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Friday, 07 October 2011 00:30
Did the Steelers allow sentiment to stand in the way of putting the best roster together for the 2011 season?
That's a much-discussed question this week and understandably so. A lot of people are comparing what is happening this season to what happened at the end of the Dynasty, when many believed the Steelers allowed sentiment to stand in the path of restocking the roster.
It’s easy to second-guess four games into the season. I don’t recall many suggesting the Steelers were too old or that management was too sentimental back in early September. Back then, the talk was Super Bowl, not a failure to recognize an aging team.
There are five players who might fall into the category of ``should have been cut’’ to make room for younger players or so other positions could be better manned.
Aaron Smith (defensive end, 35 in April, 13th season): Smith had multiple injuries over the past four seasons and missed 26 of 64 games. The case could be made he was injury prone and should have been cut. Or the case could be made his body hadn’t taken the beating of most players his age and he still had at least one good season left.
What the Steelers should have done: With two No. 1 draft choices, Ziggy Hood (2009) and Cameron Heyward (2011) at the position and not starting, the Steelers were too at deep defensive end at the expense of other positions. Hood, who played very well last season in place of Smith, was an unnecessary luxury as a backup. He should have been promoted and Smith released, with his history of injuries being the perfect excuse.
Casey Hampton (nose tackle, 34 last month, 11th season): If any player appears to have slipped significantly this season, it’s Hampton. That shouldn’t be totally surprising because he’s played a long time at a position where there’s usually a short shelf-life. But there were very few, if any, indications last season Hampton was slipping. Just as important, there was no one ready to step in and do the job he was doing.
What the Steelers should have done: Hampton deserved to be brought back without a second thought.
Brett Keisel (defensive end, 33 last month, 10th season): Keisel played well last season. He missed five games because of injury, but there never was any speculation he was finished as a productive player.
What Steelers should have done: Bring him back.
James Farrior (inside linebacker, 36 in January, 15th season): The Steelers probably believed 2010 would be Farrior’s final season. No one expected him to play the length of the contract he signed in 2008. But he surprised everyone by playing very well last season. He had six sacks, third on the team and second best in his career. He was second in the team in tackles. It looked like he had discovered the Fountain of Youth.
What Steelers should have done: With Larry Foote, a more-than suitable replacement ready to step in, the Steelers should have released Farrior. It would have been a tough call. He’s a captain and a highly respected leader.
Hines Ward (wide receiver, 35 in March, 14th season): He caught only 59 passes last season, 36 fewer than the year before. His numbers indicated decline, but he still looked like he had game.
What Steelers should have done: Another difficult call involving a respected leader and popular player. With only two second-year players available to replace him and with third-year receiver Mike Wallace as the other starter, it was the right thing to bring back Ward.
Comments (92)
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written by ISIS, October 07, 2011 - 01:00 AM
written by ISIS, October 07, 2011 - 01:00 AM
Even if it did, the Rooney's look at the macrocosm, not the microcosm.
By doing that, they let players know of their loyalty, which increases, greatly, the ability of obtaining and keeping quality players.
That is the Rooney style.
It works.
Nutting should try that, but...
"It's about the profits or Nutting at all!"
By doing that, they let players know of their loyalty, which increases, greatly, the ability of obtaining and keeping quality players.
That is the Rooney style.
It works.
Nutting should try that, but...
"It's about the profits or Nutting at all!"
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written by saneman, October 07, 2011 - 02:10 AM
written by saneman, October 07, 2011 - 02:10 AM
THere is no way you would have cut Smith after last year. What they should have done was ask him to take a Bettis type role with a renegotiated smaller salary with a backup but important role. Again easier said than done as Smith was adamant he wasn't done as recent as a few weeks ago. I personally think there is still hope for Smith. He doesn't need to be speedy. So all he has to do is regain his strength in the next few weeks.
As far as Farrior, this was a no brainer. He definitely should have been asked to retire. FARRIOR IS DONE. He was done two years ago and should never have been given an extension. Last year was an obvious last gasp for pride where he gave it all. Too bad he did not retire on a high note. 3M or so in cap savings.
Hines Ward : after you saw what he did in the SB, you couldn't cut him. He has paid for a very reasonable salary for years. This is one thing you just do not touch even if you are paying him a million more.
This is where they could have saved money
1) Arnaz Battle 1M plus in salary. He is a good special teamer but not replaceable even if he was made captain. That';s what your younger LBs and offensive players are for.
2) I would have cut mcFadden and gone after one of the Philly corners. Maybe offer them one of our LBs who were highly rated at the time. lewis is showing promise, but we need some quality depth here. 2M+ in cap savings.
3) Farrior 3M in cap savings.
4 ) renegotiate Smith if you could get away with it. With Farrior cut, it would be a delicate balance in that locker room on how hardcore you want to be.
5) I would have cut and then re-signed Starks in the offseason for the minimum with a two sided option for next year based on his weight and fitness markers.
6) Wouldnt have bothered with both Essex and J Scott. At least one of them could have gone.
As far as Farrior, this was a no brainer. He definitely should have been asked to retire. FARRIOR IS DONE. He was done two years ago and should never have been given an extension. Last year was an obvious last gasp for pride where he gave it all. Too bad he did not retire on a high note. 3M or so in cap savings.
Hines Ward : after you saw what he did in the SB, you couldn't cut him. He has paid for a very reasonable salary for years. This is one thing you just do not touch even if you are paying him a million more.
This is where they could have saved money
1) Arnaz Battle 1M plus in salary. He is a good special teamer but not replaceable even if he was made captain. That';s what your younger LBs and offensive players are for.
2) I would have cut mcFadden and gone after one of the Philly corners. Maybe offer them one of our LBs who were highly rated at the time. lewis is showing promise, but we need some quality depth here. 2M+ in cap savings.
3) Farrior 3M in cap savings.
4 ) renegotiate Smith if you could get away with it. With Farrior cut, it would be a delicate balance in that locker room on how hardcore you want to be.
5) I would have cut and then re-signed Starks in the offseason for the minimum with a two sided option for next year based on his weight and fitness markers.
6) Wouldnt have bothered with both Essex and J Scott. At least one of them could have gone.
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written by Mario Rueda, October 07, 2011 - 02:26 AM
written by Mario Rueda, October 07, 2011 - 02:26 AM
Totally agree with AHaberman35. The Steelers ended just one touchdown away from getting the 7th title. Probably if Big Ben hadn't over thrown Wallace or if they haven't had all those turnovers. Probably we are watching the fading of this group of players just the way we saw the Steel Curtain players fade away. Last year was the probably the last chance for these group of players.
Remember: the Steelers are built by the draft, if they have had all these succesful years, it may come with such price. Drafting high would not get them enough quality players on the long run, to replenish all the positions.
Now it's more about good coaching than anything else, to get back on track.
Remember: the Steelers are built by the draft, if they have had all these succesful years, it may come with such price. Drafting high would not get them enough quality players on the long run, to replenish all the positions.
Now it's more about good coaching than anything else, to get back on track.
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written by cramden, October 07, 2011 - 02:30 AM
written by cramden, October 07, 2011 - 02:30 AM
Heinz Ward should have been released after his drunk driving arrest.
