Bob Smizik

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Today we talk about a football league that gives lip service to player safety but then extends the season to an unreasonable amount of games. This is a league that seems more concerned with playoff revenue than player well-being.

And it’s not the National Football League.

It’s the Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association (PIAA). This is the group that has high school kids still playing football past the middle of December. This is the group that has high school kids playing as many as 16 games -- three or four more than most colleges -- in addition to two scrimmages.

This is the group that has lost touch with its priorities. These are one-time educators who have become sports administrators. They’ve lost sight of the purpose of high school sports.

It’s hard to say whether it’s the lure of glory or gold that has set the PIAA on this path to where Pennsylvania is one of four states still playing high school football.

The other three?  

Texas, California and Florida.  It's doubtful teams and fans traveling to those games have to worry about snow-covered roads. It's doubtful the fans on the site have to worry about frostbite.

But in the PIAA football is king and if they have to play until almost Christmas, so be it. Which is why there will be eight high school teams deciding for championships today and tomorrow at Hersheypark Stadium.

I can remember when there were no state football playoffs in Pennsylvania. By most accounts the sport didn’t suffer. The likes of Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Mike Ditka, Tony Dorsett, Johnny Lujack and dozens of future NFL players seemed to make their way without a four-week extension of the season.

But in the 1980s, some so-called educator got the idea that if there were state champs in other sports, why not football. There’s nothing wrong with that. But to extend the season the way they have is unconscionable.

Ohio, for example, finished its playoffs two weeks ago.

While not an innocent party in these shenanigans, the WPIAL is in favor a starting the season a week earlier so there will be a lesser chance of bad weather and, I’m surmising here, so basketball players on the football teams can get to their basketball teams.

The PIAA steering committee for football has voted 11-0 to start the season a week early. That’s a good idea but there's no guarantee it will happen because the schools in the eastern end of the state don‘t want to start earlier in August.

Here's a better idea. Eliminate some games.

High school players should not be involved in 16 games, even it it's only two teams. The district (WPIAL) playoffs are far too long. The WPIAL playoffs take four weeks and involve many teams with losing records. Reduce them to three weeks or even two.

Considering the information coming out about the dangers of football, it’s time for the PIAA and WPIAL to rethink these overly long schedules.

That is, if they can do without the gate receipts.


Comments (45)Add Comment
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written by Big Magnum, December 17, 2010 - 12:26 AM
The PIAA is consumed too much by the organization's quest for lucre and not enough for the well-being of scholastic student-athletes.

It's why playoffs continue to expand (play-in games to the state tournament in several sports), the dual-meet championships in wrestling, along with the individual state tournament.

Sure, it is great to reward young people with postseason play. But should the 7th-place team from District 7 really merit a place in the state basketball tournament? Or the ninth-place team from District 1?

It's why ticket prices for events continue to go up at a higher-than-average rate; rights fees for local radio stations continue to skyrocket ... the PIAA will do anything to extract a few more dollars.
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written by STATONJM, December 17, 2010 - 12:39 AM
I agree completely. When I went to school in the Pittsburgh area, Gardner points were used to determine champions.

Too often deserving undefeated teams were left out in the cold. For that reason, it was decided to earn championships on the field.

Now it has gotten completely out of hand. I agree that the best solution is to reduce the number of regular season games.

Unfotunately, it will probably take some severe injuries or some tragedy on slippery roads to get some sanity back into the playoff situation.
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written by BayouHoward, December 17, 2010 - 01:31 AM
I live in Louisiana and here the championship games were played last weekend on an indoor field at the Superdome.

To me the PIAA playoffs seem like an anticlimax following the WPIAL championships at Heinz Field. What a treat that is for all involved. Why not conclude the season then for WPIAL participants? The WPIAL championsips have a long traditiona and pre-date by decades PIAA football championsips. The WPIAL games are played at the right time right after Thanksgiving.

