If Lemieux wants to have any credibility on the issue of cheap hits, he has to get rid of Cooke.

Cooke is a good hockey player when he isn't doing this stupid and dangerous stuff. Why he does this stuff I have no idea. This wasn't one of those high hits where the shoulder or elbow comes up and catches the head. This was a blatant, skate across the ice, target somebody and go out of your way to lift the elbow, jut it out, and catch the man on the head hit.

It was beyond stupid, it was beyond selfish, it was beyond belief. Why, in a 1-1 game, third period, playoff positioning on the line, would he think this was a good play?

This behavior defies belief and it makes Shero and Mario look even worse than they looked before.

The HBO series showed Cooke in a cool moment with his kid. It showed he was a likeable enough fellow. What he seems to go out of his way to do on the ice nullifies that and hamstrings the entire Penguin organization. This may have been the last time was see Matt Cooke in a Penguin uniform. The overt effort to injure today is more than the Mario can and will tolerate.

If Lemieux wanted to add credence to his letter, he would release Cooke immediately. Of course he won't, as Cooke is still a halfway decent player and they still harbor Cup thoughts, even as Sid recovers from a 'Cooke like' elbow. All of the talk from Mario about 'rehabilitating' this chronic offender seems to have done no good as he has proven, once again, to be the dirtiest player in hockey. Back up your owrds Mario, get rid of this bum.

I don't see Cook as a problem, I see a bad power play and they miss GoGo. Since he was traded Letang has regressed. Neal has a couple nice passes and Kovolev looks ancient. Niskanen hasn't done anything either.
Lets face it without Sid this team can't beat a good team. The Rangers,Canadiens make them look silly.

Yeah Cooke takes his cheap shots but he didn't lose the game for them



What about today? --- Bob Smizik

Cooke's hit did indeed play a major role in the loss. He'll be gone for a while, thats for sure.

btw here is the definition of choke....I did not make this up...Dixon and the players did indeed choke by the definition...not an opinion either

: to lose one's composure and fail to perform effectively in a critical situation

Cooke has been playing this style of hockey for so long I guess it is just engrained in his psyche. In fact it is engrained in the psyche of the entire NHL and it will take time to change that psyche, it isn't going to happen overnight.

Cooke has to have known that under the current scrutiny of head shots in the NHL, he wasn't going to get away with it, but he still did it. It just goes to show you how much a part of the game these types of cheap shots have become, and how difficult it is going to be to change the direction of the league.

So I say go ahead and hand down a stiff suspension, he deserves it, and it is the only thing that will eventually stem the tide of these types of hits.

...
Bob, good post.

Retire21, you summed it up well. I was watching the game. Cooke went well out of his way to seek out the guy. There was no one around him so he can't use the excuse that he was fighting through traffic. he clearly looks at the guy and then raises his elbow and catches him right in the head.

No guarantee that the Neanderthals at League HQ are going to going to suspend this guy. If they do, then Lemieux needs to put some teeth into the proposal he made wherein the teams need to take responsibility for the actions of their players on the ice. At minimum he needs to bench Cooke AFTER the suspension for at least as long as the suspension is.

I do not believe that under the CBA he can suspend him without salary, but they can waive him.

For sure, if Cooke were wearing the Rangers sweater and did the same thing to any Penguin, the fans would be screaming to have his entrails removed and hung from the scoreboard. As it was of course, many were booing the penalty when it was announced.

This guy plays good hockey and has decent skills. That said, there is a broken thing in his brain that keeps him from doing the sensible thing. He makes Jarko Rutuu and Ulf Samuelson look like they are from the Little Sisters of the Poor.

Jose

I agree with most of the sentiment above. Mario Lemieux will be a total hypocrite if he does not suspend Matt Cooke for a period of time IN ADDITION to whatever suspension the NHL may hand out.

Watching the game, the hit digusted me. It was a total cheap shot. Releasing him is not going to happen, but Mario can definitely make a statement to his team and the entire NHL by suspending Cooke for a longer period of time accompanied with a statement describing why the hit was wrong.

Unfortunately, my guess is that the Penguins will do nothing.

You gotta believe that Mario has had a "serious talk" with him, yet he still does this??? I think "fighting" is a part of hockey (sorry Bob), but this has to stop!!!

Sonny, the power play is a serious problem, no doubt, but remove Crosby and Malkin from any power play and it is going to struggle. Heck, it was struggling with them. But playing 4 against 5 for 5 minutes in a tied third period for no good reason is a serious issue. Among other things, it leaves you no margin for error, like if Niskanen's stick on his backswing, catches a nose and draws blood. Now, instead of 5 on 4, you're playing 5 on 3. In all likelihood, Niskanen doesn't get a high sticking call if the Pens are not hemmed into their own zone trying to kill a needless 5 minute penalty, so you could make a case that the ridiculous Cooke penalty caused the second.