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written by Paul Hartman, October 07, 2011 - 03:03 AM
written by Paul Hartman, October 07, 2011 - 03:03 AM
Then here's the cutting of Starks and Adams, two starters last year, who appeared unnecessary this year, according to the coaches. So what happened?
Everyone now seems to be saying the battered offensive line is full of holes? Should one or two of those defensive cuts have been turned into backups for the offensive line?
Everyone now seems to be saying the battered offensive line is full of holes? Should one or two of those defensive cuts have been turned into backups for the offensive line?
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written by t2pyah, October 07, 2011 - 03:50 AM
Aaron Smith probably should have been cut - and then brought back at significantly reduced $ to be a backup.
The $ tied up in Smith could/should have been used to acquire another quality body for the OL.
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written by t2pyah, October 07, 2011 - 03:50 AM
Aaron Smith probably should have been cut - and then brought back at significantly reduced $ to be a backup.
The $ tied up in Smith could/should have been used to acquire another quality body for the OL.
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written by davey boy, October 07, 2011 - 05:42 AM
written by davey boy, October 07, 2011 - 05:42 AM
Good blog Bob. Interesting analysis. I think between Colbert, Tomlin, Rooney, and Kahn, the Steelers will begin to reshape next year. It may be premature, but we may have to just grin and bear it for this year.
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written by GenoSid, October 07, 2011 - 06:12 AM
written by GenoSid, October 07, 2011 - 06:12 AM
How much better would $4.5 million for Flozell Adams instead of Aaron Smith look right about now?
We have/had capable replacements for Smith. He definitely should be replaced.
Signing Farrior to an extension a few years ago signaled a shift for the normally cold blooded Steelers management. No surprise they kept him.
Does Stevenson Sylvest have a future? Unless you think so, no reason not to keep Farrior.
The Steelers have no replacement for Hampton.
Ward should have been retained for his leadership, but he should be the #4 WR at this point.
I think most understood that this would be one last kick at the can for this version of the Steelers.
They have used up all of this year's cap and a good chunk of next year's to make this run.
Looks like we will fall short, but the pieces are there for a quick rebuild. Lose any more ground to the Ravens and they should begin the process...
Start Hood, Heyward and Lewis on the defense. Start Alonzo Jackson, I mean...Jason Worilds when he gets healthy. Find out what you have.
It seems like they quietly have replaced Ward with Brown at #2 WR. Continue that and move Sanders to #3.
Move Gilbert to LT. Let him learn the position this year, rather than next year.
Somehow, find a NT and a few OL in next year's draft.
We have/had capable replacements for Smith. He definitely should be replaced.
Signing Farrior to an extension a few years ago signaled a shift for the normally cold blooded Steelers management. No surprise they kept him.
Does Stevenson Sylvest have a future? Unless you think so, no reason not to keep Farrior.
The Steelers have no replacement for Hampton.
Ward should have been retained for his leadership, but he should be the #4 WR at this point.
I think most understood that this would be one last kick at the can for this version of the Steelers.
They have used up all of this year's cap and a good chunk of next year's to make this run.
Looks like we will fall short, but the pieces are there for a quick rebuild. Lose any more ground to the Ravens and they should begin the process...
Start Hood, Heyward and Lewis on the defense. Start Alonzo Jackson, I mean...Jason Worilds when he gets healthy. Find out what you have.
It seems like they quietly have replaced Ward with Brown at #2 WR. Continue that and move Sanders to #3.
Move Gilbert to LT. Let him learn the position this year, rather than next year.
Somehow, find a NT and a few OL in next year's draft.
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written by Steelers252006, October 07, 2011 - 06:23 AM
written by Steelers252006, October 07, 2011 - 06:23 AM
Agree with Aberham, Saneman, GenoSid, most everybody's assessments. Keeping A. Smith, who they could have seen was clearly not the same player, without taking a pay cut, while showing what they think of him, was probably not the best move. Farrior has lost it to the point where he should be nothing more than a bit player, agreed. Hines can still contribute but not at the salary he is making. If he wants another year next year, for example, he should be asked to take a pay cut. C. Hampton is one of the biggest surprises. Looks like he's no longer the undeniable beast in there. Still look at what he's given us now for so long!! Steelers should have thought ahead a little better on that one. Still, overall, I think this team has a good nucleus in place and will transition over with some of the younger guys they pick up and keep right on winning. This year may be a little tough, but I'm not ready to write the season off quite yet.
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written by GenoSid, October 07, 2011 - 06:26 AM
written by GenoSid, October 07, 2011 - 06:26 AM
"By doing that, they let players know of their loyalty, which increases, greatly, the ability of obtaining and keeping quality players.
That is the Rooney style."
No, actually...the Rooney style HAD been to use them up and then let someone else overpay on their last contract. See Joey Porter and a dozen before him...
In keeping with that...there was one name left off of the list...Troy Polamalu.
I would have not resigned him. I would have kept him this year and franchised him next year. That will squeeze most of the juice left out of him.
Unfair, yes? But...that would have been the best move for the club.
PS- Matt Cooke is currently the NHL's Art Ross (and Rocket Richard) trophy leader.
That is the Rooney style."
No, actually...the Rooney style HAD been to use them up and then let someone else overpay on their last contract. See Joey Porter and a dozen before him...
In keeping with that...there was one name left off of the list...Troy Polamalu.
I would have not resigned him. I would have kept him this year and franchised him next year. That will squeeze most of the juice left out of him.
Unfair, yes? But...that would have been the best move for the club.
PS- Matt Cooke is currently the NHL's Art Ross (and Rocket Richard) trophy leader.
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written by Jopa-n, October 07, 2011 - 06:31 AM
written by Jopa-n, October 07, 2011 - 06:31 AM
Aaron Smith was the only player that even deserved to even be considered for replacement from the roster. I was thinking that only because it was the second year, in a few, where injuries claimed him where age may be the main culprit.
Casey Hampton? O.K., who are you gonna put in his place as the key cog to your 3-4 defense? He's the only real true 3-4 NT on the team. I always thought they would beef up Ziggy a tad more to play that position when he was drafted.
Keisel? I buried him (way too early years ago). He seemed like he got it going since then. Another thing to consider is even if you think about jettison starters, who's is gonna back up the former backups? Giving the starting position up is one thing, falling off the map is another.
Hines? Yeah, he is not a speedster and even then, may have lost a step. He should not be playing opposite Wallace. That should be another young burner. Point being you put the savvy veteran in the middle against LB's and SS's and Hines can still have a pretty good year.
Everyone of these guys stays even if they don't start. The only move or lack of that befuddles me is that they have not attempted to groom a TRUE NT to come in and get ready to play with Hampton, being that it is the key to the success of their run defense.
Maybe Tomlin and Colbert have different ideas for the future?
Casey Hampton? O.K., who are you gonna put in his place as the key cog to your 3-4 defense? He's the only real true 3-4 NT on the team. I always thought they would beef up Ziggy a tad more to play that position when he was drafted.
Keisel? I buried him (way too early years ago). He seemed like he got it going since then. Another thing to consider is even if you think about jettison starters, who's is gonna back up the former backups? Giving the starting position up is one thing, falling off the map is another.