And no matter what WPIAL teams decide, conference fourth teams, and probebly third place teams too, are, in my opinion, undeserving of post season play.
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written by Scooter, December 17, 2010 - 01:36 AM
The coaches want a longer season, the AD's want a longer season, the PIAA wants a longer season, half the parents want a longer season, and the university coaches want spring football.

Ergo, longer season.

High schools just copy the colleges. Liberalisation creeps. It doesn't just happen all of a sudden. That's why it has to be resisted so strenuously.

Heck, there's even a high school in Texas that's building a $60 million dollar stadium. Even Pitt didn't shell out that kind of money for its' football facilities, it'd rather be a second-fiddle renter; but that's another sad story.
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written by Bipolarman, December 17, 2010 - 04:40 AM
They’ve lost sight of the purpose of high school sports.
- Bob Smizik

I ask this sincerely. What is the purpose of high school sports? Should sports be a part of the educational system or should they be operated by organizations that are not funded with tax-payer dollars?
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written by bobbyg16148, December 17, 2010 - 05:42 AM
The WPIAL is as guilty as anybody in this situation.
They refused in the past to adjust their 4 week 16 team championships. If they are sincere, the WPIAL should be the leader and tell the rest of the state that they would be willing to cut ONE round of the playoffs to help.
If the PIAA starts the season a week earlier and elimates one week of the playoffs. The season would end on Dec 3rd and 4th, a week before bball starts.
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written by 123, December 17, 2010 - 06:15 AM
I was channel surfing last night and came up on PCN and they were previewing the state championship games. I thought I was watching the ususal replay on how sausages were made in Berlin, PA. No, it was real time.

The week before Christmas...way too late.

Where I live our A team makes the playoffs in WPIAL every year at 5-4 or 6-3 and then gets CRUSHED in the playoffs. They have no reason being there in the first place. Just a way for the WPIAL to make money. And by then out here the kids who play football are moving into wrestling and they could not care less about playing a game they know they will be embarrassed at the end.

It is funny that NCAA refrains from a playoff for reasons that include academic take away time and we have high schoolers playing until practically Christmas.
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written by Bill, December 17, 2010 - 06:23 AM
I agree they should do what WV did have 3 judges and 8 lawyers determine who would play in the AAA finals. Talk about a travesty and waste of public money.
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written by chuck broad, December 17, 2010 - 06:35 AM
i lost what little respect i had for the piaa when they forced the french creek valley league to basically disband. When it still existed, the average fan and athlete traveled an average of a 25 minute drive to a game: now the same athletes have to travel to at least 3 of the regular season games an hour or more, and thru deer country during the rut. Examples are easy for Conneaut Valley: instead of driving ro cambridge springs ( 25 minutes) go to farrel...hour plus; instead of going to lakeview( which used to be the 2nd longest trip) 40 minutes go to sharpsville over an hour; instead of playing union city...35 minutes..now kennedy catholic...an hour. To make matters worse, due to the change in when kids have to not be driving being reduced an hour, the games start at 7 instead of 730; making it even harder for parents to get out of work and to the games. Shame ! Shame ! Shame ! piaa is Shameful!
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written by SonnyDrysdale, December 17, 2010 - 06:41 AM
I look forward to the day when all high school sports will be club sports. The real estate taxes are too high and I don't feel that scholastic sports should be paid for by tax payers. The ridiculous length of seasons is wasteful. It should be 8 games and two playoff games. The football coaches want year round participation from their players. This has to stop as well. Too big, too powerful and too expensive in my opinion.
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written by heartbeatsings, December 17, 2010 - 07:05 AM
Excellent posting, I could not agree more.
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written by Whistle Pig, December 17, 2010 - 07:13 AM
Amen!

