.

Bob - You have been around "The sky is falling" blogosphere enough to know that it is never too early to panic. Panic, innuendo, rumor and anonymity drive this bus. Reason,calm and fact have been relegated to the world of make-believe

There were dorms (Sutherland Hall) literally across the street from Pitt Stadium. Students did not walk the 200 yards to attend games. -- Bob Smizik

Exactly right, and another reason why Pitt is a basketball school first and a football school second.

"Let me see if I have this right: You're saying Pitt is a more prestigious football program than Miami? --- Bob Smizik"
**************************************************
Let me say this Bob: regarding these two schools, prestige is in the eye of the beholder.
The Miami alumni may be weaker and more non-supportive than Pitt's. The fans are johnny-come-lately's and the program lives off its Vinny Testaverde days.
Top notch coaches love the place for its hot bed of recruiting, but that doesn't seemed to have helped it much. The program is a major disappointment!!!
Pitt has a better fan base, the alumin stay closer to home and their facilities are better.
IMO it's a toss up, but since I grew up loving Pitt.......... yes...... Pitt is better

I think Golden did them a favor going to Miami. I also think if Pitt had an on campus facility of say 50000 seats they would benefit. "However", as Steven A. Smith would say "it ain't happenin anytime soon if at all." So you promote Heinz Field as best you can, after all the U plays is a municipal stadium.
They will find a coach sooner than later, it's just the lies that are told in the meantime that drive the fans crazy.

I was curious to read Pederson's comments that he had several names in mind because he felt Wanny would be hangin it up very soon. I don't ever remember Wanny saying he was looking to retire soon.
I think Pederson was in a daze and spoke without thinking.

Hail2Pitt, I love that you have to reference a British newspaper to prove your point. Do you look to La Parisien for Pittsburgh restaurant reviews?

Richmond Steve,

Yes, I attended many games at Pitt Stadium. - In fact most, if not all of the home games during the 33-3 run in 79-81 when I was in high school.

I am not critisizing the decision to replace Pitt Stadium, it was in pretty bad shape.

And maybe going to Heinz Field was the right / best move they could choose, but the fact remains removing the football facility off campus, across the river, and several miles away has and will continue to prove to be a major obstacle in getting the student body to attend Pitt football games, especially to sell out.

I am telling you Pitt fans... Pitt will hire Jay Norvell from Oklahoma. Don't be surprised if he is your coach before Christmas!

Nutting,

re: "removing the football facility off campus, across the river, and several miles away has and will continue to prove to be a major obstacle in getting the student body to attend Pitt football games, especially to sell out."
**********************************
Attend a game at UF (The Swamp) where it's 100 degrees, there is no parking (cops sit in trees and roof tops with binoculars to tag and ticket cars,) and you've gotta lug your self a ways to get to the stadium. A winning program at Pitt will change your stadium argument.

Richmond Steve,

3 miles maybe as the crow flies.

Not as the bus or cars drive.

According to Mapquest, 4.43 miles.

So, I'll meet ya in the middle.

To all of those who have not been in college for a while I will say this. Most students today are too tired, hung over and indifferent to college football on Saturdays. Then you have the geeky types that are in the labs all over campus trying to keep up with their peers. The rest are at Starbucks, panera and the other coffee shops trying to study, while others are working to pay for their education. Football is an after thought, especially if they have to get up early and get on a shuttle bus and watch boring football

I told you guys that the guy from Miami Oh will be the pick... Thats looking like the man now... He has a 300k salary right now he would like the raise at Pitt. Nobody else is interested in this downtrodden program... 30 years of not winning a big game will have (new years day bowl) does not make this an attractive place. I dont understand why pitt fans think they will get some proven winner in here or somebody with a big name. The miami oh guy will be a fierce hard worker and get the program where it needs to be.... best of luck with your wishful thinking.... and no bradley is not interested in the job either folks so get that out of your head as well...

SteelEERs Fan wrote, "WVU is currently the most prestigious school in Big East Football..."

Maybe so but please ponder the following:

Question #1 - Why ain't WVU the Big East Champions?

Question #2 - How do you explain the fact that Pitt currently has more players in the NFL than any other team in the Big East?

And to the guy that is comparing Pitt and Miami Wake up...

Miami is a top 10 coaching job. Do you realize the recruiting hotbed that is south florida. Miami has the name The U is still a top 10 coaching job..

Also you said Pitts fan base is better than Miami's, Pitt's fan base is horrible pal when you average 25k a game and don't sell out your rival thats 50 mins. away you have no fan base.... Wonder how well pitt will travel to the compass bowl...

lead4137,

Open your eyes dude: I said it was a hotbed of recruiting. That being said the Miami program has been a dismal failure. Don't know if you niticed their head coach was fired just recently??? Or maybe you don't watch college football that much "pal"?
I will continue to compare Pitt's program to Miami's program and not be thrown off the trail by a media who over-glorifies a less than worthy program at Miami. I suggest you do the same and come armed with truth instead of hyperbole.