Hines? Yeah, he is not a speedster and even then, may have lost a step. He should not be playing opposite Wallace. That should be another young burner. Point being you put the savvy veteran in the middle against LB's and SS's and Hines can still have a pretty good year.
Everyone of these guys stays even if they don't start. The only move or lack of that befuddles me is that they have not attempted to groom a TRUE NT to come in and get ready to play with Hampton, being that it is the key to the success of their run defense.
Maybe Tomlin and Colbert have different ideas for the future?
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written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 06:32 AM
written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 06:32 AM
The Steelers did the right thing, Hood isn't ready yet and either is Heyward. The problem is that Woodley, Timmons have been invisible and Harrison has been slowed by his back surgeries.
The Steelers defense is dependant on the linebackers to make plays, especially splash plays. They have yet to make a difference. Time will tell
``Hood isn't ready yet?'' He started most of last season on a team that went to the SB and was rock-solid against the run. --- Bob Smizik
The Steelers defense is dependant on the linebackers to make plays, especially splash plays. They have yet to make a difference. Time will tell
``Hood isn't ready yet?'' He started most of last season on a team that went to the SB and was rock-solid against the run. --- Bob Smizik
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written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 06:48 AM
written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 06:48 AM
Last year should have been the swan song for this past its time group of football players. That team had no business making the Super Bowl and further exposed the NFL as a declining, truly mediocre entertainment vehicle that will continue to thrill those infatuated with fantasy football and drinking lots of beer on Sunday afternoons.
Hines should have been told to get on with his life work following the Super Bowl. That would have been much easier if Artii wouldn't have meddled in onfield affairs by ordering the GIVING AWAY of Santonio Holmes.
The Steelers are 2-2 and finished. Well they should be anyhow. However, they play in Roger Goody Two Shoes NFL and can still easily limp to an 11-5 record, another playoff berth and be wheeled into another Subpar Bowl.
Gotta love those salary caps.
Hines should have been told to get on with his life work following the Super Bowl. That would have been much easier if Artii wouldn't have meddled in onfield affairs by ordering the GIVING AWAY of Santonio Holmes.
The Steelers are 2-2 and finished. Well they should be anyhow. However, they play in Roger Goody Two Shoes NFL and can still easily limp to an 11-5 record, another playoff berth and be wheeled into another Subpar Bowl.
Gotta love those salary caps.
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written by John Lease, October 07, 2011 - 06:53 AM
written by John Lease, October 07, 2011 - 06:53 AM
Since it seems like Max Starks is coming right back to the starting lineup, I guess some old guys are still needed.
The Steelers never look good in a season after a Superbowl, at least not since the 1970's.
The Steelers never look good in a season after a Superbowl, at least not since the 1970's.
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written by wilzim, October 07, 2011 - 06:59 AM
written by wilzim, October 07, 2011 - 06:59 AM
Bob:
It is certainly embarrassing for the Steelers defense that they have not plugged the run. Perhaps Farrior and Smith are on the downward spiral, but they are not out yet. The defense is not as stellar a unit as they were in 2010 and 2008. Closer to '07 and '09.
If Dick LeBeau cannot figure out how to make this level of talent perform better, I will eat my hat. The Steelers have the best pass defense in the NFL at present, and that is shades of 2008. The defense is not losing us games, just not winning them for us as they did in '08 and '10.
The offensive line is the problem. It is losing us games. It will lose us our franchise QB if that hole cannot be plugged.
Best regards,
Will
It is certainly embarrassing for the Steelers defense that they have not plugged the run. Perhaps Farrior and Smith are on the downward spiral, but they are not out yet. The defense is not as stellar a unit as they were in 2010 and 2008. Closer to '07 and '09.
If Dick LeBeau cannot figure out how to make this level of talent perform better, I will eat my hat. The Steelers have the best pass defense in the NFL at present, and that is shades of 2008. The defense is not losing us games, just not winning them for us as they did in '08 and '10.
The offensive line is the problem. It is losing us games. It will lose us our franchise QB if that hole cannot be plugged.
Best regards,
Will
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:01 AM
Gee whiz Bob, this seems like a discussion about "rebuilding" a veteran team? - No?
OK, perhaps you'd be more comfortable with the word "re-tooling"? - Is that more to your liking?
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:01 AM
Gee whiz Bob, this seems like a discussion about "rebuilding" a veteran team? - No?
OK, perhaps you'd be more comfortable with the word "re-tooling"? - Is that more to your liking?
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written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:01 AM
Meathead:
without those salary caps, the Steelers and Packers become the Pirates and Royals of the NFL. Teams like the Cowgirls, Deadskins and Cheatriots would win every year.
Food for thought.
written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:01 AM
Meathead:
without those salary caps, the Steelers and Packers become the Pirates and Royals of the NFL. Teams like the Cowgirls, Deadskins and Cheatriots would win every year.
Food for thought.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:07 AM
Bob and his millions, and millions of blogging Smizimaniacs,
I have two questions for you all today, one Steeler related, the other Penguin related, and would appreciate any and all feedback on both.
First the Steeler question. - Based on radio talk, it sounds like Sunday's offensive line will look like this....
Gilbert - RT
Foster - RG
Pouncey - C
Legurski - LG
Starks - LT
The question is, is it just me, or does anyone else believe the following line would seem better?
Gilbert - RT
Essex - RG
Pouncey - C
Foster - LG
Starks - LT
I know Essex failed miserably last week at LT, but it seems to me he has been OK at guard throughout his career?
Interested in anyone else's thoughts on the matter.
Thank you for your consideration. (That's me being kindler and gentler).
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:07 AM
Bob and his millions, and millions of blogging Smizimaniacs,
I have two questions for you all today, one Steeler related, the other Penguin related, and would appreciate any and all feedback on both.
First the Steeler question. - Based on radio talk, it sounds like Sunday's offensive line will look like this....
Gilbert - RT
Foster - RG
Pouncey - C
Legurski - LG
Starks - LT
The question is, is it just me, or does anyone else believe the following line would seem better?
Gilbert - RT
Essex - RG
Pouncey - C
Foster - LG
Starks - LT
I know Essex failed miserably last week at LT, but it seems to me he has been OK at guard throughout his career?
Interested in anyone else's thoughts on the matter.
Thank you for your consideration. (That's me being kindler and gentler).
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written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:09 AM
Hostage, in your quest to be kinder and gentler, you forgot the Penguin question.
I will mail you some Ginko pills for an assist.
written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:09 AM
Hostage, in your quest to be kinder and gentler, you forgot the Penguin question.
I will mail you some Ginko pills for an assist.
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written by Darkhorses, October 07, 2011 - 07:13 AM
written by Darkhorses, October 07, 2011 - 07:13 AM
"By doing that, they let players know of their loyalty, which increases, greatly, the ability of obtaining and keeping quality players."
Franco who?
Franco who?
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written by Brant, October 07, 2011 - 07:13 AM
written by Brant, October 07, 2011 - 07:13 AM
*t was abundantly clear last year that that Hines was about done. Dropping balls he would have caught before and clearly had lost a step. And I couldn't agree more with GenoSid. The Steelers may be sorry that they signed the deal with Polamalu. He's an injury waiting to happen and is on the wrong side of 30.