In my book, that's the game and it points back to one act. Sure the Pens might've lost anyway, who knows how the next 10 minutes plays out. But I'd rather take my chances losing 5 on 5 to a team which wasn't even getting shots on goal, then set them up with an extended 5 on 3.

This team has little offensive firepower, it can't afford to take stupid penalties.

You have to wonder what the hell goes through that guys head sometimes?! I mean c'mon Cooke, what in the world are you thinking? What are you trying to accomplish by doing that? Why do you continuously hurt your team by doing such boneheaded things? I wish he would realize his value as a player is in his skill and ability and not by his tendency to act like a goon.

Pens have been taking undisciplined penalties all season. They lead the league, if it wasn't for their top ranked PK they would be out of the playoffs.
I don't think Mario said one word to Cooke, the NHL doesn't see players like Cooke as a problem. As for suspending him, he can't. The NHL will sit him, for a couple games. Look these 12:00 afternoon snoozers are boring, NBC puts it on but the announcers are boring. I fast forward as much as I can.

A completely unnecessary and purposeful hit to the head by Cooke that clearly cost the Penguins the game.

How many careers is this joker going to be allowed to threaten before he pushed out of the league?

Lemieux should release him immediately if he wants any sort of credibility on this issue.

What an absolute disgrace. This guy needs to be out of the league for good. The problem is that he is a decent hockey player, and the Penguins can't release him right now because someone else will pick him up. The NHL is just a joke.

I agree with another poster that the Penguins have really become completely undisciplined. I hate to say it, but Therrien would never stand for this nonsense. When players took unnecessary penalties, they were on the 4th line or in the press box.

...

At minimum he needs to bench Cooke AFTER the suspension for at least as long as the suspension is.

You took the words right out of Max's mouth.

Mario can do more, but at the same time he can't unilaterally disarm. Do you think the U.S. would have stopped WWII if we laid down our arms in 1942? Until the NHL decides to enforce some civility, just laying down on the ice is not going to lead to success.

And don't confuse dirty hits and fighting. They are related, but they are not the same.

Cooke got,what, 4 games last time? They'll double it to 8, at least, this time. He may get 10.

Shero has been quoted as stating the both he and Bylsma have spoken to Cooke about these penalties. Cooke acknowledged as much.

Again, this was overt. Cooke can't explain it away as being legal, like the Savard hit. There was no hit to the shoulder or chest where the shoulder rides up or a hit to a smaller man where the elbow just conveniently gets in the way. This was blatant.

He will be dealt with severely...by NHL standards.

...
a little off subject . . .

83 Down in the PG weekend crossword puzzle - 7 letter word for thrifty management.

Could it be Nutting?

Question: Can the Penguins walk Mario's talk and cut loose Cooke, or would that just make the Penguins more vulnerable to other teams' goons who would then feel less threatened by retaliation by the Penguins because the NHL tolerates such conduct?


There's no way to ``cut loose'' Cooke. He might be on the trade market in the off-season, but he's far too valuable a chip to dump. --- Bob Smizik

Eight games? They gave Gillies ten. With Cooke's reputation, I wouldn't be surprised with 15. If the league doesn't do it, Mario needs to step up.

Cooke didn't cost the Penguins today's game.

For whatever reason, the Pens inexplicably seem to play better 4-on-5 than they do 5-on-4.

That especially showed today when they scored 4-on-5.

But the Niskannen penalty, while accidental, was the killer. You can't ask a team to hold the line while playing 3-on-5 (even though they almost did).

Without the Niskannen penalty, I think the Pens kill the final three minutes of the major, ride the momentum of the crowd, and cruise to victory.

Where the Cooke play will cost the Pens is the rest of the regular season. He's a repeat offender. He should get 10 games. His emotions cause him to play reckless and stupid. The Pens can't afford to lose any more players right now and not having Cooke for the rest of the regular season will almost certainly cost them a game or two.

I think at this point, whatever the NHL decides, Mario must impose a team suspension also, or pay him and sit him out. It is hard to believe that anything will get through to him now. The sad part is he has more than enough skill to just play the game hard, not cheap. As this board indicates, there is little support left for Cooke. He needs to apologize to the fans, the team and the other player. He now is a disadvantage to the team, he fails to draw even obvious penalties from the other team and today's lack of discipline did cost them at least a tie if not a win. He can no longer be tolerated. Great Blogging today Bob.