In so many ways, the PIAA powers look so sadly like Congress. Power run amuck.
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written by Ascanr, December 17, 2010 - 07:20 AM
Texas, California, Florida, Pennsylvania...
Where does most of the college and pro talent come from?? This is no suprise. The meat market thrives in these states. 8 games and a couple of playoff games aint gonna do the trick.
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written by Niblick, December 17, 2010 - 07:32 AM
Bob, I totally agree with you. But, it would be interesting to see how much revenue these playoffs really generate. It's not like we are talking major television contracts. I don't even know if the games are on radio. Gate receipts can't be that great. Maybe a few thousand dollars. I really don't know what drives all of this except for some administrators wanting to have a championship.
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written by Nutting Hostage, December 17, 2010 - 07:34 AM

Maybe the PIAA could develop some sort of computer ranking system instead of playing all these games into mid-December???

smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by Fat Jimmy, December 17, 2010 - 07:43 AM
So, let me get this straight:

Bob is against the PIAL having playoffs.

Bob is against college football having more than a handful of bowl games.

Bob is against an 18-game NFL season.

Bob is against the NCAA playing basketball games after 9 p.m.

Basically, Bob doesn't want people playing sports.

Ironic since he was a sports columnist.

And, if I'm following the piece correctly, one of the primary reasons he's concerned about the PIAL playoffs is hazardous road conditions!

Of course, there are dozens of other winter sports that have to travel on the perilous icy roads. I guess it's okay if the basketball team's bus crashes?

Where I live in North Carolina, they just finished up their playoffs. I saw an interview yesterday with a few of the kids who won the state championship and their faces were beaming from ear to ear. It was the greatest moment of their lives, and -- if I read their body language correctly -- they would have played to Valentine's Day for the same opportunity.

No one puts a gun to these kids to play sports. They do it because they enjoy it. What is the harm in letting them play?

When you show me evidence that the kids who play in high school playoffs suffer more long term brain injuries than kids who do NOT play in playoffs, then I'll join the movement against high school playoffs (of course, at that point, football should be banned, period). Until then, let the kids have fun!


Jimmy: I'm a sports columnist but also a citizen and a parent. I believe sports are stressed way too much in our society. One of the great experiences of my life was playing high school football, and I was no star. We had an eight-game season -- nine if we made it to the championship game.
I'm glad the kids in North Carolina were happy that the won the state title. I'd bet they'd be just as happy if they won it in November. I don't think the feelings of kids should determine the course of action adults take. I'm sure those kids would have been beaming even more if it were announced no math of foreign language in the high school.
My main concern is not perilous road conditions, it overextended seasons which can lead to serious injuries and take away from other sports. And if you don't think football can lead to serious injuries, you haven't been reading. It's a grave concern and when high school kids are playing more games than the colleges and almost as many as the pros, something is seriously out of whack.
And for the record, I did not say I was opposed to the PIAA having playoffs. -- Bob Smizik
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written by AZburgher, December 17, 2010 - 07:45 AM
Did anybody ask the kids if they mind playing? I certainly wouldnt mind playing as I sit here an older guy..What I wouldnt give for one more Friday night...
C'mon man! You are only young once and the time you get to play is very short. Every study I ever read says kids do better when they are involved and I have no problem with football being king...
What? They should sit on their kiesters eating Doritos and play video games? Anyone actually on this blog that WOULD'NT want to be playing?
Turn in your keyboard!
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written by Nutting Hostage, December 17, 2010 - 07:50 AM

Fat Jimmy,

Bob is also against Bert Blyleven and I suspect all Dutch people.

smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by JimmyC, December 17, 2010 - 07:53 AM
This is just one of the uglier aspects of a world focused on players between 14 and 22-years old. Consider the people who follow the recruitment of players for college.

Now the coaches are doing a job and many are committed to a craft and the pursuit of excellence. While doing that they offer kids opportunities and entrance into a world that many otherwise would never have. I think a coach from Iowa roaming the backwoods of Alabama, Georgia and Florida searching for players is motivated by something other than power and money.

It's the people who follow high school recruiting. The so-called recruiting experts, bloggers, commentators, fans who make me as uneasy.