This was a discussion of who should have been cut this season. I don't think anyone believed Polamalu was in that group. Not saying you are wrong about his extension. --- Bob Smizik
This was a discussion of who should have been cut this season. I don't think anyone believed Polamalu was in that group. Not saying you are wrong about his extension. --- Bob Smizik
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written by rocky kay, October 07, 2011 - 07:17 AM
written by rocky kay, October 07, 2011 - 07:17 AM
Bryant McFadden may not have been kept for sentimental reason, but they cut Crezdon Butler to keep him. The last two weeks McFadden has been a healthy scratch. That appears to be an egregious mistake.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:19 AM
OK, now with question # 2 out to Bob and his millions and millions of blogging Smizimaniacs....
The Penguins have been recipients of much acclaim both locally and nationally for their brand of public relations and customer service. Sentiment seems to be, that for the most part, the Penguins seem to always do all the right things when it comes to public relations and customer service. (In dramatic contrast to the team that occupies BFD's ballpark, but I won't go there today).
My question is, who within the Penguin organization is responsible for this brand of public relations and customer service?
David Morehouse?
Travis Williams?
I don't imagine it would be Mario Lemiuex or Ron Burkle, but I suppose it's possible.
My guess is Morehouse, but I really don't know.
I'd really appreciate input as to who is responsible for instilling the powerful public relations focus that resides within the Pittsburgh Penguin organization.
It is an aspect of the Penguins I much admire.
And again, thank you for your consideration.
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:19 AM
OK, now with question # 2 out to Bob and his millions and millions of blogging Smizimaniacs....
The Penguins have been recipients of much acclaim both locally and nationally for their brand of public relations and customer service. Sentiment seems to be, that for the most part, the Penguins seem to always do all the right things when it comes to public relations and customer service. (In dramatic contrast to the team that occupies BFD's ballpark, but I won't go there today).
My question is, who within the Penguin organization is responsible for this brand of public relations and customer service?
David Morehouse?
Travis Williams?
I don't imagine it would be Mario Lemiuex or Ron Burkle, but I suppose it's possible.
My guess is Morehouse, but I really don't know.
I'd really appreciate input as to who is responsible for instilling the powerful public relations focus that resides within the Pittsburgh Penguin organization.
It is an aspect of the Penguins I much admire.
And again, thank you for your consideration.
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written by heartbeatsings, October 07, 2011 - 07:23 AM
Are the Steelers too sentimental? Yes, especially Coach Tomlin.
In fact, I believe that this was the main reason the Steelers lost the Super Bowl. Coach Tomlin played Harrison and Troy when they were not healthy and they underperformed. Apparently the standard isn't the standard after all.
This season is looking like 1980 all over again, except the Steelers won that Super Bowl before they fell off a cliff.
written by heartbeatsings, October 07, 2011 - 07:23 AM
Are the Steelers too sentimental? Yes, especially Coach Tomlin.
In fact, I believe that this was the main reason the Steelers lost the Super Bowl. Coach Tomlin played Harrison and Troy when they were not healthy and they underperformed. Apparently the standard isn't the standard after all.
This season is looking like 1980 all over again, except the Steelers won that Super Bowl before they fell off a cliff.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:27 AM
Roger Roger,
I separated out the Penguin question into a stand alone post so as to not be overly verbose.
But dude....you didn't answer my Steeler question.
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:27 AM
Roger Roger,
I separated out the Penguin question into a stand alone post so as to not be overly verbose.
But dude....you didn't answer my Steeler question.
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written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:32 AM
Hostage,
You verbose? Surely you jest, and I know, dont call you Shirley............
The second Steeler line looks better, maybe start Legursky over Foster.
I believe Morehouse is mainly responsible for the Penguins PR success, but I remember reading somewhere that Shero has input also, sort of like being able to run things past someone in the "operations" side of the team. But they are the best at PR, by a mile.
written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 07:32 AM
Hostage,
You verbose? Surely you jest, and I know, dont call you Shirley............
The second Steeler line looks better, maybe start Legursky over Foster.
I believe Morehouse is mainly responsible for the Penguins PR success, but I remember reading somewhere that Shero has input also, sort of like being able to run things past someone in the "operations" side of the team. But they are the best at PR, by a mile.
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written by price.pittsburgh, October 07, 2011 - 07:34 AM
written by price.pittsburgh, October 07, 2011 - 07:34 AM
The 1980 team had just won it's 4th Super Bowl in 6 years and it's second in a row twice.
They certainly looked as if they were aging vs San Diego and many forget what a blessing it was that Houston upset the Chargers in SD to bring the AFC title game back to Pittsburgh, much like the Jets upsetting NE last year.
No one really considered that a back up like Vince Ferragamo almost winning the game wasn't a good sign.
Probably because the Steelers still held the Rams to 19 points and recorded 5 sacks.
I agree that it's difficult to assume an AFC Championship team who had a chance to win a Super Bowl again is in decline.
Especially when you consider that the run defense of 2010 was so dominant that even a fall off in 2011 shouod still ahve made it the bet if not one of the best in 2011.
No one could have predicted this much of a drop off in production.
The writing really wasn't on the wall vs Pats, Saints and The Pack because the problem in those games was with the secondary not the players we are speking of.
They certainly looked as if they were aging vs San Diego and many forget what a blessing it was that Houston upset the Chargers in SD to bring the AFC title game back to Pittsburgh, much like the Jets upsetting NE last year.
No one really considered that a back up like Vince Ferragamo almost winning the game wasn't a good sign.
Probably because the Steelers still held the Rams to 19 points and recorded 5 sacks.
I agree that it's difficult to assume an AFC Championship team who had a chance to win a Super Bowl again is in decline.
Especially when you consider that the run defense of 2010 was so dominant that even a fall off in 2011 shouod still ahve made it the bet if not one of the best in 2011.
No one could have predicted this much of a drop off in production.
The writing really wasn't on the wall vs Pats, Saints and The Pack because the problem in those games was with the secondary not the players we are speking of.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:41 AM
Roger Roger,
Thank you for the prompt response. Your opinion is much appreciated.
(Kindler and gentler).
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 07:41 AM
Roger Roger,
Thank you for the prompt response. Your opinion is much appreciated.
(Kindler and gentler).
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written by smoke, October 07, 2011 - 07:52 AM
written by smoke, October 07, 2011 - 07:52 AM
nutting hostage, in regards to essex playing guard, last season tomlin benched essex in favor of ramon foster at right guard because according to tomlin essex performance was 'below the line'.
bob, you forgot to put ryan clark on the list of steelers who should not have been re-signed 2 seasons ago. They should of let him sign with miami. The only time we see clark make a play now is when he gets beat by a receiver and is chasing them from behind , trying and failing most of the time to tackle them.
Steve Mclendon should be getting more playing time. The steelers need to see if mclendon looks like a playmaker who is going to follow the footsteps of fellow nfl players from troy (DeMarcus Ware, Osi Umenyiora , Leodis McKelvin).
bob, you forgot to put ryan clark on the list of steelers who should not have been re-signed 2 seasons ago. They should of let him sign with miami. The only time we see clark make a play now is when he gets beat by a receiver and is chasing them from behind , trying and failing most of the time to tackle them.