Mario get rid of Cooke? Unless I am mistaken, instead Cooke was MOVED UP to assistant captain recently. I had not noticed the A on his jersey previously. Is it new like I think? If so, WELL THEN THAT IS EMBARASSING to say the least. If he had that A before, well then Mario/Bylsma should have taken it off of his jersey ... someone please help out with the facts here, tho either way that A looks either terribly or pretty embarrassing ... By the way, in case anyone is really wondering why Cooke keeps playing, he is a +14, second best amongst active Pens behind red-hot Kunitz at +17 ...

Cooke should be suspended by the NHL; I think we're all in agreement on that.

That said, does a team have the power to suspend a player because of a hockey hit for which he was punished? I think the NHLPA would have a field day with that one. There's no way it could get done.

Are we honestly suggesting that after he's missed 10 games without pay, Mario should suspend a man without pay for 10 more? Again, the union would cry bloody murder at that.

There was a good article on ESPN.com the other day; it's not the players', or even the teams', responsibility to police the players. That responsibility belongs to the league. If the Penguins decide that Cooke no longer gives them the best chance to win, that his contributions hurt more than they help, then by all means cut him. If Ray Shero decides to trade him in the offseason, then that's fine too. If Dan Bylsma or Ray Shero thinks he should be benched for a few games, that is within their right. But for the team to suspend a player without pay over this is ludicrous.

It's not Mario's responsibility to "back up his talk" and suspend him. Nor should he cut him to "send a message," because Cooke will DEFINITELY be signed quickly. Max hit the nail on the head; why give away a valuable commodity for nothing?

I don't undestand why Cooke would do something so stupid. I'm hoping at least the guy nailed Cooke earlier in the game. Even so, it was stupid.

I watch Cooke's shenanigans game after game and continue to wonder why some team does not send somebody out on the ice and just beat the living crap out of him. Just beat him absolutely senseless. Put him into the hospital..beat him so badly his brain is turned to oatmeal. He is not a guy who is ever going to front somebody man to man. It's not his style.

I personally don't condone it, but using the laws by which hockey governs itself I don't see why it has not occurred.

Lemieux doesn't need to release Cooke to have credibility. He will have credibility if he comes out and says the suspension Cooke certainly will receive is the right call by the league. Cooke helps the Pens win plenty of games, and is a good player. He wears the A because he is also a leader. A suspension is warranted, but all the embarrassment and disgrace stuff is overblown. Samuelsson was considered the dirtiest player in the league and he is a hero in Pittsburgh; Ruutu had a cult following in Pittsburgh; and Kasparaitis was another fan favorite. So, what is different with Matte Cooke? He wouldn't be the first Penguin to cost his team a game with a stupid penalty.

>>>>Samuelsson was considered the dirtiest player in the league and he is a hero in Pittsburgh; Ruutu had a cult following in Pittsburgh; and Kasparaitis was another fan favorite. So, what is different with Matte Cooke?

The difference is Mario, has spoken out on it and Cooke has continued on playing the same way. When the owner speaks, the player follows, it makes Mario look to be a hypocrite still having him on the team without changing the style of play.

I don't see Cook as a problem, I see a bad power play and they miss GoGo. Since he was traded Letang has regressed.

_________________________

GoGo being shipped has zero bearing on Letangs play.....Orpik's injury has the most effect......Letang and Orpik played together and now Letang is stretched to the limits as without Orpik every opponent zeros in and game plans for Letang.

and I can say with much certainty that Matt Cooke has played his last game with the Pens.

I hope he never plays another game for the Penguins.
He's selfish, stupid and more than slightly immoral.

Matt Cooke, cheap shots, ridiculous fighting, key owner calls league "garage".. Poor protection of star players combined with crappy headgear...I appreciate hockey as a sport but the NHL, to this outsider, seems crazy.
They really should just cut back to about 16 teams and keep it what it really is. A regional kind of thing. Northeast, Canada and into the mid west with Chicago and St. Louis...
Guys like Cooke couldn't get a job then. There would be zero marginal talent and the savings on travel and time...Cut maybe two months off the season, presto! Success...
Hate to leave out hockey hot spots like Phoenix, Florida and California, but this is a no brainer to me...
Sorry hockey fans...I mean you still get to keep your Penquins...But the league needs some changing..

Bring back Bugsy Watson !

Simply...after any suspension is over...make Cooke a healthy scratch for the remaining games...including the playoffs. After the season, trade or release him.

I assume that anyone calling for the Penguins to get rid of Cooke did the same with Harrison?

Cooke will get 6 games for this, if I were laying odds.

Conner will have to step up. Hopefully, Asham will be healthy enough that we don't have to dress Godard.

"He's selfish, stupid and more than slightly immoral."

Is this about Matt Cooke or Ben Roethlisberger or James Harrison?

What Cooke did was on the ice during a game to a player who willingly accepts the risk associated with playing professional hockey and he got the appropriate on ice penalty and will more than likely face a suspension. He's never been arrested nor assaulted anyone on the street so exactly how is he immoral? How exactly was the penalty "selfish"? Stupid play? Yes, indeed. Immoral? Hardly. I'd much rather have Cooke around my family than the two Steelers I mentioned.