When you realize that their obsession is 15 -16 - 17-year old boys; the whole thing creepy. It can't be healthy. Grown men knowing all kinds of personal data about a 17-year old makes me think we've crossed a line somewhere.
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written by Meathead, December 17, 2010 - 07:54 AM
Al Bundy loves the PIAA
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written by lea4137, December 17, 2010 - 07:59 AM
Trust me the kids playing are having the time of their lives....Playing for a state title a week before Christmas. On a snow covered field in PA. What else could you ask for..... These kids will remember this the rest of their lives.... Gardner Points to decide a champion, what is this the BCS...

If you want to shorten the season go to five classes...That would shave two weeks of the season...
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written by lordbyron, December 17, 2010 - 08:01 AM

Amen - well said, Bob.
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written by Nutting Hostage, December 17, 2010 - 08:01 AM

When you realize that their obsession is 15 -16 - 17-year old boys; the whole thing creepy.


I didn't play football, but I did play Pony, Colt, and High School baseball and I can still recall how odd I thought it was at the time that grown men were so involved and took a game with teenagers so seriously. It always seemed to me like they thought they were the next Joe Torre or Bobby Cox and that the game was about them, and not the actual kids that were playing.
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written by Fat Jimmy, December 17, 2010 - 08:25 AM
My main concern is not perilous road conditions, it overextended seasons which can lead to serious injuries and take away from other sports. And if you don't think football can lead to serious injuries, you haven't been reading.


Bob, I'm well aware of the growing concerns of football-related injuries. What I am unaware of is any research that suggests that a defined number of games/practices results in said injuries.

If your general concern is that "more games = more injuries", then -- by that logic -- shouldn't the PIAA cut back its season to 6 games?

And, shouldn't the PIAA ban players from participating in more than one sport? While basketball doesn't represent the concussion risk football does, basketball can be just -- if not more -- damaging to young knees and ankles and other joints. Why are four additional football games for dozens of high schoolers concerning, but the thousands of Pennsylvania high schoolers who play football AND basketball (and/or wrestling/baseball/tennis/etc.) not concerning?

Seems to me that the 4 month basketball season would create more injury risks to dual-football players than a 4-week playoff.
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written by Meathead, December 17, 2010 - 08:47 AM
Not all players on a high school football team are as gung ho as others. There are a few that have had enough by this point. Let's face it, if you asked high school kids some would also like to stay out all night, drink beer, smoke dope, drive fast, etc., etc., etc. Should they be allowed to do that because that's what they want to do and it would be the time of their lives? Parents, teachers, school administrators and regular adults should step in and stop this nonsense.
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written by Fat Jimmy, December 17, 2010 - 08:55 AM
Should they be allowed to do that because that's what they want to do and it would be the time of their lives? Parents, teachers, school administrators and regular adults should step in and stop this nonsense.


The kids want it.

The parents want it.

The administrators want it.

Basically all of the people who have a real say in high schoolers' lives are for it.

So they should make changes because a bunch of old men on a blog -- with no discernable ties to these kids -- think there should be a change?


You've polled the kids, the parents and the administrators? Remarkable work being in North Carolina.
I made my statement to you and don't care to get into a back and forth. I will allow Meathead's comment above stand for me. -- Bob Smizik
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written by SteelerMark, December 17, 2010 - 09:00 AM

Sorry to be rude, but this is breaking news:

BA ADMITS- HAS BEEN BLOWING IT (for two seasons now)

The Steelers rank 27th in the NFL, scoring touchdowns just 44.4 percent of the time once they pull inside the opponent's 20.

"B.A. and I talked about it a little bit the other day," Roethlisberger said. "I think we both had the same mindset; you get down there and it's 'how can we score on this play?' "

Instead of trying to get it all on first down, they plan to take a different approach.

"We're trying to take the mentality of not trying to score every time," Roethlisberger said. "You know, you get down there and you almost get greedy -- score, score, score, score -- where maybe it's better to take the 5-yard route, put yourself in second-and-5 and now you can run the ball, and, if you get 1 or 2 yards, you're in third-and-short."