Steve Mclendon should be getting more playing time. The steelers need to see if mclendon looks like a playmaker who is going to follow the footsteps of fellow nfl players from troy (DeMarcus Ware, Osi Umenyiora , Leodis McKelvin).
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written by BlueSinSav, October 07, 2011 - 07:54 AM
The funny thing about people clamoring that the Steelers should have Adams and Starks on the team...weren't they the same ones bashing the OL last year?
written by BlueSinSav, October 07, 2011 - 07:54 AM
The funny thing about people clamoring that the Steelers should have Adams and Starks on the team...weren't they the same ones bashing the OL last year?
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written by lambert58, October 07, 2011 - 08:27 AM
written by lambert58, October 07, 2011 - 08:27 AM
Your memories of 1980 are cloudy. It wasn`t age that did them in; it was a horrible streak of injuries. Sam Davis blew out a knee in camp. Larry Anderson, a great kick returner, blew out a knee on opening kickoff in the very first regular season game (in which they stomped Houston 34-17). The injuries then really started piling up. At one point in mid-season they went up to Cleveland with Stoudt at QB, Hawthorne at RB and NINE other starters out on offense and defense. Even with backups at half the positions, they only lost 27-26 and Cleveland celebrated as if they`d won the Super Bowl.
They later lost to Houston 6-0, again with many starters injured. Without the injuries, that was SB champ #5.
They later lost to Houston 6-0, again with many starters injured. Without the injuries, that was SB champ #5.
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written by genius, October 07, 2011 - 08:27 AM
written by genius, October 07, 2011 - 08:27 AM
Amazing how our offense especially the line is making our defense look old.
Check the stats, the defense is not what it was but it's not bad either and it's not why we're 2-2 despite the lack of sacks and turnovers thus far, which I believe will come in due course.
Check the stats, the defense is not what it was but it's not bad either and it's not why we're 2-2 despite the lack of sacks and turnovers thus far, which I believe will come in due course.
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written by kevin morris, October 07, 2011 - 08:29 AM
written by kevin morris, October 07, 2011 - 08:29 AM
Too late to undo the roster decisions, but they could still move Hines to a lesser role and give Wallace a credible threat to work with.
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written by Joe D, October 07, 2011 - 08:29 AM
written by Joe D, October 07, 2011 - 08:29 AM
Nice...
The person that should have been cut to free up cap space and get a FA OL was Aaron Smith. Injured 2 years straight... and injured again.
The other I would have cut was Farrior...
The problem is... Steelers are still starting these senior citizens instead of putting the youth in. You can't develop your backup or replacement without playing time.
Hampton, Ward, Kiesel should be relegated to backup duty immediately... and cut next year if they don't retire!!!
However, that doesn't solve the OL problem... but if Steelers free up the money, perhaps they can land an OL from FA market in winter along with whatever they draft. This year, money was sooo tight, they could not spend on OL!! Next year is worse...
The person that should have been cut to free up cap space and get a FA OL was Aaron Smith. Injured 2 years straight... and injured again.
The other I would have cut was Farrior...
The problem is... Steelers are still starting these senior citizens instead of putting the youth in. You can't develop your backup or replacement without playing time.
Hampton, Ward, Kiesel should be relegated to backup duty immediately... and cut next year if they don't retire!!!
However, that doesn't solve the OL problem... but if Steelers free up the money, perhaps they can land an OL from FA market in winter along with whatever they draft. This year, money was sooo tight, they could not spend on OL!! Next year is worse...
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written by lambert58, October 07, 2011 - 08:31 AM
written by lambert58, October 07, 2011 - 08:31 AM
RE: Cutting Crezdon Butler. That surprised me too, but where is he now? Not exactly tearing up the league.
Flozell, Flozell, Flozell...the word is he wants $5 million. There are a dozen other teams that need O-Linemen, yet nobody has signed Flozell. So we`re not the only stupids.
Flozell, Flozell, Flozell...the word is he wants $5 million. There are a dozen other teams that need O-Linemen, yet nobody has signed Flozell. So we`re not the only stupids.
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written by carisi_99, October 07, 2011 - 08:33 AM
written by carisi_99, October 07, 2011 - 08:33 AM
I am not sure that money spent on Flozell would have been any better, who's to say he wasn't done too? Not like he is in his 20s.
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written by Paxter, October 07, 2011 - 08:36 AM
written by Paxter, October 07, 2011 - 08:36 AM
Agree with Genius, the D didn't lose that game to Houston. The O-line is the most glaring weakness. As for the others, there is still a place for them on the team, albeit at a reduced supporting role. Farrior is already playing less and Smith is out this week. What about Timmons and Woodley? Not over the hill, but definitely not performing.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 08:50 AM
Crezdon Butler was claimed off waivers by the Arizona Cardinals and subsequently placed on injured reserve in late September.
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 08:50 AM
Crezdon Butler was claimed off waivers by the Arizona Cardinals and subsequently placed on injured reserve in late September.
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written by Maine Bucs Fan, October 07, 2011 - 08:51 AM
written by Maine Bucs Fan, October 07, 2011 - 08:51 AM
Yeah Farrior is too old but isn't he leading the team in tackles?
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written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 08:51 AM
written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 08:51 AM
"without those salary caps, the Steelers and Packers become the Pirates and Royals of the NFL. Teams like the Cowgirls, Deadskins and Cheatriots would win every year."
there you have it! roger squared absolves Bob Nutting of the blame for the Pirates 19 year run. I'm picking the Mets to beat the Red Sox in the World Series this year.
there you have it! roger squared absolves Bob Nutting of the blame for the Pirates 19 year run. I'm picking the Mets to beat the Red Sox in the World Series this year.
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written by Jack, October 07, 2011 - 08:57 AM
written by Jack, October 07, 2011 - 08:57 AM
Had the Steelers not made the Super Bowl last year, I would have been in favor of a major housecleaning. But it's hard to fault them. I thought these guys had one more Super Bowl run left in them. Who knows, maybe they still do.
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written by BlueSinSav, October 07, 2011 - 09:04 AM
This would have been better for the other article, but I'm not sure how many are still looking at it.
Does anyone know if the player that injured Ben's foot ankle was fined? I believe he was penalized on the play.
written by BlueSinSav, October 07, 2011 - 09:04 AM
This would have been better for the other article, but I'm not sure how many are still looking at it.
Does anyone know if the player that injured Ben's foot ankle was fined? I believe he was penalized on the play.
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written by rocky kay, October 07, 2011 - 09:17 AM
written by rocky kay, October 07, 2011 - 09:17 AM
Crezdon was placed on IR with a dislocated wrist with the Cardinals.
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written by jilted32, October 07, 2011 - 09:22 AM
In the end, I would say
1) it's worth the risk of keeping a Super Bowl team together and trying again, even if it may backfire and you have a subpar season with these "old" guys; and, 2) the old fellows don't necessarily need to be cut, if they really want to play in Pittsburgh perhaps they can renegotiate their contracts and have a smaller role on the field. Isn't that what Bettis did in his last season?
written by jilted32, October 07, 2011 - 09:22 AM
In the end, I would say
1) it's worth the risk of keeping a Super Bowl team together and trying again, even if it may backfire and you have a subpar season with these "old" guys; and, 2) the old fellows don't necessarily need to be cut, if they really want to play in Pittsburgh perhaps they can renegotiate their contracts and have a smaller role on the field. Isn't that what Bettis did in his last season?