Shero is a clown for keeping Cooke on the roster. He's useless.Shero should make Fleury urinate in a bottle. Something wrong with that boy.Maybe he needs glasses.

Rbilak:

Mario spoke out against the league not getting tough on violations of the rules and premeditated attacks. He never questioned teams employing players who are known to cross the line, he just wants stiffer punishment for players when they do cross the line. If he said teams need to reconsider employing players who have a reputation for crossing the line, then he would be a hypocrite. He made the garage league comment years ago and it was in regards to the league not enforcing its own rules. I think his recent comments reflect his previous position about the need for proper rule enforcement.

Hey Geno Sid. You know nothing about sports. Harrison preforms a service ,Cooke performs nothing.

GenoSid & JSer--

Well said. There was an appropriate on-ice punishment made, and there more than likely will be supplemental discipline from the league.

If HCDB or Shero or Lemieux want to bench Cooke, let them do it for performance reasons, not to wag their finger(s) at him.

"written by SportsFan3, March 20, 2011 - 04:24 PM
You have to wonder what the hell goes through that guys head sometimes?! I mean c'mon Cooke, what in the world are you thinking? "

Cooke is a dirty player, there is no question about it. This play was the worst of his controversial "hits".

But, unlike say the Dany Heatley elbow last week that was purely revenge, purely intent to injure behind the play, Cooke's dirty plays result from him playing harder than everyone else.

This hit and the knee on Ovechkin were both plays where Cooke was about to get beat and he made these (yes, dirty) plays to stop his opponents from beating him.

He definitely hurt the team today, but he's not the bloodthirsty headhunter many like to paint him.


Fooled me! --- Bob Smizik

You people comparing Cooke to Samuelsson, Kasperritus,Rutu etc. They weren't head hunters Cooke is. Keep Cooke and if i'm the coach of a opposing team i give orders to take Crosby's head off. Is that a even up trade.Why do you think Steckel is no longer with Washington. Did ya notice the last Pens Caps game Cooke and Orpik both tried to take Ovechkin out.Payback for the classic hit.

"written by icechips, March 20, 2011 - 06:59 PM
Hey Geno Sid. You know nothing about sports. Harrison preforms a service ,Cooke performs nothing."

I will certainly defer to your extensive expertise and experience on "preform"-ing and servicing.

JSer333, March 20, 2011 - 06:56 PM


Mario's statement



“Hockey is a tough, physical game, and it always should be. But what happened Friday night on Long Island wasn’t hockey. It was a travesty. It was painful to watch the game I love turn into a sideshow like that.

“The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport. It failed.

“We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players. We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.

“If the events relating to Friday night reflect the state of the league, I need to re-think whether I want to be a part of it.”



The Safety of our players - Hence if Cooke hits someone with elbow in the head intentionally, it effects safety - therefore if he employs Cooke and continues to play him, he is (hypocritical - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.)

The "Garage" League comments were about clutching and grabbing and you point out rules being enforced. Lemieux wants change for head hits which have not been adopted, so therefore is not something he can compalint about being enforced.

This was one of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had watching a game in my life. They had momentum and I think they'd have won if not for Cooke's penalty. I think they need to cut him plain and simple. I don't think there's a choice after this game. Especially after all the talk there's been about head shots.

Why do I see Paul Martin bent over his stick right in defeat in front of Fleury after every bad goal we give up?

Stupid penalty period! A hockey player without a brain. Straighten up or I'm thinking he will be moved in the offseason. A selfish player in the guise of being a team player. Right.

"written by DivineHammer, March 20, 2011 - 06:27 PM
and I can say with much certainty that Matt Cooke has played his last game with the Pens."

I would take out 15 second mortgages to take that bet.

Mario's in a bind. He has to weigh Cooke's value to the team, especially without Sid and Geno. After all, Cooke is an attribute to the team when he isn't acting like a goon. But at the same time, Mario is taking heat from the media, fans and other teams for his hypocrisy regarding head shots. Cooke will be gone soon, but will it be before or after the playoffs?

Dave Molinair at PG+:

``Matt Cooke changed the course of the game, and perhaps of the Penguins’ season

Molinari's writing style has always been filled with hyperbole. I hope this was another instance.

For the sake of argument, let's say Cook's penalty cost them the game.

The course of the Penguins' season changed on Jan. 1 when Sidney Crosby's head rattled off of David Steckel...and when Evgeni Malkin's knee crumpled and ligaments were torn a few weeks later in Consol Energy Center.