Against Cincinnati, the Steelers had first downs at the Bengals' 5 once and at the 9 another time and settled for field goals. They reached the Bengals' 15 on another occasion and punted after going backward. In Baltimore the previous week, they had a first down at the 2 and wound up kicking a field goal.

"Our first-and-10 passing has not been very good," Arians noted. "It's probably a little bit of my fault going for the end zone too much instead of going for a couple short ones."

That was one of two areas Arians mentioned that have failed the Steelers in the red zone. He called the team's running game inside the 20 "poor."

"We're averaging about 1.5 a carry from the 20 down," Arians said. "Actually in our goal-line offense, we've been very, very good; it's just we don't get in there often."

Arians blamed the blocking and not halfback Rashard Mendenhall for the inability to run effectively in the red zone.

"It's not him. We have to block better. It's normal this time of the year. About everything you do is on tape; you're not going to surprise anybody with very many new things. You got to block 'em and make people miss."

The Steelers have cracked the 20 36 times and come away with 16 touchdowns and 16 field goals. It has become exasperating for them recently because the offense has managed just one touchdown in the past 11 quarters, on a 9-yard drive to beat Baltimore after Troy Polamalu created a turnover.

"We want to score touchdowns,'' coach Mike Tomlin proclaimed this week. "In the recent past, we haven't done as well as we'd like. There are a myriad of reasons, usually centered around execution and detail. We're going to work toward getting better this week ... we're not executing in that area to our liking because we're not executing in that area to our liking."
_____________________________________________________

LOL!!!

Hey coaches, keep up the good work. Your only about two years behind most of us.

Let me give you another clue. There is a guy nick named "Redzone" on the team. You might want to put him behind Johnson (Legursky). It will shock you how much better "the blocking" suddenly gets.

I'll take 1% of $4 million for that brilliant piece of coaching advice. LOL!!!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!



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written by PiratesFanSince1960, December 17, 2010 - 09:03 AM
My high school is in Calfornia State championship for the 2nd time in past 8 years, D1.... Which is beyond difficult for public schools in California. Another story....
1) Is this not what a lot of people want with the College playoffs? Will they not last till June or something smilies/grin.gif

2) It is having a huge impact on our wrestling program. We are losing guys coming back from for their junior year having played football from August to December. Not in wrestling shape, tired from that season, and not motivated as in previous years.

No opinion here. Just noting the fact that this very long high school season is a impact in high school as most kids did two sports in my day. Wrestling cannot be your second sport its too hard and the losing is harder as its just you losing a lone smilies/cheesy.gif Laughing but its damn true....
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written by Fat Jimmy, December 17, 2010 - 09:05 AM
You've polled the kids, the parents and the administrators? Remarkable work being in North Carolina.


Yup, Bob. They've got this thing called the Internet now. You don't have to stand outside with a clipboard and a pencil to administer a survey.smilies/cheesy.gif


Good. I'd like to see the breakdown on parents in Pennsylvania in Allegheny and Fayette counties. -- Bob Smizik
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written by CliveJameson, December 17, 2010 - 09:27 AM
I agree with two sentiments expressed in the blog. First, that there is an overemphasis on highschool sports, particularly football.

Second, that playing 15 games seems excessive.

However, the charge that the PIAA have "lost sight of the purpose of high school sports" is off-base.

The comparison was made to Ohio, whose championship has concluded. A quick search showed Ohio teams play as many games as Pennsylvania.

So that comparison is lost on me.

The assertion is made that the PIAA seems hungry for gate revenue, but that is unsubstantiated as well. Are the tickets expensive? does the revenue goto the PIAA? Is the revenue considerable?

I genuinely think the comment about the PIAA is out of line.