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written by SteelVa2, October 07, 2011 - 09:30 AM
Yes indeed. And therein lies the problem.
As for Farrior, he was done in '09 when he personally lost 3 games in the 4Q in which he couldn't cover a slow-footed RB like Leonard out of the backfield. His '10 season was no better; he just wasn't abused in such obvious situations, but his play was far, far from anything superb or strong. Quite clearly, both he and Smith should have been politely shown the door as cap cuts. That, in turn, would have freed up some $$ to sing a competent O-lineman, rather than relying on the likes of the Scott Brothers (sic).
written by SteelVa2, October 07, 2011 - 09:30 AM
(Rueda)Now it's more about good coaching than anything else, to get back on track.
Yes indeed. And therein lies the problem.
As for Farrior, he was done in '09 when he personally lost 3 games in the 4Q in which he couldn't cover a slow-footed RB like Leonard out of the backfield. His '10 season was no better; he just wasn't abused in such obvious situations, but his play was far, far from anything superb or strong. Quite clearly, both he and Smith should have been politely shown the door as cap cuts. That, in turn, would have freed up some $$ to sing a competent O-lineman, rather than relying on the likes of the Scott Brothers (sic).
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written by Steelcity, October 07, 2011 - 09:35 AM
written by Steelcity, October 07, 2011 - 09:35 AM
"The Steelers may be sorry that they signed the deal with Polamalu. He's an injury waiting to happen and is on the wrong side of 30."- Brant
It seems like I'm the only one on this blog willing to defend Troy and his recent contract. He is the best player on defense and has proven it time and time again- a key interception, a key sack, etc. It will take years before they find his equal.
I would waiver all our other DB's before I part ways with Troy.
PS: Nose tackle will have to be our first pick in the coming draft- I see no other choice.
No one is disputing his ability or his worth. It's just that allowing him to play out his contract this season and franchising him in 2012 might have been a more prudent course. -- Bob Smizik
It seems like I'm the only one on this blog willing to defend Troy and his recent contract. He is the best player on defense and has proven it time and time again- a key interception, a key sack, etc. It will take years before they find his equal.
I would waiver all our other DB's before I part ways with Troy.
PS: Nose tackle will have to be our first pick in the coming draft- I see no other choice.
No one is disputing his ability or his worth. It's just that allowing him to play out his contract this season and franchising him in 2012 might have been a more prudent course. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Max, October 07, 2011 - 09:38 AM
written by Max, October 07, 2011 - 09:38 AM
...
Bob is being too kind. I don't think the Steelers let SENTIMENT overrule SENSE in SELECTING the roster, although the alliteration is nice.
The Steelers flat out made bad decisions. They misjudged the talent they have amassed. ("misjudge" and "amass" is the best alliteration Max could come up with.)
They are wedded to first round choice Hood, and they saw a lot of him last year with Smith out. Yet they kept Smith this year. Because Hood has been as invisible as Woodley and Timmons this year, in this case maybe they are telling us that Hood is not that good.
They had no choice but to bring Hampton back. There is no replacement for him. Tells you what they think of Hoke, who has been on the team many years, but doesn't have nearly the playing time that Hampton does.
The classic example under Cowher was Okobi, the guy who looked like Shrek. He was everybody's favorite backup, but turns out he couldn't make the team as a starter. Did AZ pick him up, and not keep him?
It's not sentiment. It's faulty personnel decisions, on both sides of the ball.
You can't fault the players for resigning - they are just looking out for their own best interests. Just like you can't fault a child for asking for candy - it's the adult's fault if they give them the candy.
According to many media reports, the Steelers are in a tough position, capwise, this year and worse next year. Cutting players is only a partial answer, because remaining money all hits the current year in some cases. The Steelers, Max has read, have about $2 million dead money this year and next for Starks, in addition to his $800k contract this year.
Bad decisions on contracts and talent is going to hurt the Steelers for a few years.
Bob is being too kind. I don't think the Steelers let SENTIMENT overrule SENSE in SELECTING the roster, although the alliteration is nice.
The Steelers flat out made bad decisions. They misjudged the talent they have amassed. ("misjudge" and "amass" is the best alliteration Max could come up with.)
They are wedded to first round choice Hood, and they saw a lot of him last year with Smith out. Yet they kept Smith this year. Because Hood has been as invisible as Woodley and Timmons this year, in this case maybe they are telling us that Hood is not that good.
They had no choice but to bring Hampton back. There is no replacement for him. Tells you what they think of Hoke, who has been on the team many years, but doesn't have nearly the playing time that Hampton does.
The classic example under Cowher was Okobi, the guy who looked like Shrek. He was everybody's favorite backup, but turns out he couldn't make the team as a starter. Did AZ pick him up, and not keep him?
It's not sentiment. It's faulty personnel decisions, on both sides of the ball.
You can't fault the players for resigning - they are just looking out for their own best interests. Just like you can't fault a child for asking for candy - it's the adult's fault if they give them the candy.
According to many media reports, the Steelers are in a tough position, capwise, this year and worse next year. Cutting players is only a partial answer, because remaining money all hits the current year in some cases. The Steelers, Max has read, have about $2 million dead money this year and next for Starks, in addition to his $800k contract this year.
Bad decisions on contracts and talent is going to hurt the Steelers for a few years.
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written by alexpo, October 07, 2011 - 09:41 AM
written by alexpo, October 07, 2011 - 09:41 AM
So far, people are overreacting. Baltimore and Houston are going to be playoff teams. Not many teams are going to beat them in their own cribs. It's no shame losing to either one of them.
Now sooner or later, you have to beat a good team yourself if you want to be considered a good team. Tennessee appears to be better than a lot of people thought they were going to be. This is a game the Steelers could very well lose, but this is a game in their own backyard that they have to win if they're going to be a playoff team.
A win this Sunday and the Steelers are back on track. A loss, then yes it's time to flip on the panic switch.
Now sooner or later, you have to beat a good team yourself if you want to be considered a good team. Tennessee appears to be better than a lot of people thought they were going to be. This is a game the Steelers could very well lose, but this is a game in their own backyard that they have to win if they're going to be a playoff team.
A win this Sunday and the Steelers are back on track. A loss, then yes it's time to flip on the panic switch.
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written by Max, October 07, 2011 - 09:45 AM
written by Max, October 07, 2011 - 09:45 AM
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@NuHO
re Penguins excellent approach to PR
When answering questions of this type, remember what Max says:
IT ALL STARTS AT THE TOP!
If Burkle and Lemieux did not have a good PR approach, the organization would not. Remember it was the young Lemieux, already a star, who would play street hockey with kids on the street in Mt Lebanon.
Max doesn't know what company you work for, but apply that there. The top people set the tone.
It works for the Steelers - we say "The Rooney way".
It works for the Pirates - we mock Nutting almost daily here.
And I'm sure Bob knows of examples where the owner or senior editors at the PG set a tone that carried all the way down through the organization.
