My first instinct was to say, "unbelievable!" Then i remembered that the story was about the Pirates....so this is par for course for the best management team in all of sports. So i guess the attendance to watch a poor AAA team 81 games a season isn't good enough for them. Now it is asked of us to come more often for what? So that they will put a competitive AAA team on the field?

What a shocking development! How completely surprising! I am at a loss for words --NOT!

So, let me get this straight, the Family Nutting serves us crap for years. Now they say -- trust us, spend more money and we will give you a contender. (And make no mistake -- Papa Scrooge [Ogden Nutting] has been calling the shots long before he got his hands on a majority share.)

The Nuttings made a huge mistake not selling to Burkle/Lemieux. The fans have had enough and won't turn out unless there is a winner on the field. In order to attract decent players to the Pirates, Nutting will have to OVERPAY -- since the organization is so awful and has such a bad reputation. But, Scrooge Junior won't cough up the cash unless the fans turn out. Sounds like a downward spiral to me.

These guys are the most clueless, ham-fisted, ignorant, incompetent fools in all of sports. The only thing interesting about the Pirates this season will be watching what remains of the franchise implode.

The Pirates are probably the only team in the league that receives money from the MLB television contract that does not ever appear in a nationally televised game. If MLB, Fox, ESPN, and TBS feel that the Pirates are such an inferior team that they cannot even risk nationally televising one Pirates game, how can the owners expect the fans to start packing the house? I'm wondering if Barney Dreyfuss demanded that more fans show up to games before he fielded a competitive team or built Forbes Field?

The Onion couldn't make this stuff up.
Hey Frank, I was a dog at your dinner table but I'm done now.
You just lost me and my family and our seven to ten games a year.
Your attitude reflects your incompetence.
If there was any doubt about you and who you represent being losers with unmitigated gall you certainly have erased it.
So long.

Hey Frank, give us our money back for the stadium we built you so we can fix our roads & trim the city's deficit. If you do that we will come watch the pathetic excuse for a baseball team you put out on OUR field every year. If you don't like it, please, do everyone a favor & SELL!

The Pirates idea of money well spent

Normally, I defend the front office of the Pirates, because I definately believe what they're doing is the right thing (although I'm as concerned about how they go about evaluating talent as the next guy.) But this...

If there was a gang that couldn't shoot straight in terms of media and public relations, I think they'd be the poster boys. It's MIND BOGGLING...

How do you, as the VP of Relations for the Pirates, let these guys get up there and provide obviously written responses to a blog that's given them the questions prior to the interview, and be SO BAD? NO ONE talks like that. It's impossible. Someone's gotta fall on their sword and say, "Bob, Frank, you can fire me for saying this, but just shut up before you talk to me!"

Mr. Connelly, Mr. Nutting, please do it on video. At least then, you can say you were answering off the top of your head. It might be... Well, not for the fans, but it might be excusable then.

That was so bad it made Rodger Goodell and Gary Bettman look like media geniuses...

NoYinzer

Just another case of open mouth, insert foot. Leadership starts at the top....if this is the kind of leadership the Pirates have, Coonelly needs to resign immediately (fat chance). Just when you think it can't get any worse, someone else opens their mouth and more nonsense comes out. Truely disturbing!

Coonelly's stupid, arrogant remark reminds me of how Woody Allen's character in the movie Annie Hall opens that movie,looking into the camera:

"There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." "

That is the just like the baseball Nutting/Coonelly/Huntington serve up at PNC Park.

Bob - I think it is time, once again, for the P-G's editorial board to ask that the Pirates be sold.

I think that we all just need to face facts ... the Nuttings simply own the Pirates to make a profit ... under normal business circumstances, that is acceptable, but in the circumstances where the Nuttings have been gifted an awesome stadium and millions of dollars in revenue sharing IT IS NOT ... however until the city of Pittsburgh and other MLB owners stand up to the Nuttings, they will continue to milk the franchise for $$$$'s ... Europe has a good solution for this problem, that being RELEGATION, in almost all sports/leagues, the bottom 2-3 teams EACH YEAR would be relegated (moved down) to AAA baseball and the best 2-3 teams from AAA move up to the Bigs ... in the absence of relegation and the presence of owners like the Nuttings, MLB needs to stand strong and make the Nuttings spend or sell the team or other profit driven owners will follow suit and ruin baseball ...

"So Sad" to see a team with there history, being the laughstock of every sport joke inregard to losing.
If Nutting and his puppets aren't happy with the attentence sell the team.

PITTSBURGH PIRATE FANS INVADE WHEELING

Fans of the Pittsburgh Pirates, fed up with 18 years of losing with no end in sight, have apparently started a people power uprising similar to those in the Middle East to rid themselves of cheapskate owner Robert Nutting, team buffoon Frank Coonelly and pretend general manager Neal Huntington.

"Enough's enough! We want democracy. We want freedom. We want a .400 winning percentage" said a man who only identified himself as Nutting Hostage.



While Pirates fans would love to do this to Robert Nutting's home town -- they're only resorting to stuffing up toilets, lighting firecrackers in sewers and stealing every Ogden Newspaper vending machine in sight.

Apparently when incited the invasion was team buffoon Frank Coonelly saying "we're not spending any more money until more fans show up." Apparently this snapped western Pennsylvania sports fans out of their passive funk -- induced by cheap beer, fireworks, bad music and bobblehead giveaways.

Stay tuned for further developments.

In Bob's Coonelly thread 2 days ago, I called Coonelly the worst team President in the history of sports. I may have been to soft in my criticism !!!

This is the same "in your face" attitude that has been prevalent for the past 7 years. Trade good players for prospects and a pine tar rag, lie about almost everything (contract extensions, amount of profits, etc.), and now this.

But there are enough Apologists that will continue to either defend Nutting/Coonelly/Huntington and their practices, or just dont care, and will continue to show up to taxpayer-funded PNC Park for the corndogs and orange pop. Truly pathetic.

This is the main problem I have with the Pro-Nutters. Not that they are hopeful for the Pirates future........ I am hopeful for the Pirates future also. I have a problem with how the Pro-Nutters defend this regime and their words and actions. Iam sure there will be some posters on here today that will say that Connelly's statements are no big deal, and we are over-reacting.

As long as people allow these a**clowns to get away with this stuff, they will. And there are no bigger a**clowns than Nutting/Coonelly/Huntington. What a pathetic joke that has been foisted upon the Pirate fans.

Enjoy the corndogs folks---- and make sure you buy more so Uncle Frank can THEN spend more money on payroll !!!!!!!

Well, that guarantees that I will not be attending any Pirates games until this scumbag owner and his pathetic front office are gone! What amazes me is why MLB puts up with this garbage. This is just embarrassing to the entire league to have such an inept franchise that does nothing but alienate its fan base. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though, considering the "commissioner" of MLB is that used-car salesman Bud Selig.

Does this mean the Bucs will not be in the running for signing Albert Pujols when he becomes a free agent?

Uhhh, Burgher, isn't that a little over the top?

I like sarcasm and satire as much as the next guy, but there are actually people dying for something over there in the Middle East (and not just American Soldiers) that's a little more important than weather or not their baseball team has lost more than they've won for 18 years..

This is just a baseball team... I think we need to get a little perspective...

NoYinzer

Relegation would cure MLB of deadbeat teams like the Pirates and Royals. Unfortunately they use a franchise model making it impossible. I'm not a soccer fan at all, but relegation is what makes European soccer leagues so interesting.Even for non-competitive teams.

BayouHoward wrote:
Does this mean the Bucs will not be in the running for signing Albert Pujols when he becomes a free agent?
-----------------------------------------------

Well, aparently the Cardinals won't be either, so the Pirates will be in good company...

NoYinzer

Which statement is dumber?

CEO of oil giant BP, Tony Hayward, upset at the inconvenience caused to him by his company’s devastation of the Gulf of Mexico: "We’re sorry for the massive disruption it’s caused their lives. There’s no one who wants this over more than I do. I would like my life back."

Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake".

Pirates CEO Frank Coonelly: "Today, no but we will be able to support that payroll very soon if our fans believe that we now have a group of players in Pittsburgh and on its way here in the near future that is competitive. We need to take a meaningful step forward in terms of attendance to reach that payroll number while continuing to invest heavily in our future but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track."

I have to give the edge to Tony Hayward, but just barely. Coonelly should take note. Hayward lost his job and Marie Antoinette lost her head.

Once again its spring training and hope springs eternal for all MLB clubs except one . . . Lucy(Pirates ownership) holds the football on the ground just begging Charlie Brown (Pirates fans) to come running full speed to kick the ball (a opossible winning record and maybe even a division lead). Lucy pulls the football away (by May) and Charlie Brown (wearing black and gold) misses the ball, yells UUUGGH, and hits his head. Lucy cashes the $10-20M TV check again and laughs at the idiot fans that have gotten fooled for nearly two decades of this crap-Good grief!

cptantillies wrote:
What amazes me is why MLB puts up with this garbage. This is just embarrassing to the entire league to have such an inept franchise that does nothing but alienate its fan base. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though, considering the "commissioner" of MLB is that used-car salesman Bud Selig
----------------------------------------------

If you check R2D2s hologram:

In the NFL, they're called the Cincinnati Bengals and the Cleveland Browns (and for a long time, they were the Saints and the Bucs..) Before 1972, they were called the Pittsburgh Steelers...


In the NBA, I believe they're called the LA Clippers (did I get that right? I don't follow the NBA, but other than the Washington Generals, I think the Clips were the worst team in the NBA for Generations)

In the NHL, they were the Pittsburgh Penguins until around 1990, then again between 2002 and the lockout and now they're the Toronto Maple Leafs, who have a similar history that the Pirates have...

Someone has to be the worst, and for whatever reason, it's almost impossible to get up off the mat and win a championship. We've been spoiled that two of our teams have done it. THAT'S why we keep 'em and root for 'em.

NoYinzr

No Yinzer -

Actually, the Maple Leafs have a far superior history to the Pirates....