Feel free to continue to compare the two programs, Chilco. Just don't say Pitt's is as prestigious. --- Bob Smizik

1. If you limit the venue options for Pitt football to old Pitt Stadium or Heinz Feild, Heinz is the obvious winner, but the best option would have been to build a new football stadium on or adjacent to campus.
2. WVU is the most prestigious football program in the Big East because it is the only one that is enthusiastically supported by a large, broad, and loyal fan base. (this from a die-hard Pitt fan and alumnus).

Sorry NuHo... Pitt does not have the best basketball program in The Big East. UConn and Syracuse are the cream of the crop. Pitt should be VERY proud of what their basketball team has achieved and will achieve, and they are one of the finer programs in the country. But they are a cut below the top two.

Fat Jimmy...so you are discounting a report just because it's from the UK? They can't possibly be as smart as us gosh darn americans?

So if a Paris agency wrote about a Pittsburgh restaurant, it must be false, but if the PPG wrote about it, it must be true? Using that analogy, if KDKA reports it, it must be true, but if CNN reports it, it must be false? More local = more truth?

PSUmule,

Sorry NuHo... Pitt does not have the best basketball program in The Big East. UConn and Syracuse are the cream of the crop.

Nuh-uh!

chilco,

You asked for facts haha.....
Since 1983 Miami has won 5 National Championships almost 6 if it wasn't for Joepa. IN that time period Pitt has not even won a major bowl game on New years day and has not finished the season in the top 15. If you want to talk present day we don't have to look to far back now do we. What was the score this year of the Miami-Pitt game at Heinz field.. Yeah you can compare all you want in your little pitt world, but fact is Miami and Pitt are not comparible buddy enjoy the compass bowl...

lea4137, re: "Miami is a top 10 coaching job."
It is a better job than Pitt, but it is nowhere near the top half dozen jobs in the Big 10, the top 6 or 8 in the SEC, at least the top tier of the PAC 10 and the Big 12, Notre Dame, etc. A top 20-25 positon at best.

I think the reason a lot of people consider Pitt to be a basketball over football school is the result of the Big East conference itself. When you have a league of 15+ schools and 6 of those schools do not participate in football... it can be seen as a basketball first league. Add to the fact that Pitt's football team shares a stadium while the basketball team has one of the better facilities in the country, and you can see why many people have the perception of Pitt as a basketball first school.

"I can't understand the apparent lack of interest in Tom Bradley by the powers that be at Pitt, and by many of the alumni. You talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face, this is a classic example of it. How often do you get the chance to hire an excellent coach and stick it to you bitterest rival at the same time. I'm sure if the situation were reversed Penn State would take a great deal of pleasure in hiring a coach away from Pitt. It would be one thing if the coaching credentials wern't there but Bradley is an experienced coordinator at a big time program and projects to be an excellent head coach, so my advice to Pitt would be, swallow your foolish pride and hire a winner."

You are exactly right Bill. And if Pitt does hire Mr Bradley, I hope he brings that Paul Jones fellow with him to play QB.

kevin morris wrote, "WVU is the most prestigious football program in the Big East because it is the only one that is enthusiastically supported by a large, broad, and loyal fan base."

WVU football has no competition in the entire state of WV. There's nothing else - no pro teams, no other college teams, nothing. Pitt would be much more enthusiastically supported if the Steelers and Penn State would go away.

============================
Of Character and Moral Fiber

The imposition of a personal ranking system of human beings based on one's own idea of character and morals is pure arrogance....furthermore, basing one's personal rankings on 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc hand information without any actual 1st hand knowledge is a major factor as to why this country has become a polarized, paralyzed shell of itself....man vs woman, race vs race, old vs young, right vs left, city vs country, healthy vs sick, rich vs poor....choose your side and let fly!

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Sorry Bob...Pitt IS a BE basketball school with a football problem and no proper house to call it's own...that is the view from afar and from this alum.

hyrru

Student season tickets sold out this year, and they expanded the student sections. The students were as fired up as everyone else by the pre-season hype, but stopped showing up when the wheels came off.

I am deleting this and will delete all further posts about the academic qualifications and standings of Pitt and Penn State. It leads to way too much pettiness. Both are fine schools. -- Bob Smizik


If this is all the better use of your time, Bob, you need to retire from retiring.

lea4137,

I want you to say this to yourself 100X ........ The Jimmy Johnson days are over and you're resting on past laurels.
Donna Shalala and the rest of the Miami AD agree with you 100%.
Poor Miami........ I remember when! memories...of the way they were.....