@NuHO
re Penguins excellent approach to PR
When answering questions of this type, remember what Max says:
IT ALL STARTS AT THE TOP!
If Burkle and Lemieux did not have a good PR approach, the organization would not. Remember it was the young Lemieux, already a star, who would play street hockey with kids on the street in Mt Lebanon.
Max doesn't know what company you work for, but apply that there. The top people set the tone.
It works for the Steelers - we say "The Rooney way".
It works for the Pirates - we mock Nutting almost daily here.
And I'm sure Bob knows of examples where the owner or senior editors at the PG set a tone that carried all the way down through the organization.
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written by bennett8111, October 07, 2011 - 09:47 AM
written by bennett8111, October 07, 2011 - 09:47 AM
The once frugal Rooney's have let sentiment get in the way of reality. Instead of bolstering up an offensive line with a few free agents and higher draft picks, they paid the guys that brung 'em to the dance and that shows an awful lack of foresight. The OLine constantly runs into these problems and despite the "two SB's in four years" mantra, it could have been addressed with a release of these cap guys. Polamalu is/was one knee injury from retirement, Farrior, Smith, Hampton and Keisel, all not worth the gamble. The FA's were there! NE got one, as usual, as they have little sentiment and move 'em out at the first sign of decay, and that is why I fully expect to see them in Indy! Thanks guys, see you at the ten year reunion...
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written by AHaberman35, October 07, 2011 - 09:48 AM
written by AHaberman35, October 07, 2011 - 09:48 AM
Alexpo, The question of over reacting is debatable but I fully agree that this is a huge test game for the Steelers on Sunday. Tennessee appears to be a good but not great team. They are a team that's tough to play against but one that a good team should beat at home.
I think we will have a lot better idea of who the Steelers are after this game is over...for better or for worse.
I think we will have a lot better idea of who the Steelers are after this game is over...for better or for worse.
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written by saneman, October 07, 2011 - 09:49 AM
written by saneman, October 07, 2011 - 09:49 AM
roger roger
Meathead:
Wrong, the Steelers have more of a revenue base than teams like the Patriots and are more willing to spend money than the Pats. Only the Cowboys can have a much higher revenue income if there was no revenue sharing. Steelers and GB can hold their own in a free market because football market IS NOT THE SAME as the local baseball market. Pirates are small market, Pens are mid market, Steelers are big market. If Steelers started a Steelers TV network like the Yanks have their own, they could rake in huge money. Only the Cowboys combine the Steelers national appeal with the local luxury revenue of a big market team. Redskins and Giants are close too but not at the same level as the Cowboys.
Meathead:
without those salary caps, the Steelers and Packers become the Pirates and Royals of the NFL. Teams like the Cowgirls, Deadskins and Cheatriots would win every year.
Wrong, the Steelers have more of a revenue base than teams like the Patriots and are more willing to spend money than the Pats. Only the Cowboys can have a much higher revenue income if there was no revenue sharing. Steelers and GB can hold their own in a free market because football market IS NOT THE SAME as the local baseball market. Pirates are small market, Pens are mid market, Steelers are big market. If Steelers started a Steelers TV network like the Yanks have their own, they could rake in huge money. Only the Cowboys combine the Steelers national appeal with the local luxury revenue of a big market team. Redskins and Giants are close too but not at the same level as the Cowboys.
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written by SteelerMark, October 07, 2011 - 09:55 AM
To me the Steelers did the best thing, by keeping the older fellas, in every instance. Now whether certain players should continue to start or not is another matter.
I can't think of a case where the team had a better option than to keep the veteran, but more time on the field for younger players could be argued. Hines is really a TE/Slot guy, and should only play as a posession receiver. Maybe Smith should be in an every other series circumstance? Farrior is great leader and perfect "share time" with Foote player.
The only blatant favoritism I've seen with the Steelers is Mendenhall. His use to the exclusion of Redman, and his use at the goal instead of the "short yardage back" defies logic, and leaves but one explanation. Hopefully that situation is about to end.
written by SteelerMark, October 07, 2011 - 09:55 AM
To me the Steelers did the best thing, by keeping the older fellas, in every instance. Now whether certain players should continue to start or not is another matter.
I can't think of a case where the team had a better option than to keep the veteran, but more time on the field for younger players could be argued. Hines is really a TE/Slot guy, and should only play as a posession receiver. Maybe Smith should be in an every other series circumstance? Farrior is great leader and perfect "share time" with Foote player.
The only blatant favoritism I've seen with the Steelers is Mendenhall. His use to the exclusion of Redman, and his use at the goal instead of the "short yardage back" defies logic, and leaves but one explanation. Hopefully that situation is about to end.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 09:56 AM
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 09:56 AM
I too am willing to give them a pass for erring on the side of a talented group of All-Timers who have given us much to cheer about...most of whom are on defense, IMO they'll get it together one more time, not in dominant fashion, but will play well enough to give this team a chance to succeed.
The problem I do have lies with this management team & staff for not adequately addressing the unit responsible for protecting their franchise player. The O-Line has been indecline, to some extent, since the franchise QB revealed himself to SteelerNation...THREE offensive linemen selected out of the top FOURTEEN choices in the past SEVEN drafts.
It now appears that the cumulative abuse incurred -to the tune of 300+ times sacked & at least that many times pillaged- as a result of this glaring team deficiency, may well have taken an irreversible toll on the franchise QB.
He is beginning to show obvious signs of that compounded wear & tear, at times almost appearing shell-shocked, while competing valiantly. What I fail to understand is the prevailing wisdom by some here that the O-line is not as much of a concern...I say it was/is/will be the PRIMARY concern, as the longevity of the franchise QB now appears to be in serious jeopardy!
But don't you think cutting of some expensive veterans would have given them the cap room to go after better O linemen? -- Bob Smizik
The problem I do have lies with this management team & staff for not adequately addressing the unit responsible for protecting their franchise player. The O-Line has been indecline, to some extent, since the franchise QB revealed himself to SteelerNation...THREE offensive linemen selected out of the top FOURTEEN choices in the past SEVEN drafts.
It now appears that the cumulative abuse incurred -to the tune of 300+ times sacked & at least that many times pillaged- as a result of this glaring team deficiency, may well have taken an irreversible toll on the franchise QB.
He is beginning to show obvious signs of that compounded wear & tear, at times almost appearing shell-shocked, while competing valiantly. What I fail to understand is the prevailing wisdom by some here that the O-line is not as much of a concern...I say it was/is/will be the PRIMARY concern, as the longevity of the franchise QB now appears to be in serious jeopardy!
But don't you think cutting of some expensive veterans would have given them the cap room to go after better O linemen? -- Bob Smizik
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written by richie, October 07, 2011 - 09:58 AM
written by richie, October 07, 2011 - 09:58 AM
Yeah so far it looks like some players have stayed too long and have lost a step. It happened to the 70s Steelers too.
BTW great game by the Pens last night. I'm a little short on sleep but it was worth staying up for. Too bad it does not get talked about in here
BTW great game by the Pens last night. I'm a little short on sleep but it was worth staying up for. Too bad it does not get talked about in here
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written by lomez969, October 07, 2011 - 09:59 AM
written by lomez969, October 07, 2011 - 09:59 AM
written by John Lease, October 07, 2011 - 06:53 AM
The Steelers never look good in a season after a Superbowl, at least not since the 1970's.