As I have said consistently for years "If you give one dime of revenue to this ownership group you are part of the problem"

I suggest nothing short of a complete boycott of everything PBC related, Nuttig , Coonelly, And Huntington should be booed with vigor any time they appear in public and the media in Pittsburgh needs to grow a pair and take up the attack.

This whole franchise is so rotten form the core that it actually defies belief. They are incompetent, arrogant, unethical, and miserly.

If you support this group you are getting what you deserve.

If nothing else, this should have the opposite effect... everyone just stay home!

The else might be going to the games.. but packing a lunch and refusing to spend a dime on concessions.

Well Bob...I think you summed it all up pretty well.
In the morning....Prepare for a few Pro-Nutters (disguised in Pirate garb) to try to punch holes in everything you said here.
It's a corrupt Regime, and it needed to be ousted years ago.

@Burger in California

I wouldn't call the beer cheap

*t really is hard to believe that educated men could be so clueless. I am at a loss for words.

Lets get Donald Trump and Mark Cubans office addresses from somewhere and Priority Mail them both thousands of signatures saying we want them to buy the team from these clowns...I cant take anymore and I love Baseball and the Bucs but this is insane....

...
As the Great Bugs Bunny once said: "What a maroon!!"

The same guy who has been talking about the Club having the "capacity" to add players is now saying quite the opposite.

The guy who talks about "accountability" is truly making a statement here. And boy, what a statement!

Yes, Pirates fans, Frank Coonelly has determined that WE are to blame for their financial woes. Our unwillingness to pay ANY dollars (or in my case, more dollars) to see Charlie Morton fail or Aki Iwamura flounder or Andy LaRoche fizzle or revel in the 50 different players that appeared on last season's 25 man roster (think about that) is what is holding this club back.

Frank will make a marvelous Commissioner of Baseball when Selig retires.

Jose

A meaningful step forward in attendance? That's an insult to all fans who have paid to see this team play the last 17 years.

How about a meaningful step forward in competence? How about a meaningful step forward in evaluating and developing talent?

On Monday or Tuesday of this week, Bob Nutting said that he listens and hears the complaints of the fans. Hope he's ready for backlash from this one.

...
The PBC should have someone at each turnstile who personally greets and thanks each and every person who comes through the turnstiles to watch this "major league" team.

I am not sure if that greeter should kiss the feet of each person walking through, but Frank's comments make me think that in his world the greeter would berate people for not buying more tickets.

Championship caliber organization, indeed.

Jose

Do Coonelly's comments have the blessing of Nutting?
I mean, we know Nutting wont fire Coonelly. That would mean eating salary for 2 years. No chance.

Will be interesting to see the damage control on this one.

Gonna be an interesting summer folks. Wonder how the people who attended Piratefest in record numers feel about this comment??

This guy can't be serious. He should be in Church every day thanking God that as many fans show up as do, every season.

This ludicrous statement only reaffirms to anyone with any sense that this organization is not at all serious about putting a contending team on the field. They are perfectly satisfied to fill the coffers with the hard earned cash you are paying to watch an inferior team.

It amazes me that these types of statements don't turn off huge numbers of the ticket buying public. Until that happens these clowns will continue to laugh their way to the bank at the expense of their fans.

What Mr. Coonelly really wants is for you to go out and convince your friends and neighbors to buy tickets and go to the games, then they will be able to afford quality players.

Wake up Pirate fans, until you stop buying the tickets, this is the type of ridiculous logic that is going to be thrown in your face. I hate to say it, but you deserve it. Stop buying tickets and supporting this joke of an organization.

TTW........hopefully someone will ask Bob Nwhat Frank meant. Gotta admit that what FC said is troubling.

However, I am sure that FC or BN will dance around this.

Every year Frank says something more ludicrous. As a friend of mine once said "You can't MAKE this stuff up".

.......

After this ridiculous statement every business in Pittsburgh should be looking into who does PR for the Pirates, to be sure they don't hire that firm. With a PR firm or department like that who needs enemies.

If you build a new stadium, they will spend. The stadium was packed for the first several years and we got got nothing in return. Now this. Take a walk off the clemente Bridge Frankie. Go Wild Thing

As much as I hope otherwise, I am extremely confident that Coonelly's monumentally asinine statements will not affect the Pirates very much.

The same crew of "Let's all buy all-you-can-eat tickets and get a bobblehead" people who go to PNC Park now will continue to do so, no matter how many insulting remarks are made by the front office.

The headline should have read: At Last, Coonelly Speaks Truth!

wow...I don't expect much from your readshership, Bob, but I'm very disappointed you'd misinterpret a quote so badly.

You must have missed the part where he said "...but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track.’’

My interpretation is that he is not expecting fans to magically show up to support a perrenial 57 win team (although I'm sure he wouldn't mind if they did). But rather he is expecting fans to show up when they start to be more competitve and win

Coonelly needs to be enrolled in a public relations course down at CCAC in the very near future.

What a clown.

This is amazing- We have total agreement with all the comments. This tells me that he hit a chord that should send a shock wave to Nutting. This management team is so out of touch with it's fan base. Spring training is cause for hope but not with the Pirates. We should be looking at how we compete what new players are coming in and how the young guys improve, but we listen to this from the team president. Wake Up!

After reading this, my first reaction is, "Who is under the microscope for being extended again?". Unbelievable puts it mildly here. We tried to drive out for about 2 games a year, but skipped last year as it seems futile. This doesn't exactly encourage you to reconsider.

The sad truth was if this was the Stillers, Pens, probably even Pitt basketball, the uproar would be defining. Possibly forcing a resignation, but definitely at least an apology. The Bucs dwindling fan base just says, "No surprises here....". Sad.

Similar to Goodell continual missteps, if Selig had best interest of baseball anywhere on his radar, he would be in their face dealing with this at a minimum. Really he would have strongly encouraged looking for a sale of the club some years ago. Yet proof of another inept commish.

Coonelly should be removed of his duties immediately.

And he can take Huntingdon with him.

Whoa now. Hey, we put it on the line for you fans, and you are responded just like we thought you would. Why should we go out and bid for a Cliff Lee or Mark Texeira if the fans cannot be expected to do their part and be patient. All they want is immediate results and instant gratification! That's the way it is in today's society. No one is willing to put in the time.

Sad.

Signed:

BMTIS.

Why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?

Finally an HONEST answer from the BMTIB. The Pirates are cheap and intend to stay cheap. THis vindicates a lot of what several posters have been saying over the years. The bigger concern to me is, when is enough new revenue enough to force real change? Obviously there will never be enough.

Secondly, most all of us have struggled with the what the term "accountability" meant. Now we know, the FANS are accountable TO the BMTIB and not the other way round.

I wonder if Nutting berates 7 Springs snowflakes because 7 Springs is not Aspen.

On another note...slightly more serious. I have not gone to a Pirate game since they drafted Daniel Moskos over Matt Wieters. That was the last straw for me. However, I have been warmed by the latest drafts and was about to come back.

Looks like another summer without PNC Park for me.

Gotta admit, that, upon first blush, I thought FC was being ridiculous again. However, after reading this:
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/02/no-bad-analogies-needed-for-baseball-economics.html#
I may have changed my mind. I wasn't aware that FC was alluding to the models of other small market teams.

Foo

........

This is so typical of how the Pirates operate. They should be groveling at the feet of their loyal fan base and not threatening to raise ticket prices, as they've done,

Bob,
I thought raising ticket prices after the first year in PNC Park (and 100 losses) was a MAJOR mistake by the Pirates. The team isn't much better, but I hardly took it as a THREAT when they said that they would have to raise ticket prices in the near future...after holding the line on prices since 2002. I believe you're being a little dramatic.

Let's see if I can get this link to work this time.

http://www.piratesprospects.co...cs.html#


.........

So basically, they are admitting that they can't afford to field a team in today's MLB's economics and its the fan's fault.

Bob,

Great topic, thanks for posting this. - I have two follow up questions for you:

1. Isn't this an out right admission by the Pirate organization they are reneging on the promise they made to the baseball fans and tax payers of this region when they were soliciting support for a publically funded ballpark?

You wrote a great column in May 2005 titled "McClatchy has broken promise to fans" in which you suggested the Pirate ownership group headed by McClatchy at the time, but of which the Nutting family was an influential force, was breaking it's promise to the fans of this region by not putting forth a legitimate attempt at winning. Well isn't Coonelly's recent comments finally a flat out admission, that yes, we as an organization, are breaking that promise?

2. Why are you the only newspaper man in town taking them to task on their ongoing operating methods?

I saw a restaurant pull the same move...told everyone the food will be lousy until more people start eating there.

Didn't work so well.

Pirate fans are involved in a very abusive relationship with that ballclub. Like most victims of abuse, they choose to remain with their abuser.

Blackmail and ultimatums. Really Bob?
I didn't really read it that way.

The guy asked if the Pirates could afford a $70 million dollar payroll today. That would be about a $20 million dollar increase of what the opening day payroll may be. So with a 2010 attendance figure of 1.6 million, FC is saying that they could not afford that payroll with that attendance number. Now people may argue that the team should have the money for a $70 million dollar payroll- it is a fair argument.
But to say that the team is engaging in blackmail and issuing ultimatums is a bit of a stretch.

For those interested in Bob's column from 2005 which in my mind Frank Coonelly just admitted to entirely, and deliberatly true....

Here is an excerpt and link....

Implicit in the construction of what was to become PNC Park was the promise -- made by McClatchy -- that the Pirates would field a competitive team. We heard time and again the new stadium would be a panacea for what ailed baseball in Pittsburgh. The revenue it produced would allow the Pirates to not just compete but to be a contender.

That was a bold-faced lie.

Time and again McClatchy has broken the spirit of the agreement he had with the fans. Not only have we seen nothing but losing baseball, but we've also seen massively disheartening moves that have weakened the franchise.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05121/497197.stm

I've said it before, these clowns should just pick up all their stuff and move! Who needs the kind of garbage they put out there! Its an embarrassment!
Maybe if they moved we could attract someone else in here. You guys should stop covering this team. Don't even waste newspaper space on them. Maybe they'd get the message. More people go? I don't think anyone should go! Find a nice minor league team to support.