@ pwmcdupitt -
Great post! Had Pitt provided the fans with anything resembling the pre-season expectation, I guarantee it would have been much more difficult to find a seat at Heinz Field for the WVU game.

chilico,

what about the emberrassment this year miami laid on Pitt....... by the way jimmy johnson only won 1 national title of the 5 since 83..... I guess one is not that bad since Pitt has not even won 1 bowl game on new years day during that time period.
But you are right Pitt and Miami have equal programs and coaches across America view Pitt and Miami as equal college football programs...enjoy that panther kool aid....

How is Pitt the biggest name in the Big East? Coaches are attracted to jobs that will pay them the most money and provide them the best opportunity to win a national championship. How has Pitt demonstrated that it is any better at providing these opportunities than WVU, Syracuse, or even UConn?

"Feel free to continue to compare the two programs, Chilco. Just don't say Pitt's is as prestigious. --- Bob Smizik"
******************************
Bob....... I answered your question, now will you please answer mine?
What in your mind, or more specifically what has Miami done lately to shower them with the word "prestigious"?
Granted, they had a nice run! So did Pitt in the 70's. That's all over now. They've gone from the likes of Testaverde and Kelly to Jacory. Their coach couldn't get it done and was fired. They've played some disastrous football over the past few years.
Academically both are good schools.
Is the field or workout facilities better at Miami? (I'll answer that for you....NO!)
Are the fans and alumni better and more giving?
Is attendance way above Pitt's?
If I'd use your logic and lea4137's, SMU would still be more prestigious program than Pitt's.
The here and the now Bob. C'mon lay that golden U pedigree on me.



Chilco: I said the Miami program is more prestigious than the Pitt program. I will stand by that. You are correct that Miami has been upon some hard times, by its standards. But it is a more prestigious program than Pitt and that was the original point of this discussion. -- Bob Smizik

Hey fellas..... this is what I call Miami U "prestige":

"The Hurricanes finished Davis' first season with a record of 8-3, which may have drawn a bowl invitation. However, on December 20, 1995 the NCAA announced that Miami would be subject to severe sanctions for numerous infractions within the athletic department. Among the sanctions was a one-year ban from postseason participation and a scholarship reduction of 31 over a three year period beginning in 1996.

In 1994, Tony Russell, a former UM academic advisor, pleaded guilty to helping more than 80 student athletes, 57 of whom were football players, falsify Pell Grant applications in exchange for kickbacks from the players themselves. The scandal dated all the way back to 1989 and secured more than $220,000 in federal grant money. Federal officials later said that Russell had engineered "perhaps the largest centralized fraud ... ever committed" in the history of the Pell Grant program"

shhhhhh........ say nothing until you know more, and there will be more to follow.

The New York Jets and New York Giants share a stadium. Are those NFL teams lessened by that in any way? Do either have a proper home?

hmmm??? "the scandal dated all the way back to 1989. hmmmm??? By my timeline that is the year they won a National Championship. hmmmm? and then another Championship in 1991 after they polished the criminals up for another run. "Prestige." Ain't it grand?

Can someone explain to me how Mike Leach became such a pariah so quickly?

When I said that Leach won't be hired at Pitt, it's not so much because I agree with it. It's because Pitt will not accept anyone that comes across with a questionable reputation.

Add to that what Ziese reports to be a hired limited in salary, and that's why it's a waste to even discuss him as an option.

Bob and lea4137,

Seriously (really,) I want to thank the both of you for making me do my homework on the Miami program.
It's clear that Miami ran a woefully dirty program and is worthy of an ESPN 30/30 Special.
There title runs were predicated on kickbacks, bribes, and fraud, and if it hadn't been for the SMU "death penalty" fiasco, Miami may have been the first to receive such. The Miami media embraced the fraud, while the Dallas media rejected it.
'prestige.'

By know means am I trying to raise your ire Chilco... But, unfortunately for your argument, Bob is correct. Miami is more prestigious than the University of Pittsburgh's football program on a national level. They have had more high profile coaches and those Jimmy Johnson coached teams are legendary. ESPN even did an hour long documentary on the glory years in the 1980's and 1990's. They are known nationally by their nickname "The U'. They play several high profile games against nationally relevant programs like Florida State and Florida. I know that the on the field product in Miami has been sub standard for ten years, but they still garner national attention. Pitt is king in Western PA and and northern WV... on a national scale, MIami is more prestigious.

psmule,

I live down here and have relatives in Miami and for the record the Hurricane's are an afterthought both at the university and in the community. The Heat and the Dolphin's rule supreme. I put them both at even stevens.
Go to Wikipedia and look at how their golden years were set up by fraud, bribery, and felonius activity. It's not far behind what SMU did in their short but brief golden years.
Yes.... the media has been enthralled with these thugs for years and have given them a pass that no other program could ever get. ESPN and certain columnist's can crow all they want about this house built on a foundation of sand, but it's clear once the payments to the players stopped, so did the championships!
A dirty program is what it is..... but it ain't "prestigious."