Because Ohio plays the same number of games as Pa. does not necessarily mean Pa. admininistrators haven't lost their way. It may only mean that Ohio administrators also have lost their way.
High school teams shouldn't be playing more games than Alabama, Ohio State, etc. etc. --- Bob Smizik
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written by CliveJameson, December 17, 2010 - 09:44 AM

A quick tour around the Internet.

Games Played Including Champions
(but not scrimmages)
Virginia.......16 games
Ohio...........15 games
Indiana........14 games
West Virginia..14 games
Maryland.......14 games
New York.......12 games
New Jersey.....12 games
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written by CliveJameson, December 17, 2010 - 10:04 AM
Because Ohio plays the same number of games as Pa. does not necessarily mean Pa. admininistrators haven't lost their way


I honestly think that the burden of proof is to demonstrate that the PIAA have lost their way. I am sorry, but I do not think it has demonstrated in any manner. And the charge being levied is quite harsh.

The PIAA is similar to Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, West Virgina, and Maryland.

High school teams shouldn't be playing more games than Alabama, Ohio State, etc. etc.

The average SEC and Big 10 team will play 13 games.

I think you have a bold assertion (with which I am inclined to agree, in part) but little support.

However, in the spirit of providing better ammunition and keeping our powder dry I will do a little more poking around at lunch. I honestly don't remember playing anywhere near this many games in high school.


Clive: Is the fact tiny Clairton High School is playing its 18th game today (including two scrimmages), which is FIVE more than the collegiate national champion will play, not an indication to you that the high school administrators have lost their way? -- Bob Smizik
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written by AZburgher, December 17, 2010 - 10:23 AM
Someone show me undeniable evidence that this is bad for kids...Any evidence...
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written by AHaberman35, December 17, 2010 - 10:25 AM
Shortening the WPIAL playoff portion or regular season seems unlikely. Its just too important in Western Pa.

I played soccer in high school. My senior year we lost in the WPIAL semis. Three teams made the state tourney so we still had a shot. We were so devastated about not winning WPIAL that we did not care. I remember very little emotion or energy when we lost the consolation game.

I've been gone a long time so my understanding may be out of date. As I recall there really was no WPIAL championship equivalent elsewhere. The rest of the state cares about winning the state. Hard to have balance when one quarter of the state puts so much focus on the local championship.
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written by CliveJameson, December 17, 2010 - 10:47 AM
Clive: Is the fact tiny Clairton High School is playing its 18th game today (including two scrimmages), which is FIVE more than the collegiate national champion will play, not an indication to you that the high school administrators have lost their way? -- Bob Smizik


Honest to god, Bob, I am not trying to be argumentative. Clairton is a good example. How often have we heard the difficulties rookies have adjusting to the long NFL season from college?

Clearly, Clairton is preparing its players for future NFL stardom (note sarcasm).

I would add the NFL argues their age restriction rationalizing that younger players are not ready for the demands of the game. This seems incongruous with any of the states having schools play as many as 16 games.

But ... (and here is the counterpoint) ... most of the PIAA championship schools play 15 games.

They have been playing that many since 1990.

The scrimmages are new this year, right? Adding the scrimmages, allowing pre-season contact with pads and contemplating spring practice ... the burden of proof should be with the PIAA to demonstrate that this is reasonable to the health of the kids.
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written by CliveJameson, December 17, 2010 - 10:49 AM
Someone show me undeniable evidence that this is bad for kids...Any evidence...


I think that rationale is backwards. If the PIAA is adding, the burden of proof is to demonstrate that adding is safe.