NoYinzr wrote:

In the NFL, they're called the Cincinnati Bengals and the Cleveland Browns (and for a long time, they were the Saints and the Bucs..) Before 1972, they were called the Pittsburgh Steelers...


In the NBA, I believe they're called the LA Clippers (did I get that right? I don't follow the NBA, but other than the Washington Generals, I think the Clips were the worst team in the NBA for Generations)

In the NHL, they were the Pittsburgh Penguins until around 1990, then again between 2002 and the lockout and now they're the Toronto Maple Leafs, who have a similar history that the Pirates have...

Someone has to be the worst, and for whatever reason, it's almost impossible to get up off the mat and win a championship. We've been spoiled that two of our teams have done it. THAT'S why we keep 'em and root for 'em.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Cincinnati Bengals - AFC North Champions 2005, 2009
Cleveland Browns - Playoff appearance 2002
LA Clippers - Playoff appearance 2006
Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff appearance 2004

I don't see anything near an 18 year non-playoff appearance gap there.
If you go back far enough, you will find that the Browns were a powerhouse under Paul Brown and the Maple Leafs have won 17 Stanley Cups.

The Florida Marlins entered MLB as an expansion team in 1993, the year after the Pirates were last in the playoffs, and since then have won 2 World Series championships. If an expansion team in MLB can be a winner twice in 18 years, I don't think it is too much to ask that the Pirates at least have a winning season once in 18 years. The truth is that even some of the less-successful franchises you mentioned above have had more success than the Pirates. It isn't all that hard to "get up off the mat", but Pirates ownership has shown no desire to do anything other put money in their own pockets. The desire for winning isn't there.

Nutting, Coonelly and Huntington just don't get it! Coonelly sounds more and more ridiculous every time he speaks - kind of like a poor mans Hank Steinbrenner! The scary thing is Coonelly was a top lieutenant for Selig - in retrospect, I guess that makes sense.

written by Bill, February 24, 2011 - 07:18 AM

This is amazing- We have total agreement with all the comments.

I have to admit: I am STUNNED that the Pro crowd hasn't ginned up some line of hooey that says, "No, no, no! You've got it all wrong! Coonnelly is saying that he adores Pirates fans, and that they are desperately committed to fielding a winning team! You Anti's look for ANY excuse to pile on!"

Maybe they just haven't woken up yet.

Fly a kite, Frank. You haven't been here for the past 18 years. We've supported your failing product for almost 2 decades. Buck up and produce. This has to be the most arrogant front office in sports.

Everytime when I feel FC cannot make a bigger fool of himself, he proves me wrong. Another reason to spend my summer entertainment dollars anywhere but PNC Park.....

Where's leadoff, thundercrack and others to tell us how they have a plan and that there is no proof that these guys wont spend?

Thats about all the proof I needed. I love, I mean love attending baseball games. My tickets for this season are bought and paid for. They will be the last I purchase until a change in ownership is made.

That comment was posted on one of the PG blogs earlier this week and it got me the most fired up, angry, disgusted, and insulted than I have ever been in all the 18 years of losing.
And, as I said the other day, these guys are talking us for fools!
What good is it to draft guys when you have no intention of even buying out some years of arbitration, let alone free agency.
Gee whiz, I can already hear the excuses if by some divine intervention we actually win. "We have internal values that we feel are appropriate regarding Alvarez, Walker, 'Cutch and Tabata and explore all avenues to try to sign these men long term."
Translated: "We didn't draw 4 million fans in order to sign these guys and still make a huge profit."
As I said, FC's comments literally sicken me as it should for every Pirate fan.

Frank Coonelly multiple choice:

A IDIOT a foolish or stupid person

B NUMSKULL a dull or stupid person

C FOOL a person lacking in judgment or prudence

D PHONY intended to deceive or mislead

E CON MAN a person who swindles another by means of a confidence trick

F ALL OF THE ABOVE

Jose Pagan,

Yes, Pirates fans, Frank Coonelly has determined that WE are to blame for their financial woes.

What do you expect from the guy? Seriously?

Dear Frank,

Sign Albert next year, until then I will not spend a penny on the Pirates. Instead of watching the "bigger loser" baseball edition, I will use my money to pay for increased gas prices.

Thank you Frank!

ok so the team can't spend what it currently spends on the amateur draft and also double the payroll without a noticeable increase in attendance. fine. that seems like a reasonable statement of their economic reality. but suggesting that it is the fans' responsibility to help get the team over that hump when they've done nothing but suck for 20 years is absurd and insulting.

but why should we expect anything less from pirate ownership than for them to ask for more welfare for their corporation? when they asked for a stadium "we" gave it to them.

these guys need to either:
1.sell the team. they don't have enough capital to assume the risk of buying the contracts of professional baseball players.

OR

2.become experts at drafting and developing cost-controlled amateurs, and learn how to better market their status as perennial cheapskates ahem, er underdogs

If this isn't a reason to boycott everything Pirates, there will never be a reason. When a FO employee insults/blames the fans for his owner's tight fistedness...that crosses the lines.

Thats about all the proof I needed. I love, I mean love attending baseball games. My tickets for this season are bought and paid for. They will be the last I purchase until a change in ownership is made.

why not sell them?

Let's take this even a step further....

As bad as what FC said in either a fit of honesty or more likely a lapse of continued stupidity...I believe he STILL isn't telling us the real truth...

I firmly believe that even if they do catch lightning in a bottle and their team of rookies and young vets, misfits, dumpster dives and AAAA players somehow play a competitive season (i.e. play better than .500 baseball)...the Nuttings will just milk the increased attendance and accompanying revenues for as long as it lasts and still will never open the wallets to keep or add proven MLB talent.

You see the Nuttings think like another once famous promoter that suckers are born every minute....

Lets not forget where Franks marching orders and budget come from here folks. Big Bob himself. While Frank is arrogant and dumb enough to say this, Nutting and Frank, no dount believe and talk about nonsense such as this.

The thing that got me is the quote pertaining to- "once the fans buy into and believe in what we are doing." Why in the h*ll would anyone with half a brain buy into 299 losses in less than 3 seasons? A minor league system ranked almost identical as it was pre-Best mgt team in sports?

The arrogance is almost unbelieveable and it is "in your face"

I agree with others. If you go, you are part of the problem at this point. If you go, Nutting is basically kicking you in the as* (as you walk through the gates you and I paid for) and saying thankyou.

STAY AWAY, it is the only recourse "we" have, and the only one which might work

Bob:
The only chance Pirate fans have is if Nutting sells the team and new ownership hires competent baseball people to run it. The only chance of that happening is if the media puts enormous pressure on Nutting. Without your brethren in the media putting on a full court press - status quo remains. Problem is that he is part of the media. I'm losing more hope daily.

richie - Sell them or not, the money is already in the Nutting books.

I will enjoy one more season of Sunday afternoons drinking cold beer in the sun, especially since I missed the past 3, but this is the end.

I am predicting Frank Coonelly will not win the Dapper Dan Man of the Year award



-- Bob Smizik

This is the same mentality I've been preaching for 3 years. Come eat at "Joe's Pizza". We have cardboard crust, cheap sauce, and sour, moldy cheese. If you keep coming, and handing us your hard earned money and do this long enough, someday we will provide a better tasting pizza

Nutting is unbelievable. If this doesn't make the concert, bobble-head, pierogi loving crowds stop going nothing will. If he put out a decent product people would come. I used to go to 30 games a year and I won't see another one until the Nutting Regime is a distant memory.


Uh, it was Coonelly who said this. -- Bob Smizik

BFD-

This is the same mentality I've been preaching for 3 years. Come eat at "Joe's Pizza". We have cardboard crust, cheap sauce, and sour, moldy cheese. If you keep coming, and handing us your hard earned money and do this long enough, someday we will provide a better tasting pizza

Worked for Dominoes.

If any of you read the article linked from pirates prospects.com, then I don't understand how you can't see the similarities to the Rays and Brewers climb to a respectable payroll. It's obvious we are all frustrated from the losing, sometimes I wonder if it would matter at all who ran this thing with all the piling on that goes on around here.

Sorry Frank, this doesn't cut the mustard.

I'll put it this way. It's on you and Neal to at least get the team to .500 right now. 81-81. Anything short of that, and you won't see attendance up. Once you get yourself a .500 team in this lousy/awful division, I can almost guarantee an attendance bump. If it doesn't happen after that, then you can blame the fans.

Until then, blame McClatchey, Nutting, yourself, Littlefield, Selig, Steinbrenner, John Russell, Jason Kendall, Kevin Young, or whoever. Keep the fans of this city out of it though. We've seen more consecutive bad baseball than any other franchise in baseball's history.

I haven't thought some of his past comments were out of bounds b/c I took it as the man has confidence. This comment however is way over the top. First of all what fan can trust this management/ownership group? And 2, it doesn't work that way. Pirate fans have shown up big time compared to the product on the field. I am actually so pis-ed right now at that comment I might find me a new team. I have never heard anything like that in my life. "Show up and we'll spend more" come on. Wow. I am flumoxed

And this guy is going to walk around PNC without an escort?
This guy is going to parade around Pittsburgh now like he is one of us? After those remarks?
Is this guy some poster for "The Waste of A Perfectly Good Education"?
Frankie, one mouth, two ears!
Dude...Please go back to New York.
Frankie, I have to say, you wear some nice suits! You got me there buddy...
However, it's the stuffing in your suits that is sadly lacking...
Beyond that, have a nice day!
Go Bucs...

I've frequently called Coonelly "goofy" here, and I stand by that assessment. But I'm cutting him slack on this one because I don't believe that was what he was saying at all:

I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track.

His point was, I believe, that "once we convince our fans" they're on the right track (and the only way to do that is by winning), then attendance will rise, then payroll will rise. It wasn't a "show up or we won't get any better" statement.