Chilco... I agree with you 100%. And for the record, the game where Penn State shut up the camo fatigue wearing Canes was the first time I became a Penn State fan. But you are making a different argument than which school is more prestigious. Were they a dirty program... you betcha. But on a national scale, Miami football gets more respect than Pitt. Playing in those nationally televised games against marquee powerhouse programs gives the Canes a TON of exposure. Sadly, Pitt doesn't have that exposure right now.

chilico,

you are correct... pitt is better now and the last 30 years. pitt has an awesome fan base that travels well to bowl games. pitt is respected nationally by all and the wpial is a major hotbed for recruiting. the speed in the coal belts is twice the speed of south florida... the last 30 years pitt has been amazing in football while not winning a major new years day game. miami has been horrible in that time period winning 5 national titles... miami is also horrible this year as well and pitt is a much better program right now. that game this year was a total fluke between miami and pitt. al golden is regretting his decision to join pitt. pitt is it man.. i give up chilco you win pitt is way more of a prestigious job than Miami. im sure any coach would love to be here in this weather interviewing at pitt today than walking around miami u's campus...

Is Miami more prestigious than Pitt? If you're in Pittsburgh today go outside for five minutes. Then come back inside and answer the question.

Just unbelivable when I hear Ron Cook say people would have a hard time accepting Bradley because he coached at PSU (although Cook is not against it at all).

I don't know how more idioticly stupid anyone can be, to say "where" he coached or for "Who" would have anything to do with not hiring him. That there is some kind of sacriligeous act that would occur in doing so, is utter ineptitude on the part of the individual who feels that way.

They probably believe in ghosts and goblins and that Elvis owns a seven eleven right down the street. SHEEEESH!

Multiple sources are reporting that Dana Holgorsen has accepted the OC and HC position at WVU.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/201012140659

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/f...e_head_co
ach_in_2012

Pitt looks bad right now! Really really bad!!

This is a disgrace!! Pitt should fire Steve Pederson right now!! I just can't see how anyone can possibly the defend this guy after mucking this up!! We look like fools!!

And hire Leach for gods sake!! What the "f" is wrong with you people!!??!!! Get a clue now before it's too late!!

We're going to wind up like the U. of MN. Hiring Skippy Twoshitz from East Bumfus university to be our coach!! They might as well of kept Wannstedt at this point! what a frickin' disaster!!

If it is true that Pitt will not hire or even talk to Bradley solely based on the fact that the two teams played a highly spirited rivalry game over 10 years ago, Pitt is in more trouble than I thought. If that is true, it explains the last thirty years of Panther football.

psumule70 - that ESPN documentary on the U was not what I'd call complimentary. It was a show about thugs who still don't get it.

Pitt can't even get an OC from Oklahoma State.
Miami got the youngest top coach in the game who didn't even look at Pitt...

For you to think these schools are in same tier past, present, or future is ridiculous.....

JL... I agree. But I guarantee that a large number of young people thought that Miami looked "cool" based on that documentary.

Seriously, this Miami v Pitt thing is pretty stupid. Give it a rest.

After reading all the rants, etc. I almost forgot....

1) Excellent post Bob. I agree 100%
2) Richmond Steve is spot on WRT Pitt Stadium....although I would say that the Heinz Field location does not have "The Decade" at the corner of Rock and Roll "dahn" the street. Neither does Oakland anymore.
3) I agree with chilco on the prestige issue.
4) I disagree with chilco on the attractiveness of Leach. I'd avoid hiring someone who is suing their former employer. It has nothing to do with being intimidated by someone who has a law degree from Pepperdine (BTW - I was accepted into Pepperdine Law ). In this case, its an unnecessary risk.

psumule70 and Jopa-n and all the other Nits...

You know I'm a Pitt fan - a season ticketholder for years...just want to go on record as saying that I'd be thrilled if Bradley were the Pitt hire. Make Gattuso the DC as well and keep Cignetti.

JL... If he isn't the guy for the job, then so be it. But is they won't interview Bradley based on his time at Penn State, you seriously have to question how Pitt runs it's program.

Ok, WVU took our latest candidate and he even has to wait a year!

Pedersen, you are minding me of Frank Coonelly!

Coach Dixon has done a great job with the BBall program...but as far as ultimate results basis...so far...not past the Sweet Sixteen.....??

Except for that Elite 8 in '09'