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written by Meathead, December 17, 2010 - 11:08 AM
Clairton is playing its 16th game in 16 weeks. I'm guessing many of those kids play both ways. How many NFL players do that? That's a lot of helmet to helmet contact. There's damage being done.
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written by PiratesFanSince1960, December 17, 2010 - 11:23 AM
One defense, who knew they were going to win so many games in advance, that they play 18 games or into December? Only a few teams get this far...
Calif state wrestling there is a 28 match limit (approx) prior to the Nor Calif tournament, if you place in top 3 go to state. That is another 5-7 matches over 2 days to place in medal top 6. So sometimes kids don't wrestle at some tournaments to ensure eligibility. The coaches have this info wired and so do their opponents hahahaha. Football is different I realize as a team sport, ya gotta play. 15-18 games is a lot for anyone. The practice times are enormous. Mon-friday 3pm-6pm-ish Sept-Dec.... Home, eat, then study??? Then what about those players who have another sport in the winter? But alas I mentioned this and another tale smilies/grin.gif
cheers
David
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written by Brashear99, December 17, 2010 - 11:31 AM
My nephew plays for a WPIAL team & was actually hoping to lose the regular season finale so his team would not make the WPIAL playoffs. He was sick of playing football. A sentiment shared by others. That was after 2 scrimmages & 9 games. It is ridiculous that 1 of his opponents will be playing tomorrow for a state title. That's another 7 games. Utterly ridiculous. Frankly I was pretty sick of traveling to all of the away games. It's bad enough the WPIAL is now extending to places like Altoona & Erie, the neutral site games of the PIAA playoffs make it that much worse. It's time to scale it back
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written by JimmyC, December 17, 2010 - 12:53 PM
I love this blog. Thank you, Bob.
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written by PiratesFanSince1960, December 17, 2010 - 02:29 PM
Another thought.... When the team is winning, when you are in the hunt for the #1 spot week in and week out. Most likely your team players are not getting hurt, tired, or want the season to end. Its a great a natural high as one can get.... But agree, 16 games is a lot for most high school kids. Especially if their wrestling coach is waiting for em!!! smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif
cheers
David
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written by bmill25, December 17, 2010 - 11:08 PM
Frostbite? Seriously? I'm sure no one has ever gotten frostbite from going to a game. And a snow problem? Sure its a possibility, but noone is holding a gun to your head to make you drive in a blizzard to a game.
How about we do things your way. No state championship game, no playoff, no scrimmages, and just for good measure........no high school sports. Instead lets get all the kids who would be playing or attending friday night games and let them roam around on the streets in groups of their friends.....oh yeah, we already have some of that. They're called GANGS!!! Maybe you should quit blogging (is that what this is?) and go picket outside of the state championship games. Your truly, Brian Miller

PS. I hope you have a male child that is the greatest football athelete of the last 100 years. It would be interesting to see if you allow him to play in mid-December.
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written by Meathead, December 18, 2010 - 06:22 AM
A special thanks to bmill25 for providing proof that sixteen weeks of high school football is too much.
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written by Pghbythecactus, December 19, 2010 - 06:43 AM
As someone who has played in the WPIAL, in the PAC and also has spent a great deal of time around prep sports in the Southwest, this post is in my wheelhouse.

Because of weather, prep football in PA should start a week earlier. Other than that ... I have no problem with the number of games played. Just make sure all playoff games in Dec. are on an artificial surface to make things fair.

That being said, could they make some changes that would help? Sure they could. But I can tell you PA has nothing on Texas when it comes to letting too many teams into the playoffs.

Also: The PIAA and WPIAL aren't getting rich off of gate receipts, but like anything else they need money to make the organization work. Gate money is more than just a drop in the bucket, but it is not the deciding factor on how long the playoffs run. I guarantee you it is not nearly as much of a driving force as administrators and parents who want all of their kids (players, cheerleaders, band members, mascots, etc.) to get the opportunity to experience the playoffs.

In Texas, the UIL (the state's version of the PIAA) expanded the high school football playoffs in the past five years. The UIL didn't make that decision by itself. It was put to a vote by administrators (usually HS principals) around the state and they overwhelmingly voted in favor of adding games because they wanted more kids to get the chance to be part of the playoffs. Like any politicos, that's what their constituents wanted, and they delivered.

Naturally, coaches liked it too. If you finish fourth in your district and make the playoffs, there's much less heat on you than if you'd finished fourth in a district where only the top two teams make the playoffs. There are a lot more happy people that way. Is that so bad? Depends on one's perspective, I guess.