Now, it's fair to argue that they could support a $70 million payroll right now, given how much they get in revenue sharing. And it's also fair to insist that they can use the money they've not spent over the last several years to support a $90 million payroll when the time comes. But as for his comments, I don't think it's fair to portray them as blackmail. Could he have said it better? Of course. Did he? Of course not. That's what makes him goofy.

Juniata,

I've frequently referred to Coonelly as phony, disingenuous, and deceitful.

I'm going to stick with that.

Couple the increase in the price of tickets on game day with gas now at $3.35 per gallon and rising and I doubt the Pirates see attendance approaching $1.6 million this year to watch Correia, Cedeno and Diaz.

Nutting heard OVERPAY and instead gave us OVERBAY.

Heinz doesn't make bad ketchup and then tell customers "if you buy more, we will make it better"

This organization is mystifying.

Sorry
Build a competitive team within the context of the game and then more customers will come and may even pay higher prices. IT DOES NOT WORK THE OTHER WAY!! You are arrogant, clueless, uninformed about how to run a baseball team in 2011 and full of yourself. If Minnesota, TampaBay and Oakland can do it, so can Pittsburgh. Our ownership and management are obviously unqualified and are just not "smart" about what needs to be done -- plain and simple.
I live in Detroit and I have witnessed first hand what Matt Millen and his Cronies did to destroy the Detroit Lions as a result of poor and stupid decisions. Since they have decided to take a more "football-wise" set of decisions,they have improved, albeit slowly butimproved nonetheless.
We are getting worse.

WE ARE FAMILY!!!!

let's buy back our team. Who is with me?

I agree with you Thundercrack and I also think that some of the comments here including Bob's are over the top. I don't think Frank is blaming fans and as I've tried to convey in the past from examining the financial statements, the financial situation isn't very good and they've had to borrow again just over a year ago.

As to Frank's comment, "but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track,’’ my initial and ongoing take is that he means that fans will be convinced when they produce a team that shows much improvement and that's not blaming the fans, that's putting the onus on the team. I put his comment about being on the right track as an at or near .500 team. I don't see anything wrong with his comment here.

But once again, as I've said before, Frank really doesn't communicate well at all. I think he means well and is positive but he really has no handle on how to communicate with the public. So I think he should either be let go or put in the background and let somebody else handle the public relations but as President, that's probably not possible.

Add these remarks to "the best management team in baseball" and "the dynasty". This guy is a total idiot. Just goes to show you that team management and ownership just doesn't get it at all. I refuse to spend money to see this team until Nutting spends some money bringing talent in. Looks like I'll be waiting a long time because I'm obviously a part of the problem. I can't wait for the contracts of Alvarez, McCutchen, and Tabata all come due. They are as good as gone. They'll keep Walker because he's a hometown boy. He'll be the "cornerstone". LOL. This organization is pathetic. JUST SELL THE TEAM NUTTING. Do us all a favor. Your team is a poor representation for this city. Sell it to someone that cares about winning.

I would like someone to provide a quote that shows they promised to field a competitive team if a new ballpark was built.

From my research, all I've ever found is that they said they needed a new ballpark in order to be competitive. That's a different proposition than "promising to be competitive."

There is ZERO room here to misinterpret Franks comments.

Come to the ball park and watch our crappy product then maybe payroll will increase.
Believe we know what we are doing despite everything pointing to the fact that we are buffoons.

Anyone who tries is simply making excuses for the incompetence once again. One has to wonder why at this point anyone would/could do so……..

Like the ship's captain saying "Daily flogging of the men will continue until morale improves".

Juniatakid,

Great post at 8:38.

Oh good, 21sthebest is here to tell us we're all wrong in his usual condescending way.


I have to go to one game this year (1st in 3 years) because my daughter's choir is singing the national anthem. So there will be a few extra tickets bought by me and my family. I really didn't want to help in FC's quest, I'm sorry.


I did not consider his comments condescending. --- Bob Smizik

8:38 post. Yeah it was good. We all have the blackmail reaction...but that's the kind of attitude we Pirate fans have after all these years of crap.

*t is alarming to me that some have posted they may find a new team to root for.
There are no other teams!
I am just going to outlast this ownership group by making a deal with the Devil if need be!
I put a Diamondbacks hat on once and it felt like my hair was on fire.
There are no other teams!
I appreciate the fact that Bucco Brass can't even TALK a good game. These guys can't even keep their lies straight among themselves.
But I am a Pirate fan. To me it's a birthright. You win some and you lose some along the way. Once when I was younger I read a book about Willie Stargell. You know the type of book. Pulpy and kind of a general overview of his life to that point. In that book Willie said its crucial to accept the ups and downs of life. The quote was "Accept the bitter with the sweet". Sticks with me to this day. Simple and truthful.
Willie, wheres the sweet?
And I wonder what these guys would have traded Willie for? Junk bonds and a time share?
Go Bucs...And sorry for the rant.

In the words of Dave Chappelle..."Dave, I'm gonna race 'em"

Mr. C, while not as smooth as Mr. C the Slide Man, is simply saying that the fans will be convinced once the talent proves itself as worthy. Seems neccessary to read between the lines a bit...not the most graceful way to say that he thinks the fans will return once the young talent wins some games, and at that point in time you will see our payroll rise because of longterm extensions and possible free agent signings that want to come to a winning ball club.

We pirates fans who can't abstain from following the games must limit it to 104.7 fm or ROOT (FSN). We must boycot PNC Park in hopes that Nutting wil throw in the towel and sell to Mario and Burkle. Go Buccos ! We're behind you alllll the way.

I'm not really sure how anybody can support these idiots. Its really such a sad situation that its laughable. I've completely boycotted the Pirates until the league is either setup fairly or the Pirates are bought up by somebody willing and able to pay for a competitive team OR knows how to actually draft and develop talent.

The current crew cannot avoid looking/sounding like total idiots in a webchat.

It doesn't seem like MLB really cares if Pittsburgh is ever competitive again, so I wouldn't hold out on the league getting more fiscally "fair" to all teams regardless of market and I really doubt there are many people willing to come into town and lose money on a baseball team every year.

My verdict remains: "No thanks." These idiotic statements by the Pirates don't upset me anymore, the franchise is currently dead to me. What I find most astonishing is that other people are still buying into this nonsense enough to be hurt by it.

"He" in The Field of Dreams wasnt Shoeless Joe. It was Ray's Dad.

From my research, all I've ever found is that they said they needed a new ballpark in order to be competitive. That's a different proposition than "promising to be competitive."

Well how do you define "competitive", Mr. Smarmy?

Oh good, 21sthebest is here to tell us we're all wrong in his usual condescending way.
He must be on the Pirates payroll.

No, I haven't said anyone is wrong. I just gave my opinion. I could be wrong.

"written by DCULB, February 24, 2011 - 09:09 AM
We pirates fans who can't abstain from following the games must limit it to 104.7 fm or ROOT (FSN). We must boycot PNC Park in hopes that Nutting wil throw in the towel and sell to Mario and Burkle. Go Buccos ! We're behind you alllll the way."

If you really want to protest, dress up as pirates and "argh" at people getting on the ski lifts at 7 Springs.

I've frequently called Coonelly "goofy" here, and I stand by that assessment. But I'm cutting him slack on this one because I don't believe that was what he was saying at all

Well put JuniataKid

Coonelly stays pretty accessible despite the knowledge that his words will most likely be contextually applied to suit the needs of the person making the point. I am doing it right now.

Say what you will now...take your business away if you want, but when it comes down to getting your hands on playoff tickets some sweet sweet October evening in the near future, you will be calling all your connections and scouring the internet hoping to score tickets that have a real barcode at less than 100% mark-up



And what exactly is your definition of ``near future?'' --- Bob Smizik

Well how do you define "competitive", Mr. Smarmy?

Oy vei.

I just don't think what they said constitutes a promise to field a competitive team. Nobody could promise that. All they can do is promise that they'll try. Obviously they've made one poor baseball decision after another. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it on purpose.

Besides, Major League Baseball required a new ballpark as a condition of the sale to McClatchy.

I've enjoyed reading Tim Williams' slap at Bob over on his site. His anti-analogy was even dumber than the original analogy supposedly was.

For the record, I am 89.5% certain that Tim Williams receives financial benefits from the Pittsburgh Pirates. He claims on his "about us" page that he has 3 editors, besides himself. Someone will have to explain how you can have >1,000 page hits a day and afford to have 4 people on the payroll based on blog advertising alone. They should call the site "Pirates Publicist".

I agree that the MLB business model is no an apples-to-apples comparison with business in the normal world. But a few real-world business axioms should apply to the Pirates:

1) Always under promise and over deliver
2) Never sell what you can't deliver
3) The customer is always right

Maybe Coonley misspoke. Maybe he meant to say that -- once the franchise is winning, he knows that fans will show up and they can afford to keep and add the players they need to win a championship.

But that is not what he said. He was holding a winning team as a hostage against the city and fans, saying that they will not do what they need to do until fans show up more.

What a dummy!

Here is the scary part of his comments. Teams can and have won with young players and low payrolls. But the window for success in those models is exceptionally small. If the Pirates were to experience one of those windows suddenly, what if the fan base is slow to respond?

It's been 18 years. Can you double attendence overnight? There are going to be people (like BFD) who will be Doubting Thomas' even after their first winning season. It's going to take a while to convince the full fan base that it's for real.

What if takes too long to wake everyone up? The window is small and the only way to sustain it is to spend money. And Frank has just told us that he won't spend until the fans show up.

If that's the case, we'll be starting the cycle all over again.

Jim - IMO, 299 losses in less than 3 years is definately NOT competitive.

YOu suck Nuttings! GET OUT

SELL


THE


TEAM!!!


MR.NUTTING - WE ALL HATE YOU!!!!
PLEASE GO AWAY.

genosid

If you really want to protest, dress up as pirates and "argh" at people getting on the ski lifts at 7 Springs.

I love the idea, but Bob Nuthouse doesnt allow free speech on his own grounds.

The sad thing is he's right. Pack the park and prove that Nutting won't spend, that's what I've always said. Sounds ridiculous, but hasn't everything else already been tried?