As soon as I saw the replay of Cooke's hit my first thought was that's it he has to go.
That was a selfish, stupid, dirty and very cheap hit coming from a guy who of all people should know better.
What was going through Cooke's mind?
I'm done with Matt Cooke. The Penguins need to be done with Cooke too.

Cooke is a complete moron who continues to play dirty despite being suspended & being the poster child for dirty play in the NHL. The guy just doesn't get it & probably never will. As stupid as he is, even he wouldn't have fouled the guy after the missed free throw in last nights game

Good to see Mario grabbing the bull by the horns to clean up the game of hockey.

Talk is cheap.

He came across as a child after the Islanders brawl. Now he comes across as either impotent or completely full of it.

Guess he doesn't like to get either his hands or suits dirty by doing any work.

I think he is gone somehow someway....

Cooke is a liability and should never be seen in a Penguin uniform again.

When Cooke starts ringing up the equivalent of an NFL Defensive MVP award and altars the course of a Super Bowl, then you can compare him to James Harrison. Until then, it is best to not try to go that route. Best I can remember, Harrison has not been suspended for any of his hits, fined yes, suspended, no.

"He definitely hurt the team today, but he's not the bloodthirsty headhunter many like to paint him.

Fooled me! --- Bob Smizik"

Had he wanted to...he could have targeted Ovie's knee and he wouldn't be walking today. Instead, it was a last second reaction as the only way to slow a man who was about to go by him.

Even Cooke seemed to know the play today was bad/stupid/etc. He seemed to let up on the force...if not, McDonough could still be down on the ice. He went right off the ice, instead of arguing the call which he ALWAYS does, no matter how red his hands are...

Dumb play, but I don't think he went into it to hurt the guy.


He is widely regarded, even by his own team, as a dirty player. To commend him for not being totally filthy dirty is pretty pathetic. Your crush on this guy -- you called him a ``great'' player -- is destroying your ability to properly evaluate what a thug he is. --- Bob Smizik

Lemieux forcing the release Cooke would be patently idiotic. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

With that said, I think a concerted effort will be made in the off-season to move him, but they're not just going to cut him loose and eat 2/3 of his cap hit the next 4 years to prove a point, since this team is already snug up against as it is.

written by Max, March 20, 2011 - 04:48 PM

And don't confuse dirty hits and fighting. They are related, but they are not the same.

Just got home---I never meant they were the same. I was "trying" to say: fighting---yes! Cheap shots--No!

Cooke is a dummy. Maybe it's time for his teammates to let him know how stupid he is instead of backing him up. Time for a wake-up call.

Rbilak

I know what his comments were. I said he would be a hypocrite if he didn't accept the suspension Cooke will receive, or at the very least he doesn't suggest it should be longer if it is too short. His comments reflect his desire for harsher penalties; again, he doesn't say teams need to cut players who are considered dirty, or teams shouldn't employ players who occasionally hit someone in the head. He just wants proper discipline. We should wait to see if he says anything about this incident before calling him a hypocrite, until then having Cooke on his team does not make him a hypocrite.

Mario wouldnt be a hypocrite to keep Cooke. What is hypocritical is when the crowd booed the refs for calling the penalty. if that happened to our player, the fans would be berserk if a penalty wasnt called. Mario would be a hypocrite only if he protests any punishment the NHL will mete out to Cooke.

Suspend Cooke..Fine.
Trade Cooke..Stupid. The guy is a good hockey player. He knew he did something wrong. Go back and look at his reaction afterward.

Also, the intent has to be, at best, questionable because the Rangers' McDonagh was elevating his stick after dumping the puck into the zone. Cooke appears to be raising his arm in an attempt to shield his face as much as we was trying to deliver a blow.

Regardless, I agree he needs to be suspended. If they really want to protect the players then put on full helmets like they do in college and eliminate the a lot of the impact of high sticks, shot pucks to the face, etc. Impacts are a part of the game. It should be time people stop worrying about how they play and worry more about actually protecting them from physical damage.

@GenoSid,

I have to agree with Bob's statement:

Your crush on this guy -- you called him a ``great'' player -- is destroying your ability to properly evaluate what a thug he is.

I don't think much of players like Claude Lemieux or Dale Hunter either, and they were better scorers than Cooke.

Cooke is a punk plain and simple. His game exists only because the NHL allows it to. And his stock increases in value because that is the current mentality if the league. Maybe guys like Hunter and C. Lemieux paved the way for Cooke's type, but the instigator rule solidified it.

What's sad is that as a decent penalty killer, his actions hurt his team. Cooke makes a choice to play this way, which he believes maintains his value as a player. When valuing cheap shots/agitating/etc disappears from the NHL, his game will change.

What I meant by this statement:

His game exists only because the NHL allows it to.

is the agitator/cheap shot part of his game. The part that is detrimental to his team.