The money aspect of prep sports in someplace like Texas or Louisiana or Oklahoma is different from PA. The reason is proximity to pro and college sports. In Oklahoma and Texas and Louisiana, some of the rivalry games, say Jenks vs. Union in Tulsa, create a gate so big that it is factored into the yearly budget. If you host a game in a city of 90,000 people, like in Odessa, and 30,000-plus show up -- every year -- you are operating an athletic budget on a different level than what you see at most, if not all, PA schools. It's just a different animal. Not better football, necessarily, but just a higher level of interest among the population for high school athletics. Again, that's good and bad.

Allow me to make another comparison to Texas, which has more kids and schools playing football than any other state: It wasn't that long ago that only one team from each district in Texas made the playoffs. Problem was you left out a lot of good teams, and in some cases you had two teams good enough to win state meeting in the second or third round. That was a problem, most people agreed. So they added teams and added more and finally added some more. The result is a watered-down system, but a system that a whole lot of people get to take part in. Nobody is complaining, outside the media, that's for sure. And the first year they expanded the 5A playoffs a fourth-place team from a Metroplex district that had suffered through early-season injuries rallied to make the state championship. That shut up the naysayers.

Now, as for the case for cutting back: Not a lot of people in this camp, but there is one very important group setting up shop here: bean counters. The economy is a factor like never before.
Administrators have tighter budgets than ever and can't afford to spend willy-nilly on athletics like they once might have.

In PA, travel is barely an inconvenience compared to Texas and New Mexico, where it is not uncommon for district games in some parts of the state to require a three or four hour bus ride. It's not uncommon for seven and nine hour bus trips (in West Texas) for a team willing to risk a coin flip to host a playoff game (imagine teams from Pittsburgh and Wilkes Barre flipping a coin to see who would host a game). It costs money to send those buses out there, to feed all the players and trainers and cheerleaders. And there's the consideration of missing some school. Again, it costs a lot more than it used to, and funds are tighter than they used to be. That's the only thing I can see that would force school districts ever to cut back -- or to have them pressure their state association to cut back -- on playoffs.

Personally, I think all of these states should cut back to some degree to improve the overall quality of the teams in the playoffs and to save money. But what it would do is cut a whole lot of people out of the playoff picture. I'm not betting on that happening.
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written by RJB, December 21, 2010 - 03:42 PM
This is a great topic. Unfortunately, this proliferation of playoff games in high school is part of the "everybody deserves a trophy" mentality. I grew up and played HS football in Ohio. In Ohio there are approximatley 720 high schools playing football and they are divided into six divisions broken down into four regions. Currently, 192 teams or 32 teams from each divison make the playoffs. This breaks down to eight teams per region. In 1983 there were only four divisions with four regions in each and you had to win the region to make the playoffs. This meant that only 16 teams in the entire state made the playoffs. The max # of playoff games would be 2 if you won the state title. I know that 192 is too many as evidenced by first round results in the Ohio playoffs and 16 probably was not enough. Cutting back on the # of teams would enhance the quality of play and take a game or two off the total.

As far as PA goes the problem lies with the WPIAL. When PA started a state championship tournament the PIAA should have dictated that the WPIAL will conform and not hold the rest of the state hostage from a scheduling standpoint. If you want to determine a conference champion look to the Ohio Valley Athletic Conference in nearby Ohio and West Virginia. It is done on a point system. The major focus of those teams is their respective state playoffs and not a conference championship. I just don't understand how PA has been so out of whack on this issue. Once the PIAA gets the WPIAL in line they should look to Ohio for how playoff participants are chosen. The Harbin System was developed in the early 1970's. A team is awarded points for who they beat and who their opponents beat. It is fair and unbiased. Teams are rewarded for playing tough schedules. I know the WPIAL football championships are a sacred cow but the only constant in life is change.

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