Look at the Cubs. Their fans turn out no matter what.

OK- Putting a corporate suit in charge of the team publicity is just another way these guys don't get it. The performance of the team is bad enough but I can't take these corporate-speak morons (they may not be morons, they may just sound that way)- not just Frank but Neal, and go-along JR did the same thing. Its a relative small point but it seems like a direct poke in the eye every time these guys talk. The history of the Pirates for the past 5 years will contain a small subchapter on how to completely mismanage public statements.

I'm hoping Clint Hurdle proves to be more a plain-speaking jock-type (or at least sound like one). The more this Pirates sound like a corporate business versus a "ball club" the worse they seem. Dump the phony professionalism and Business school lingo and bring in some jocks.

The "0" and the "l" or "I" on the captcha words kept me off for 5 tries

Is this the best that the "Best Management Team in Baseball" can come up with? Perhaps they should spend the yearly $40M in salary tax and $35M in TV money on the player salary budget prior to hammering the fanbase for the "lack of support". If anything, the baseball fans in this town have shown the patience of Jobe during the 18 years this team has been a pathetic excuse for a MLB team.

Part of the blame has to fall at the feet of the King!
King Bud isn't gonna do anything that puts another owner (did I say owner??) in a bad light. He is at the root of the whole problem. It's blatantly obvious that he doesn't give a crap about the on-field product in PGH. That guy needs to go. Any responsible commissioner would have stepped in years ago and demanded a reasonable plan for improvement by the Pirate management. They didn't/haven't, so Nutting and his crew of rump swabs have absolutely no motivation to stop ass raping the people of Pittsburgh.

And they wonder why I refuse to buy any more tickets.

Sell the frigging team and go crawl back into the slime underneath whatever rock you used to call home.

Protest what?

Just don't go. Don't check the scores. Just don't care. I for one will be happy to see shorter lines on "Dollar Dog Night". It will be even better if you stay away for a few months when the winning starts. We will be sure to soak it all in before the sellouts return (not the capacity crowds, just the "protesters" who have abandoned the cause because of a.) the winning or b.) realizing they were never required to show up in the first place)

Protest something reasonable...and then later in the evening cme on down to PNC park and relax with your family while taking in a ball game. Lighten up.

Jim - IMO, 299 losses in less than 3 years is definately NOT competitive.

BFD, I sat in Section 130, Row T, Seat 10 on April 9, 2001 when that ballpark opened. In the 8,100 games since, there hasn't been a meaningful game played. I realize that Mr. Smarmy loves to take long e-mails, parse them and pick at the semantics of one or two words, but how can anyone look at the 8,100 meaningless games played at PNC Park and question whether or not the team was "competitive"? After 10 years, I'd argue that it is fair to question their INTENTIONS for competitiveness!

8,100 meaningless games. And now Frank Coonley tells us that if we don't get our butts in the seats, we'll have 8,100 meaningless more games!

BMTIS!

Well said Jim. I was at that game as well. I have the ticket stub framed, though it is in a box somewhere..... I took it down from the wall about 5 years ago with the rest of my Pirates "stuff".

At this point, anyone defending the madness has to look in the mirror and ask why?
What's in it for them?
Where is any reason for such blind faith?
Are they still defending simply becasue they refuse to admit they are wrong?

Look Folks, Coonelly is going nowhere, Nutting is going nowhere because Coonelly is a Bud Selig Goon right out of the MLB Office. Bud Selig could care less what the Pirates do and if they ever win and will never address Pirates Ownership. The real question is what type of connection is there between Nutting and Selig, is there any?
Baseball will never be right until they get a new commissioner and the Pirates will never be right until they have a new organization from the top down. Baseball should be ashamed of itself ad it has watched one of the preeminent Baseball franchises of all times become a joke. The team that has had Honus Wagner to the Waners to Kiner to Maz to Clemente to Stargell to Bonds now has Charlie Morton and Ronny friggin’ Cedeno!
Contrary to what people think, the Yankees did not do this, the Red Sox did not do this, neither did the Phillies, Dodgers or Cardinals, We did this, the fans of Pittsburgh did this. How you ask, by showing up at the game to enjoy the ambience of PNC park for bobbleheads, fireworks, and concerts!
Give me a break people, quit complaining they don’t win, don't go to the d@mn games anymore, and flood the lines of the Pirates with complaints. Start with Selig and MLB’s phonelines and move Nutting’s and Coonelly’s phone lines. Flood every message board, blog, etc. and call for the Nuttings to sell the team!


The problem is not with the commissioner. Tampa Bay won under hit tenure, so did Florida. The problem is with the Pirates. --- Bob Smizik

I believe Bill Nutting writes the Franks material.
Someone throw him another baby ruth

Any recent robberies at Seven Springs? Nutting looks for as many revenue streams as he can get.

I've been going to Pirate games over 50 years, and to Seven Springs for almost 40 years, and it's maddening, and depressing to see both under the control of these inept, cheap, unprincipled, duplicitous panhandle carpetbaggers. Petty, small -time, third rate buffoons, with no ability to run an organization in a major market. If it wasn't for the largesse of MLB, and those dedicated fans attending Pirate games, these charlatans would be retreating to their lair on the Ohio River, with their tail between their legs.

I agree with you Thundercrack and I also think that some of the comments here including Bob's are over the top. I don't think Frank is blaming fans and as I've tried to convey in the past from examining the financial statements, the financial situation isn't very good and they've had to borrow again just over a year ago.

Oh really genius, then why did they pull there gaming licence application for seven springs in order to keep the Pirates if they're losing money? I asked you this same question during last season and you ignored me. Either answer the question or STFU!!!

The old"chicken or the egg" conundrum.

Best management team in sports.....if by "best" you mean "most punchable."

Pirates prospects: ``Would the Pirates be able to afford a $70M to $80M payroll, in present-day worth, if this current group of players were competitive enough to merit additional outside free agents?’’

Coonelly: ``Today, no, but we will be able to support that payroll very soon if our fans believe that we now have a group of players in Pittsburgh and on its way here in the near future that is competitive. We need to take a meaningful step forward in terms of attendance to reach that payroll number while continuing to invest heavily in our future, but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track.’’



Interpretation: Why would we risk any of our own money to improve the current product? Currently, revenue sharing, tv contracts, and attendance measures have us turning a profit and if not, providing us tax relief. If you want us to extend ourselves - -by increasing the payroll, ensure us that you (the fans) will "cover" the loan (expense) by a. paying higher ticket prices and b. by putting more money in our coffers (attending games). Why would we do anything to put our current comfort (profit) levels at risk?

The Pirates died for me many a year ago.

but how can anyone look at the 8,100 meaningless games played at PNC Park and question whether or not the team was "competitive"?

Talk about parsing. That sentence wins the Parsing Championship.

Oh really genius, then why did they pull there gaming licence application for seven springs in order to keep the Pirates if they're losing money? I asked you this same question during last season and you ignored me. Either answer the question or STFU!!!

Here's the third name caller of the day and why? For having a different opinion. And I'm the condescending one.

I would guess they pulled their gaming license application to keep the Pirates because owning a sports franchise is an excellent long term investment.

I never ignore anyone. If I didn't answer it's because I didn't see the question. It's a relatively easy question to answer so there's no reason to ignore it.

More fail by the Pirates front office. They fail at baseball they fail at public relations. Seems the only thing they don't fail at is making Nutting money. Well again this year they'll get none of mine.

Bob,
Thanks for clarifying that it was Coonley and not Nutting who spoke on this issue. I will await Nuttings retraction or correction of Coonley's comments. I will assume Nutting is in agreement in the absense of a correction. I have a feeling i will be waiting a long time.


I doubt you will hear from Nutting on this. But, as I wrote, he has carefully avoided making a definitive statement on this subject. Coonelly would have been wise to follow Nutting's lead. -- Bob Smizik

A few thoughts:

1--McClatchey did keep his promise in that he DID increase payroll significantly when PNC park was built. McClatchey was over his head and totally dependent on Bonifay, but I think he sincerely wanted to WIN. The Pirates haven't tried to win since FC was hired.

2--I think the only way that Coonelly can redeem himself would be if he came out and admitted that the Pirates management have been actively working to lose games by putting sub-par talent on the field since he took over. That they've sucked on purpose in order to continue to get high draft choices and save up a warchest. I don't believe that's true--I think they've just been grossly incompetent--but if he came out and said this, it would appease a large number of Pirates fans (while outraging many others).

3--Regardless of what you think of NH or FC, the buck stops with Nutting. He signs the checks and that he continues to support FC tells you all you need to know about Nutting's priorities.


Actually, McClatchy was not totally dependent on Bonifay. He had two veteran and smart baseball guys working on the business side: Dick Freeman and Steve Greenberg. --- Bob Smizik

I would guess they pulled their gaming license application to keep the Pirates because owning a sports franchise is an excellent long term investment.

How can it be a excellent long term investment if their losing money 21sthebest. We're talking about a gaming licence for their resort here. that's easily worth a couple hundred million a year.

The problem is with the Pirates. --- Bob Smizik

Amen.

How can it be a excellent long term investment if their losing money 21sthebest.

First of all, my opinion on the "losing money" comment is that they've lost a ton of money up until around 2005, but that as of now since they bought the team in 1996 on a cumulative basis they're at around the breakeven point on profits/losses, but they've also spent money on items that don't get factored into profits such as debt payments and capital expenditures (Dominican facility, etc.). And I base this on my analysis of the 2008 and 2009 financial statements that were released which also suggest serious cash flow issues. They had almost no cash left at the end of 2008 and had to borrow in 2009.

A sports team will generally appreciate in value each year despite a team making profits or losses from annual operations. For example, they bought the team for around $90M in 1996 and recent sales of other teams and valuation models suggest a current value of the team if they were to sell it is near $300M.

They make their money when they sell the team and not from annual operations (annual profits or losses) of the team.