Mark Madden wrote a piece on Cooke which sums up both sides of players like him.

Madden's key line was:

Hockey's the problem, not Cooke. Hockey created and nurtured Cooke's style.

http://www.timesonline.com/spo...78c22.html



Cooke's the problem. If every player or most played like Cooke, it could be said hockey is the problem. But few do. Cooke is the problem. --- Bob Smizik

If Cooke is suspended, do the Penguins get to replace him on the roster?

If so.....???

If you wanna make a suspension hurt, make teams ineligible to call up a replacement for the duration of the suspension.

cuzzinfish....I agree with most of your post, but I disagree about the intent. Cooke knew exactly what he was doing and went out of his way to do it. He must have thought the referees were watching the puck and not him. A shameful, despicable act.


Yep, pretty far-fetched to wonder what his intent was. --- Bob Smizik

"He is widely regarded, even by his own team, as a dirty player. To commend him for not being totally filthy dirty is pretty pathetic. Your crush on this guy -- you called him a ``great'' player -- is destroying your ability to properly evaluate what a thug he is. --- Bob Smizik"

My "crush" on the guy is that I think the analysis of him is emotional, unfair and usually incorrect.

The Pittsburgh Pirates are not a real professional sports team. They exist solely to steal money from their fans and the city that built their stadium.

Should I refer to your attempts to paint them as anything but thieves as you having a "crush" on the Pittsburgh Pirates, one that is hurting your ability to evaluate what a joke they are?

Or do you just have a different opinion?

Also, you were the one who said I couldn't call Jay Cutler a loser because he plays in the NFL...by that logic, is not every player in the NHL, great? Pick a semantic side.

Fair enough. Matt Cooke is NOT great. He's a "winner."

"I don't think much of players like Claude Lemieux or Dale Hunter either, and they were better scorers than Cooke."

And I disagree...which is why I call Cooke a great player.

Matt Cooke is his generation's Dale Hunter, Esa Tikkanen and/or Claude Lemieux.

Is he as good as those guys? Probably not.

Holyfield was not as good as Ali or Tyson, but that's not his fault. He was the best of his era.

Matt Cooke is the top agitator in the NHL for the past decade or so.

He is one the top PK guys on the best PK in the league. He scores 15-18 goals a year. He gets his opponent off their game. He helps his team win.

And I'm fully aware of what a thug he is...it's his job.

His job is straddle the line of what is dirty and what is not...obviously, he will cross that line now and again.

"Cooke knew exactly what he was doing and went out of his way to do it. He must have thought the referees were watching the puck and not him. A shameful, despicable act."

The rear replay shows Cooke lining up McDonough for a clean shoulder check. McDonough starts backpedaling a bit and Cooke is about to miss his hit. He THEN sticks his elbow out to get a piece of him rather than miss the check.

It was dumb. It was pointless. He should have been penalized. He should be suspended.

But, if his goal was just to hurt the guy, he could have gone in with the elbow stiff and loaded and left his feet for the hit, a la Alexander Ovechkin.

Again, I'm not trying to defend what he did yesterday. What he did yesterday is indefensible, but that doesn't make him Satan.

"is the agitator/cheap shot part of his game. The part that is detrimental to his team."

Those often get linked together, but...they don't have to be. You can be an agitator without taking cheap shots.

In fact, the agitator's job is to get their opponent to take cheap shots on them.

In reality, the Penguins might indeed have to get rid of Cooke, (and they may well dress it up, for PR's sake, as them taking a public stand against...blah, blah...) but only because his high profile makes it impossible for him to be an effective agitator.

The agitator has to be able to get away with a little hack to the ankles here, a crosscheck there, etc.

What makes what he did Sunday so stupid is that he knows he's being watched and that he can't get away with even the little things these days and so...he tries for big and obvious instead?

So...maybe the Pens will get rid of Cooke. A great victory for the anti-violence crusade, no doubt. And then they will find a guy NOT named Matt Cooke to do the exact same job...with a lower profile.

This is off topic, its only about hockey the game. But...if any other team lost a top pairing defenseman, you'd hear way more about it than we are hearing about Orpik's absence. We need him back more than anyone else.

He really provides a steadying presence for Letang. It's no coincidence when the level of 58's game droppped.

I don't dislike Paul Martin. He's a top end skater and puckhandler. He makes great outlet passes and has a real good stick...defends well on the rush.

But...for $5 million a year in a salary cap league...I really dislike Paul Martin.

The reason we have that "9 second rule" (the Pens want the puck out of their D zone within 9 seconds each time) is because almost every time the other team keeps the puck in longer than that...Martin is sure to be beaten down low because everyone else is stronger than he is (he's making Gogo look like Jeff Beaukeboom) and he can't get anyone off the puck.