I had the displeasure of having to listen to Coonelly as a guest speaker at an youth banquet in April 2009. He came across as a disingenous used car sales person. Along with the owner and his comments assures me that avoiding their business for the last 7 years was not a mistake.

As much as I like baseball and was a Pirate fan, you can only put up with so much. There are people who post here who cant stand ownership/management, but will still go. I know you like MLB and will justify whatever your reason is for going...but by doing so, you support Nutting & Coonelly.

If this fan can do it, so can you
*************************************
Alberta Sherman (4-4-2010)
Lifelong fan

"This season will mean completely nothing to me. I'm done. They've killed something in me, and I'm done."
When climbing through the Pirates' hierarchy, from prospects to the owner, the highest authority still is the fan. Especially when dealing with a franchise that has known so much failure for so long now, no one has a greater stake -- or greater sway -- than the fan.

And few have made a greater investment than Mrs. Sherman: She is a vibrant, lucid 80 years old, and she was a season-ticket holder from Forbes Field to Three Rivers Stadium to PNC Park, where she held a full-season plan for every game since the latter opened.

This winter, she decided enough was enough: She canceled her season tickets, and she does not expect to attend any games this year.

Thus, for her, 2010 will matter because of how little it will mean.

"Two weeks after they signed Nate McLouth to that contract last year, they invited season-ticket holders to a reception at PNC, and Nate was there," Mrs. Sherman recalled. "He was signing his All-Star jerseys, and they were telling us he was one of the cornerstones of the franchise. That's the word they used: Cornerstone. I told Nate, 'Gee, I hope they don't trade you, too.' He said, 'Oh, they'll never do that.'......

And how many more, like Mrs. Sherman, will look beyond faded memories and, finally, give up hope?

All of that probably can be addressed with one question: How much longer will Pittsburghers, especially those who care deeply about one of the city's most venerable institutions, be waiting until next year?

“We owe it to our management team and staff, the strong supporters in the community and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to continue to pursue it,” Nutting said. If approved, the gaming license is expected to add 355 employees to the payroll of Seven Springs, bringing an additional $126 million per year in revenue to the local economy.

"We did everything that we could to make the proposal work," said Robert Nutting, chief executive officer of Ogden Newspapers and a member of the Pirates' four-man voting board,

"We were unable to come up with a package that fit."

The announcement was surprising, if only because Seven Springs was so far along in the planning process.

The new owners had already designed the $5.4 million parlor, unveiling drawings for an octagon-shaped casino in March. They'd tentatively partnered with Delaware North Cos., a New York hospitality and food service firm that specializes in managing sports venues and racetrack casinos, and announced that the casino would create 350 jobs.

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah
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hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah
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News Flash. California Man dies from laughing
AT the Pittsburgh Pirates Front Office. His final
words to the believers, sweet juice drinkers...
I TOLD YOU SOoooooooooo, sweat silence....

wow, so many good posts almost all of my comments have been said but one is still relevant. Taxpayers money used to build the ballpark proves the axiom that those who work for a living need protection from those who don't.

The Nutting ownership wastes not only tax dollars but also all the goodwill built during the Pirates relationship with Pittsburgh. I may have left town years ago but I'm contemplating a divorce.

A sports team will generally appreciate in value each year despite a team making profits or losses from annual operations. For example, they bought the team for around $90M in 1996 and recent sales of other teams and valuation models suggest a current value of the team if they were to sell it is near $300M.

$300 mil is peanuts compared to what they would have made with a slots parlor at their resort.

but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track.’’

I'm trying to figure out what is so terrible about Coonelly's statement since most people are ignoring the very last part of it. He acknowledges the fans need to be convinced the team is on the right track before attendance increases. What exact form that convincing will take is probably different for each fan. But I think that, almost unanimously, fans will think they're on the right track when victories increase significantly. And I'm sure Coonelly understands that.

Surely he wouldn't expect more fan support simply due to a series of acclaimed high draft picks; or having 10 prospects listed in Baseball America's top 100; or even if, say, Pedro Alvarez hits 37 home runs and has 125 RBIs but the team doesn't win more games.

Those occurrences would not bring higher attendance. Winning more games will.

This is simply much ado about nothing.

1) What is the Toll We Believe in the Front Office saying to this?

2) Maybe we finally hit bottom. No way can Nuthouse not fire Con-Me... I bet even No-Deal Neal is running down the hallway to hide from Con-Me...

I sense something folks. Nobody could possibly keep Con-Me now.... Ship of Clowns, and we been telling the world this for 2 years!!
David

Bob,
You know quite well how I feel about the ownership of the PBC. I ask the following in all seriousness.

You have stated that you go to the games because you enjoy baseball. After the comments from FC that you yourself have called out, will YOU still attend games? Or is this the final straw?

As you have walked the middle most of the time, your answer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


Nothing Coonelly could say will change my enjoyment of a night at a ball park with friends. Yes, I will continue to go to Pirates games. -- Bob Smizik

$300 mil is peanuts compared to what they would have made with a slots parlor at their resort.

Maybe. I know the River Casino in Pittsburgh had financial difficulties for a while. I have no idea how a casino in Seven Springs would do.

Why is this a surprise?

Actually, I think this is a "no duh" comment.

Increase attendance=Increase payroll.

Yes, the FO obviously has screwed up this team, but I dont see what the problem is with his statement.

To me, this goes without saying. Isn't attendance the main source of income for a team?

He acknowledges the fans need to be convinced the team is on the right track before attendance increases. What exact form that convincing will take is probably different for each fan. But I think that, almost unanimously, fans will think they're on the right track when victories increase significantly. And I'm sure Coonelly understands that.

You're being condescending and smarmy.

Here's one way Pirates are attempting to strong arm the fan's wallet. Friends and I planned to attend Opening Day. When my friend tried to buy 3 tickets at Piratefest, she was told "Sold Out" unless she was willing to buy at least a 10-game plan. She and her mom agreed to that and got OD tickets but only after spending 10 times the amount of a ticket. Meanwhile, I was left out in the cold because I live in Virginia and wouldn't/couldn't afford to make 10 separate trips. They claim it's sold out except for standing room. But even this week I went to the website and could have ordered 10-game or longer plans that include opening day. It's sold out, but it isn't sold out. Someone please explain that to me.
I know other pro teams where tickets are in high demand all year long can afford to hold back key games for season ticket holders. But this is the Pirates who have lost 18 straight years and 105 games in 2010. When I bought season tickets for my local AA team this week, I told this story to the ticket manager and his jaw dropped open. He said, "How can the Pirates afford to treat fans like that?"
When you publicly name a date for selling single game tickets and then LIE about a sellout to boost season ticket sales, well, you have truly hit bottom.

Yes, I will continue to go to Pirates games. -- Bob Smizik

So you can look at yourself in the mirror everyday knowing that you're part of the problem?

And what exactly is your definition of ``near future?'' --- Bob Smizik

Same definition as the one Coonelly and Nutting have hanging in the Front Office Board Room

Near Future - KNEE/EAR FEW/CHUR - General term used to avoid conveying any meaningful glimpse into events yet to occur. A transparent term used to contradict oneself for the purpose of shifting answers and blame accordingly. In professional sports the term represents 1 to 20 years.

Seriously Bob, 2 to 3 years. Marked improvement in terms of position players and average pitching this year will provide a little more time for pitching to marinate at the lower levels. I am certainly no expert on the subject, but there are several NCAA World Series contenders that have pitching rotations slightly weaker than expected as a result of the Pirates Overslot Overtures. This is the key being "relevant" beyond July for the Pirates at this point in time.

I believe in the manner in which they've gone after pitching. No overtaxed college arms. No over publicized draft hype. Just a relatively big check for an 18 year old, a now useless ESPN piece documenting the life of a blue chip college baseball prospect and his run up to signing with his college of choice (oops), and a ton of luck to go along with a tone of young pitchers.


I've marked it on my calendar: Pirates in playoffs in two or three years.
Have you taken into consideration the fact that the other teams in the NL Central will not stand idly by, and will spend tens of millions more on payroll, to see this does not happen? --- Bob Smizik

In waht is obviously some glitch witht he PG site I got up thsi morning and had 135 emails imnforming me of every post on this thread. That has never happened before and hopefully is omething I can quickly correct, anyone else experiencing this?
If so any suggestiuons on how to shut it off? I ahve been posting on the PG and PG+ for many years and have changed no optiosn and now this? Please help.


There's a little box beneath where you placed your comments. You probably inadvertently clicked on that. At least, that's been the problem in the past. -- Bob Smizik

They make their money when they sell the team and not from annual operations (annual profits or losses) of the team.

You are forgetting one big thing. Bob Nutting said he wants to keep the Pirates and have his daughters someday run the team. So how is he making any money for himself if he isn't going to sell?
He has made money, is making money, and will be making money in the future while owning the Pirates.

You must have accidently checked the subscribe via email checkbox when you posted. You will only get emails from this thread.

"Say what you will now...take your business away if you want, but when it comes down to getting your hands on playoff tickets some sweet sweet October evening in the near future, you will be calling all your connections and scouring the internet hoping to score tickets that have a real barcode at less than 100% mark-up"
_____________________________________________

Doubtful. Th ePirates aren't making the playoffs any time soon and even in the early 1990's playoff tickets were not hard to get. They didn't sell out most of the games. Granted, the stadium was bigger then, but there are far fewer Pirates fans (and basbeall fans, in general, in Pittsburgh) now than there were 20 years ago. Most die-hard Pirates fans are retired or dead.

You are forgetting one big thing. Bob Nutting said he wants to keep the Pirates and have his daughters someday run the team. So how is he making any money for himself if he isn't going to sell?
He has made money, is making money, and will be making money in the future while owning the Pirates.

Sharky, I've never forgotten the "daughter" comment. Like everything else Nutting says, I always took that comment with a grain of salt.

He's not making money if he doesn't sell. He has said he's not even taking a salary. Maybe he's lying about that, I have no idea. Maybe he's lying about distributions but everything he has said on that front plus my analysis of the financial statements indicates that he hasn't "pocketed" anything and won't until he sells.

I have to agree with what Bob is saying here. Some of the words that come out of this management teams' mouths do make you scratch your head. I am sure what was intended to be said was that if some improvement is shown, and new excitement is generated, then maybe spending can continue upward. But, I am just guessing at this.

One thing that I have to disagree with is that this was a "softball" question. It was a question that should have been asked by the local media. The local media doesn't approach this subject enough. If this was a softball question, the reporters in this town are asking Nerf ball questions.

Nothing Coonelly could say will change my enjoyment of a night at a ball park with friends. Yes, I will continue to go to Pirates games. -- Bob Smizik

You have friends?

Hey Coonelly-- give us a winner first! You've BSed us for far too long. We don't owe you anything!

written by Bipolarman, February 24, 2011 - 11:21 AM



Nothing Coonelly could say will change my enjoyment of a night at a ball park with friends. Yes, I will continue to go to Pirates games. -- Bob Smizik

You have friends?

OUCH! and uncalled for ... from a guy who has taken more than a few shots at Bob!

Here is what Coonelly has all wrong. It's not the fans that the Pirates need to convince. They need to convince free agents that they are heading in the right direction so they can sign them. If the Pirates show improvement, the fans will come. They most definitely will come. Don't question that Frank.

Isn't it a sad commentary when the biggest move a team makes in the off season is the signing of a manager?

I've marked it on my calendar: Pirates in playoffs in two or three years.
Have you taken into consideration the fact that the other teams in the NL Central will not stand idly by, and will spend tens of millions more on payroll, to see this does not happen? --- Bob Smizik

Counting on it Bob...In fact I hope they overpay for legitimate talent on one part of their roster and realize they underspent on another and gamble some of that established talent for what the Pirates have in prospects. Yes I "subscribe" to the the current plan. If it works, it is sustainable. If I am wrong and it does not work...then nothing new. But it's different, and for that reason alone it is worth the optimism and patience.



The ``current plan'' is one used by almost every team. It's not some brilliant scheme devised by Coonelly and Huntington. It's nothing special: build through the draft. However, most teams usually add to the mix by signing a free agent or two. -- Bob Smizik

Coonelly also said that the team needs to continue to invest heavily in its future and convince fans that they are on the right track.

When the young players in whom they have invested heavily start to show that they can be competitive, management will need to increase the major league payroll to get them into contention. But spending big on the major-league payroll right now would be as foolish as the Nationals giving Jason Werth $18M per year,the Blue Jays signing Joey the One-Year-Wonder for $64M, and the Mets paying a washed-up left-fielder $16M/year..

This plan is no different than what was tried in the late 1990's and early 2000's. The Pirates had one of, if not, the highest-rated farm system during that period of time. It amounted to squat. The organization is rotten to the core.

PittPanthers90,

Lighten up, man. It's a joke. I don't have many friends, myself. And want even fewer.

This latest ridiculous utterance by another dim-witted Pirate exec should finally and succinctly eliminate any illusions that this ownership has either the first idea or the first intention of placing a winning team in here. Under this regime we can look forward to more empty promises, perhaps more pitchers from the baseball hotbed of India and another plethora of fireworks nights sufficient to draw enough of the gullible to fill the coffers.

Best PR team in baseball, perahps in all of sports!

Sooooooo...... Everyone pumped up for opening day???!!!!

...
If this had been said two or three years ago, I'd probably have been up in arms, but at this point, it's about what I expect from Cooneley.

I honestly cannot remember someone who is responsible to act in a public capacity for an organization that has so little skill at public relations.

It is concerning, however, even if it's unsurprising. If we assume Frank was truthful, the implication is that the club, at current revenue levels, cannot afford a $70-80MM payroll.

I think we can all agree that the only thing that will drive increased attendance is more MLB wins. Not draft spending or signings, interesting prospects, or minor league success.

Frank is then, in effect, saying that the team will need to become competitive entirely through internal talent, since signing mid- or upper-tier free agents is outside the budget at current revenue levels.

Furthermore, it implies the team must attain this level of competitiveness prior to the youngsters achieving higher salaries through arbitration or free agency, because that too would drive payroll to the unsupportable limit.

I just don't see how anything in this situation adds up to winning baseball, barring lighting in a bottle.

Bipolarman: But spending big on the major-league payroll right now would be as foolish as the Nationals giving Jason Werth $18M per year,

It's not yet clear how wise or foolish the Nationals decision on Werth was.

And it won't be clear for at least a couple years, so indicting them for it now is useless.

I honestly cannot remember someone who is responsible to act in a public capacity for an organization that has so little skill at public relations.

Ever hear of Marge Schott?

Seriously though, I agree with you.

This Regime continues to be exposed as an out & out disgrace.
They have done next to nothing this off-season to improve a horrific team, and now they inadvertently threaten people to come out and watch it....Or else there will be more losing.
Less & less are falling for this fiasco because it is so obvious.
I believe now is the time to stand up and say....No more!
It's time for Bob Nutting to stop the charade, and sell the team to a real owner.
If you watched the video on the PG website a couple days ago, Bob Nutting couldn't even look in the camera when he was speaking.
He is by no means stupid, and he knows what he is pulling right smack in the middle of the city of Pittsburgh.
Mr. Nutting....Get out!...Take your Regime with you, sell the team and leave.
Enough is enough.....

If anyone reading this column cares to read this article/blog to get facts, please do:
http://www.piratesprospects.co...mics.html

He continues to amaze me. Every time I think he has reached the height of ignorance he goes one step further. Six of us said goodbye to our seats two years ago. Statements like this make a future return very unlikely. He's nuts.

I can't believe there are thousands of folks still willing to give these clowns their hard earned money. Do you also go to restaurants that openly spit in your food?


I don't view going to a game as me giving them my money, although that is true. I view it as me spending money on entertainment. I don't think of Nutting or Coonelly when I buy a ticket or a concession. --- Bob Smizik

And I got a -5 for writing "Dire Straits, No money from Nutting and Frank's quips for free."

At least he is more truthful now. I have to respect Mr Coonelly for that. No sense even blogging about free agents or payroll or really any suggestion that will improve the team.

His statement makes me wonder if he will go to the mat on Anthony Rendon. I can see him going for the least difficult agent with that #1 pick, when he makes that type of PR comment.

What better track record for attendance does he need than the Steelers, Pens, and Pitt B-BAll?

I agree with Juniata above. Could FC have worded his statement differently? Absolutely, but that's not what he does.

Basically, his comments echo the sentiment that attendance mirrors payroll. You have attendance in the bottom 3 of MLB (consistently), you get a payroll in the bottom 3 (consistently).

I certainly don't think he's ransoming attendance with these statements. He actually says "but I am convinced that the attendance will move quickly once we convince our fans that we are on the right track."

In essence, once our young ballplayers show the fanbase that they can win some games, and then attendance will go up.

That's actually logical. And, with that increased attendance, they can support the higher payroll.

Again, seems logical.

For so many that dislike these guys, why is so much onus put on all of their statements? Would you believe them even if they were attached to a lie-detector and it said they were telling the truth and being 100% honest and sincere? I'm willing to bet no.....

Apparently, there's a good deal of posters who...

a) don't go to any games
b) don't buy any Pirates merchandise
c) don't watch them on TV
d) don't go to 7 springs b/c it will support BN

that it amazes me the vitriol these guys get for just answering questions.

I think the refreshing thing for me if/when this team is winning will be to actually talk about the players for the most part, and not the words of a few suits.

Do you also go to restaurants that openly spit in your food?

No. But I can go around the corner to a different restaurant. I don't think most people are likely to go root for a different baseball team and go to their games. I also don't think people get the emotional attachment to a restaurant that they might get for a sports team.

The problem with this organization rests with those running it - not the fans.

Bob, Should Nutting seriously consider firing FC?

I don't view going to a game as me giving them my money, although that is true.

Technically you're giving your money to all of the employees too and their stakeholders like vendors, suppliers, their bankers, etc.

In the Pirates' locker room immediately following Maz's game winning home run in the 1960 World Series, club President John Galbreath while being interviewed by Bob Prince asked Bob, "Have we paid our debt to the people of Pittsburgh?"

Here is a guy who actually considered bringing a championship to Pittsburgh's long-suffering fans a "debt" to be paid. At that time, Pirates fans had just finished waiting 33 years between World Series appearances and 35 years between World Series Championships.

Maybe the current owners and people in charge would be better served if they considered bringing a championship back to Pittsburgh a "debt" that they owe to Pirates fans. After all, we have been waiting 31+ years.

Bob, I can only conclude that you are a sadist by posting this.

The hubris in Coonelly's remark just p!sses me off.
So much that I'm almost sympathetic to Hank Steinbrenner's recent complaints about revenue sharing...which says something.

**s simple. A winning program in Major League baseball requires $70-80,000,000 as the price of admission.

This requires an owner(s) who can lose money until the team starts winning, ala Cincinnati Reds.

Nutting cannot afford to lose money. Ergo, 35 million is all he is going to spend. Conclusion: Unless the Pirates get a deep pocketed owner(s), the only thing $35,000,000 will get them is a AAA team. Pittsburgh fans must view baseball as entertainment only.

It's the best bang for your buck on a hot summer night. (Its a lot cheaper than taking a family of four to a movie or Kennywood)

And to top it all off, we get to see real major leaguers, Phillies, Giants, Cardinals, etc. Now tell me, how many AAA teams get to see players like that?

This is insane. Even if attendance would increase, there is no guarentee that Nutting would increase his payroll, he may just put that money in the bank. The bottom line is that he has 1.6 million "believers" that bought into his product after 18 years of futility. These 1.6 million will still go to the ball park anyway. I believe a majority of those people are oblivious to the whole financial state of the Pirates and they just like to go out on a nice summer evening and watch a ballgame. To each his own.

I'm a BASEBALL fan, not necessarily a Pirate fan. There is enough good baseball to watch on TV than wasting my money on this product.

Let's face it, in light of the big picture, The Pirates have been irrelevant in this town since those fateful 8 days in December 1972

@Burgher in California....you are a hoot! Love it!