When Paul Martin is on your powerplay...it's like not being on the powerplay.

The other team knows he won't shoot the puck, so they are content to let him stand at the top of the umbrella while they defend the other four guys.

If he does shoot it...it looks like he shot a sponge puck. It just flutters towards the net at 43 mph.

So, as good as he is at certain aspects of the game, he's just as bad at others.

Good (great even) player and all but in a salary cap league, you need more for $5 million a year.

...
I'm not quite sure I understand the calls here that Mario must dump, trade, bench, or otherwise neutralize Matt Cooke. Why should the responsibility of cleaning up the NHL fall on the Penguins?

Mario's job (regardless of statements made or subsequent cries of hypocrisy) isn't to lead some moral charge in the NHL. His job is to own and manage a club that is competitive within the framework the league has set.

Unfortunately, that framework means a player like Matt Cooke is quite valuable...for any comic fans here, he is "the best he is at what he does, but what he does isn't very nice".

I completely agree the NHL needs to clean up. In a perfect world, there would be meaningful suspensions and fines levied agianst teams and players that would either force players like Cooke to clean up, or reduce their value so that teams would not employ them.

However, that is not the landscape of the game today. And in today's landscape, Cooke helps the Penguins win. It's not Mario's job to fix Bettman's mess.

Cooke's the problem. If every player or most played like Cooke, it could be said hockey is the problem. But few do. Cooke is the problem. --- Bob Smizik

I disagree.

Cooke is what he is because his skill set is valued at nearly $2MM per year on a multi-year contract - which I guarantee would be tradeable if the Pens so chose, or if he reached FA, he would net a similar deal. Cooke is a valuable commodity in the NHL.

If Cooke was the problem and he was a true outlier, he'd be a fringe player, an AHL call-up at best. He's not. He is a vaulable component on an elite club.

Moreover, almost all successful teams have players like Matt Cooke; in the current NHL landscape you need a player like that...they help you win.

Claude Lemieux, Ulf Samuelsson, and Esa Tikkanen were some of the dirtiest players in hockey during the 80's and 90's....and they have eleven Stanley Cup rings between them.

It's the league that needs to change to render Cooke's skill set no longer valuable.

I agree with Signollo.

It's the league that needs to change to render Cooke's skill set no longer valuable.

Cooke will adjust his game when he has to. Thus far he has made himself rich (comparatively speaking) playing the way he does. Until that style is no longer valued (because you are suspended/fined, penalized or otherwise hurting your team) it will continue.

The irony here is that his owner and GM have been so outspoken against it due to their own superstar's absence.

If the Pens dump Cooke, there are 29 other teams in line for him, and we are all crying foul when he takes cheap shots at the Pens. Cooke's actions and the league's weak stance on that style of play make him valuable. He is taking full advantage of the system.

"Cooke will adjust his game when he has to. Thus far he has made himself rich (comparatively speaking) playing the way he does. Until that style is no longer valued (because you are suspended/fined, penalized or otherwise hurting your team) it will continue."

But, the team has also made itself "rich" using Cooke to play the style he does. It won.

"The irony here is that his owner and GM have been so outspoken against it due to their own superstar's absence."

Much has been made of this notion of his GM and coach talking to Cooke. And to be fair, Shero has stated that he "didn't like" the hit on Savard. I don't know Bylsma's reaction.

But...they also "talked" to Matt Cooke earlier this year to ask him why he wasn't being Matt Cooke enough. He wasn't hitting enough. He wasn't being aggressive enough and they didn't like it.

GenoSid: But, the team has also made itself "rich" using Cooke to play the style he does. It won.

Exactly. Matt Cooke is who he is because playing hockey that way is a benefit to himself and his team, given the current nature of the game.

It is the job of the league to drive a paradigm shift that will make that style of play no longer lucrative to either the player or the club.

As it stands, Cooke's skill set is a valuable one. If that is to change, it is the league's responsiblity to drive the point home.

Cooke should get 10 games, much deserved.

People here who want the Pens to add discipline are crazy. The reform will never start from the bottom up. The Pens play in the today’s NHL, and a dirty Cooke is an important part of the team, minus the illegal hits.

I think Mario’s statement has really screwed the Pens. Ever since, other teams have been more physical and tougher then the Pens. For example, 3 or 4 Pens get roughed up on the doorstep after the puck was frozen, and there is no response. It seems Mario’s statement has forced the Pens to play without a tough edge, which doesn’t work in today’s NHL.

The confidence is gone, this team can’t compete for a Cup without Sid AND Geno. All dopes out there that were proposing a Geno trade, watch a game instead of only looking at point totals.