I'm not one to say I told you so, but....I TOLD YOU SO!!!! I was a big a fan as anyone....not just of the Buccos but of the GAME...Clemente was my hero, and still is....One of the greatest experiences EVER in my life was seeing Bob Gibson pitch a no-hitter. All of the greed, lies and hypocrisy has broken my heart over the years.....but I stopped spending my HARD-EARNED money at PNC PARK at least 3 years ago, even when people told me I should still "show my support." Now when Coonley has finally shown the administration's true colors....honestly, I don't feel bad for any of you that have engaged in the blind faith that has hypnotized you into drinking the kool aid.

If you want to see a MLB game in Pgh, there is only one place to go. If you dont care if the Pirates suck are satisfied whith just having a team that participates in MLB, the Nutting Pirates are there for you to pay money to watch. Nutting thanks you!

I believe a majority of those people are oblivious to the whole financial state of the Pirates

I think that's true of a lot of people.

written by 21sthebest, February 24, 2011 - 03:08 PM
I believe a majority of those people are oblivious to the whole financial state of the Pirates

I think that's true of a lot of people.
=====================
There's nothing to be oblivious to concerning the financial state of the Pirates, and there's no need to act like people are baffled.
Bob Nutting either doesn't want to spend OR doesn't have the money to spend.
Many subscribe to the first theory, but the second theory is actually more dangerous.
Anyway you look at it, either scenario is (and has been) catastrophic for this franchise.
If you don't have the money to purchase the correct goods for your business....You get out.
You don't keep throwing mish-mash and slopped sauce to customers that have no interest in buying such garbage.
There are elementary school kids that know that much about business.

The morning show at DVE has got to have FC on their payroll. His comments have helped put additions on their homes I am sure.

Reminds me of the comment Dan Quayle made when asked if he would miss Johnny Carson once he retired. Quayle replied "No, but I'm sure he'll miss me."

Daq,

Yeah, I've said for several years now that Nutting owes it to the fans to sell.

Bob

Just curious. Was this blog running when McClatchey was still the face of the team? And if so, was he the target of as much enmity? If not do you know if there was any other outlet where McClatchey was attacked as much?


If you are asking if McClatchy got the criticism of Nutting, the answer is no. Nutting is in a class by himself in terms of Internet vitriol. -- Bob Smizik

The problem is not with the commissioner. Tampa Bay won under hit tenure, so did Florida. The problem is with the Pirates. --- Bob Smizik

-While this is true only SOME of the problem can be blamed on The Pirates, not all. The Marlins had to completely blow up their team twice and The Rays are in the process of blowing up their team now. Small market teams have to have the stars line up exactly the correct way in order to have success, and that success can only be sustained for a year or two at the most before they have to blow up the team again. Large markets are at a distinct advantage year in and year out. Small markets can do it for a very small amount of time if they're extremely lucky, but their margin for error is very very small. It's not like that for large markets.
-So, yes I agree that part of the problem is with the ineptitude of The Pirates, but the bigger problem lies with MLB.


Selig is not solely responsible for the economics of baseball. In fact, he has little control over it. The system was in place before he took the job and he's been one of the big movers behind additional revenue sharing for small-market teams. The problem is with the system and that can't be blamed on one man. --- Bob Smizik

Apathy

I'm not angry anymore...

The Nutting Pirates are dead to me.

I no longer care what the Three Stooges say.

Nutting should remember the words of Gordon Gecko

"I had to sell. If you can't pee in the tall weeds with the big dogs............."

So are you ignoring the part that says, and I paraphrase, "we hope our fans recognize the direction we are headed", Bob? Or do you seriously think, after reading that quote, that Coonelly meant that fans should come watch the team while they're terrible before they can become good again?

Answer this question, please.

Yup, leave it to some to actually defend Coonelly's statements. Oh, I'm sorry maybe we are just overreacting as some would say. Really? You mean our statements bashing the blatant slap in the face to the fans by Coonelly isn't warranted? Sure, go ahead and defend the WORST management team in all of professional sports. These clowns can do no wrong in your eyes.

Con-Me is who he is. How anyone can support his shinangins and his double speak at this point in time is beyond me. Amazing how many people wish to remain blind as to his business practices...
Secret Signings of a now fired manager, current GM, Horrible Trades, 300 Losses, puts Hurdles #1 competitor for his job as his bench coach 2011 season, worst of all; looks like at this moment in time Pirates will not sniff .500 until 2013 at best.
Worst Team President in Baseball as to building a team to be successful on the field.
David

If you are asking if McClatchy got the criticism of Nutting, the answer is no. Nutting is in a class by himself in terms of Internet vitriol. -- Bob Smizik

AND HE HAS EARNED every ounce of that Vitriol.
Cheers and Fire that Front office of Bozos TODAY!
David

ryebr3ad - As far as the statement "we hope our fans recognize the direction we are headed"....You've got to be kidding....Right?
They're heading in the same direction they're always headed.....Last place.

Ryebr3ad- everyone DOES recognize the direction the team is headed, which is what makes the statement you quoted even more ridiculous. As Daquido points out, they are headed for last place again. Now go back to Charlie's dugout where you can light your candles to the Nuttings.

Selig is not solely responsible for the economics of baseball. In fact, he has little control over it. The system was in place before he took the job and he's been one of the big movers behind additional revenue sharing for small-market teams. The problem is with the system and that can't be blamed on one man. --- Bob Smizik

Baseball has basically had the same economic structure since before the Wright Brothers flew at Kitty Hawk. It is outdated beyond words, yet very few changes have been made in over 100 years.

Bill Veeck was (correctly) complaining in the 1950's about the Yankees getting to keep all of their local radio and television revenue for themselves even though the Indians (Veeck's team at the time) were equal partners in the staging of baseball games. Branch Rickey was also a champion of local revenues being evenly split.

Fast forward to present day when the Texas Rangers ink a super-multi-zillion dollar contract for local television rights that the Pirates, Rays, Royals, etc, cannot match by half, let alone in full.

Based on competitive balance with respect to economic structure, MLB is a farce. Having said that: a.) While it would be nice to see Bud Selig and the owners display some intestinal fortitude and try to change this system, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. b.) While this might preclude the Pirates from being competitive for the long haul, it in no way prevents them from at least trying to compete.

MLB may have financial cancer, but the Pirates' gunshot wound is largely self-inflicted.



MLB is in a period of nearly unprecedented prosperity. I would not call that ``financial cancer.'' Most businesses in this country would love to be so financially healthy.
You are confusing financial health with competitive balance. --- Bob Smizik

ryebr3ad

Are you Frank Coonelly? Every sports talk show in the and their callers thought that statement was foolish and an insult to fans. If you're trying to defend what he said, just zip up your Parrot costume and get to work along with the likes of cocktails(chubby) and the Nutting-Coonelly Lemmings

By the number and tone of all of these posts, it is obvious that nothing stirs the emotions of the Pittsburgh sports fan quite like a good Pirate discussion, especially when that discussion is based on an absurd comment by one of the inner circle.

Keep these posts coming Bob, it certainly is entertaining reading over my morning coffee. It shouldn't be too hard to do since you can count on an absurd comment from this organization on a weekly if not daily basis.

Bobble Heads. T-shirt Thursday. Dollar Dog Night. Buc Night. Kids run the bases. Perogie races.

I know you need promotions to put cheeks in the seats, but every night at PNC park is something different... that's why people come to the Ballpark. Last year we finished 57-105, we were 40-41 at home, AT HOME! we had fireworks for home runs, and hot dog cannons, we had our perogie races on sportscenter more than our on field plays.

The reason we have had 18 consecutive losing seasons is because we have taken this whole "Family Friendly atmosphere" too seriously.. it started out as a ploy to get fans to the park when we sort of sucked, and now we have to rely on the promotions and theatrics to get fans in the ballpark. This needs to change.

Last summer I was at Yankee stadium for a Red Sox Yankee game and they never once shot s**t out of a cannon, hot dogs were still 7$ and I had a blast. Not once did I say "where is the fireworks, where are the free bobble heads?" you wonder why we are not getting taken seriously, and why Disney is making a movie about the Indian Prospect who won the game show whose prize was a minor league deal with the Pirates Organization... We are a joke.

It all boils down to money... the Pirates are not producing on the field so they have to get us into the ballpark one way or another and everyone loves free stuff. A line needs to be drawn.. Pittsburghers want talent, we want a team that will make us proud to wear the Pirate P again.. we want a team that doesn't trade our decent players when they finally start producing. We need to tone down the prizes and games, and amp up the play.. Mr. Coonelly -we will come when you build it.

I'm 22 years old, and I hope that I get to see a winning season before I die...

Have a great day all, even the believers. Just wanted to get this to 200 posts LOL
Raining in California, semi hard. You would think we are at death's door... Love we are such wimps though LOL...
cheers/Go Pirates, Pens, Steelers
David

Bob,
This story just enrages me. This is the kind of garbage talk we are getting from this ownership and in this case, I have to believe that Coonelly is speaking with the blessing of his owner, else he could not have uttered such nonsense!

Pirates fans in Pittsburgh and everywhere else deserve better than we are getting from this ownership. This ownership IS trying to build a winner in the best way, from within and without bringing in overpriced, over the hill veterans.

But, they are NOT making a commitment to spend money on the development fast enough. Asking fans to come out and watch losers of over 100 games so they can "afford" to build a winning team is garbage talk.

Mr. Nutting and Mr. Coonelly - please explain how the following teams - Texas, Miami, Tampa Bay, Arizona, St. Louis, Cleveland, Milwaukee and others in small markets - have gone to the playoffs in recent years?

And we have NOT?

(silence here - crickets chirping)

Ok, here's the answer. Those teams had an owner committed to more than brash talk. Those teams had an owner who wasn't interested in lining his pockets with profits. Those teams had an owner who built a winning team knowing that the fans would come as soon as he did so!

(in Ronald Reagan voice to Gorbachev "tear down this wall")

Mr. Nutting, get out of baseball and sell this team.