I know that this is a long thread ... it is about to get longer after we see the results from Cooke's IN PERSON disciplinary meeting in Toronto at 1300 EDST today ... However, why is Cooke on the Pens --- well his plus/minus is +14, second best amongst active Pens. Now the real question is, when was he made an ASSISTANT CAPTAIN, was it recently, like I believe and how could that possible be the case given Lemieux's comments and general pressure about dirty play??? If he has been an assistant captain for awhile, then why wasn't he stripped given Lemieux comments. This captaincy is an ISSUE TO DISCUSS. It is a terrible embarrassment, but we all should understand why he is part of the team.

The rear replay shows Cooke lining up McDonough for a clean shoulder check. McDonough starts backpedaling a bit and Cooke is about to miss his hit. He THEN sticks his elbow out to get a piece of him rather than miss the check.

But, if his goal was just to hurt the guy, he could have gone in with the elbow stiff and loaded and left his feet for the hit, a la Alexander Ovechkin.

How many excuses are we going to make for this guy? Get real. Whether he was just trying to get a piece of him so that he didn't completely miss or not, why in the world are you lifting your elbow? Sorry, but this guy is either a complete moron or is intentionally throwing cheap hits. Considering the frequency, I'm going to say the latter, especially when you look at Steve Downie, who doesn't seem all that bright and somehow was able to quit throwing dirty hits.

I know it will never happen, but this guy needs to be suspended by the NHL for the rest of the regular season, and the Penguins need to step up and sit him for the playoffs. It's not the smart thing to do (although he certainly cost them the game yesterday) but Mario made a big statement and he needs to back it up now. If Mario is who we think he is, he'll take care of business.

"How many excuses are we going to make for this guy? Get real. Whether he was just trying to get a piece of him so that he didn't completely miss or not, why in the world are you lifting your elbow?"

As many "excuses" are needed to accurately explain the situation. He used his elbow because that's all he had left. Same reason he stuck his knee out with Ovechkin.

This is not to "excuse" what he did. He should NOT have done them. But, the issue was intent. My contention is that his dirty plays are made out of a hyper competitiveness rather than malice or the will to inflict pain or injury.

James Harrison does try to inflict pain. Harrison does try to hurt people. He enjoys it.

I have to assume that everyone who is calling for the Penguins to get rid of Cooke also called (are calling) for the Steeler's to get rid of Harrison.

Right?

"The confidence is gone, this team can’t compete for a Cup without Sid AND Geno. All dopes out there that were proposing a Geno trade, watch a game instead of only looking at point totals."

I agreed with everything in your post (though for the record I bet Cooke gets 6 games...unless the NHL calls Shero and 66s bluff, but 6 games would be consistent with their recent decisions) except the idea that we need both to win. I think we could win without Geno this year if we got 100% Sid back.

Have you looked at this year's "contenders"?

I cannot find one I wouldn't have labled as pretenders in year's past. But...eventually, someone has to win...

But you are so right about Geno, but even...go ahead and look at the numbers. At the time he was hurt, Geno had (I believe) 37 points in 42 games.

The player most everyone seemed to want to deal him for...Ducks LW Bobby Ryan...also had 37 points (at the time) in 52 games.

Never got that logic...

James Harrison does try to inflict pain. Harrison does try to hurt people. He enjoys it.

So we're going to justify one person's behavior because someone else does it?

Harrison admits that he wants to hurt people, but he does so by delivering hits that are at least part of the game. To compare Harrison to what Cooke did yesterday, he would have clotheslined someone at the last second because he was going to miss a tackle.

My comparison to the NFL is this - it boggles my mind that professional football players still can't figure out how to not block in the back when it is called on almost every kickoff. It equally boggles my mind that some professional hockey players can't keep their elbows tucked at all times when they make a hit.

It's ridiculous, and there is no point trying to explain it. He's an idiot, and he knew what he was doing.

I think we could win without Geno this year if we got 100% Sid back.

Have you looked at this year's "contenders"?

I have to disagree. Obviously, the team will be better with a 100% Sid. But in the two cup final runs, they had 3 solid lines with Sid-Geno-Stall, very tough to defend all three, every game, in a series.

To make a run this year, 100% Sid, plus Fluery would have to stand on his head, like no goalie has ever before. Others would need to catch fire as well, Stall, Neal, Kovy, that is difficult to imagine.

Philly and Wash do not have playoff proven goaltending, they would need to collapse.

I’m starting to think Sid should be shut down until next season.

"Philly and Wash do not have playoff proven goaltending, they would need to collapse."

Phi, Was...add Van and Det to the list of good teams with suspect goaltending.

Van (again) Bos and SJ among teams with weak D corps.

Van, Bos, SJ, Was, etc among teams without enough heart.

The normal criteria cannot be used since someone will win by default but...

Which team do you see as a legit Cup contender?

No, the Pens aren't nearly as good as when they won...but neither is the field.