Then how do you explain them winning 2 in a row twice?
He said ``since the 70s.'' -- Bob Smizik
The Steelers never look good in a season after a Superbowl, at least not since the 1970's.
Then how do you explain them winning 2 in a row twice?
He said ``since the 70s.'' -- Bob Smizik
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written by lomez969, October 07, 2011 - 10:01 AM
written by lomez969, October 07, 2011 - 10:01 AM
@John Lease
My apologies, I misread your post. Sorry
My apologies, I misread your post. Sorry
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written by Hanover Bill, October 07, 2011 - 10:07 AM
I'm just not buying into the over the hill sentiment. I don't believe that these guys went to the Super Bowl last year, and all of a sudden over the span of one off season they aged to the point that they can no longer play at a high level, it just doesn't make sense.
If anything I am more inclined to believe that they are suffering from a lack of tough conditioning and preparedness. It takes these older players a while longer to round into shape, and with the easy training camp, and lack of any organized off season conditioning, I think we are seeing the results now.
We will know more as the season plays out, but I expect the level of play to improve as these guys round into better game shape, only time will tell if the Steelers held some of them too long.
written by Hanover Bill, October 07, 2011 - 10:07 AM
I'm just not buying into the over the hill sentiment. I don't believe that these guys went to the Super Bowl last year, and all of a sudden over the span of one off season they aged to the point that they can no longer play at a high level, it just doesn't make sense.
If anything I am more inclined to believe that they are suffering from a lack of tough conditioning and preparedness. It takes these older players a while longer to round into shape, and with the easy training camp, and lack of any organized off season conditioning, I think we are seeing the results now.
We will know more as the season plays out, but I expect the level of play to improve as these guys round into better game shape, only time will tell if the Steelers held some of them too long.
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written by bennett8111, October 07, 2011 - 10:15 AM
written by bennett8111, October 07, 2011 - 10:15 AM
I do believe that Vince Manuwai of the Jags is still out there if we (if?) need another guard...why not take a look?
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 10:22 AM
Deep?
Without A. Smith yet?
If Smith was released, as you & many others said he should have been, and Keisel is injured at any point in the season (at 33 that is highly probable), where is the DEPTH???
Truth be told, we were saying the same thing about the DL as we are/were about the OL, prior to Ziggy & Ironhead Jr. being chosen in the first round within the past two years...the DL still does not have enough depth.
FWIW...IMHO reports precdicting the demise of Keisel are a bit premature...the Deisel's still got some fuel left in the tank.
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 10:22 AM
With two No. 1 draft choices, Ziggy Hood (2009) and Cameron Heyward (2011) at the position and not starting, the Steelers were too at deep defensive end at the expense of other positions. -- BS
Deep?
Without A. Smith yet?
If Smith was released, as you & many others said he should have been, and Keisel is injured at any point in the season (at 33 that is highly probable), where is the DEPTH???
Truth be told, we were saying the same thing about the DL as we are/were about the OL, prior to Ziggy & Ironhead Jr. being chosen in the first round within the past two years...the DL still does not have enough depth.
FWIW...IMHO reports precdicting the demise of Keisel are a bit premature...the Deisel's still got some fuel left in the tank.
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written by North Side, October 07, 2011 - 10:23 AM
written by North Side, October 07, 2011 - 10:23 AM
Saneman...Check out Forbes on NFL revenue by team. The big three Dallas, Washington and New England are far above the crowd.
The Steelers are middle of the pack.
And in franchise value the Cowpokes have double the "Value" of the Steelers.
The Steelers are middle of the pack.
And in franchise value the Cowpokes have double the "Value" of the Steelers.
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written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 10:24 AM
written by Nutting Hostage, October 07, 2011 - 10:24 AM
Bob,
A wise man once said...."Calls for the Steelers to enter a rebuilding phase are nonsense. Teams with an elite quarterback, to say nothing of a high-quality receiving core, do not rebuild."
You seem to think phasing out a few veterans is rebuilding. I don't. --- Bob Smizik
But don't you think cutting of some expensive veterans would have given them the cap room to go after better O linemen? -- Bob Smizik
A wise man once said...."Calls for the Steelers to enter a rebuilding phase are nonsense. Teams with an elite quarterback, to say nothing of a high-quality receiving core, do not rebuild."
You seem to think phasing out a few veterans is rebuilding. I don't. --- Bob Smizik
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written by oneppurp, October 07, 2011 - 10:32 AM
written by oneppurp, October 07, 2011 - 10:32 AM
I wouldn't have brought back Smith, Ward or Farrior. I bring back Hampton only because there isn't anyone to take his place.
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written by Steelcity, October 07, 2011 - 10:34 AM
written by Steelcity, October 07, 2011 - 10:34 AM
No one is disputing his ability or his worth (Troy Polamalu). It's just that allowing him to play out his contract this season and franchising him in 2012 might have been a more prudent course. -- Bob Smizik
It may have been prudent if you really thought he was finished as a football player.
It would be quite expensive having to re-sign him after the 2012. The salaries are only going up.
It may have been prudent if you really thought he was finished as a football player.
It would be quite expensive having to re-sign him after the 2012. The salaries are only going up.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 10:49 AM
Yes & no Bob...definitely agree that cutting "some" veterans would have given them more space...Farrior definitely IMO, but you cited the exact reason they did not, he bounced back and played solidly in 2010. Perhaps A. Smith & Hampton as well, however the depth is just not there in order to do so. Cutting one or both would have rendered this unit a weakness IMO.
I contend that overpaying Willie Colon, at the expense of Max Starks & Flozell Adams no less, were by far the most significant moves/non-moves made by this management team in 2011. Accordingly, it is the primary reason for the CURRENT state of inadequacy of this O-Line...the OVERALL status being the failure of the management/staff to acquire & develop talent.
I said this before here & I think it bears repeating;
As hard as it is for me to admit, Tom Brady left quite a pile of change at the negotiating table in order to free up money towards rebuilding...Ben had the same option when he opted for all NINE figures, just sayin'.
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 10:49 AM
But don't you think cutting of some expensive veterans would have given them the cap room to go after better O linemen? -- Bob Smizik
Yes & no Bob...definitely agree that cutting "some" veterans would have given them more space...Farrior definitely IMO, but you cited the exact reason they did not, he bounced back and played solidly in 2010. Perhaps A. Smith & Hampton as well, however the depth is just not there in order to do so. Cutting one or both would have rendered this unit a weakness IMO.
I contend that overpaying Willie Colon, at the expense of Max Starks & Flozell Adams no less, were by far the most significant moves/non-moves made by this management team in 2011. Accordingly, it is the primary reason for the CURRENT state of inadequacy of this O-Line...the OVERALL status being the failure of the management/staff to acquire & develop talent.
I said this before here & I think it bears repeating;
As hard as it is for me to admit, Tom Brady left quite a pile of change at the negotiating table in order to free up money towards rebuilding...Ben had the same option when he opted for all NINE figures, just sayin'.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:20 AM
meathead,
Santonio "the midnight toker" Holmes?
He's all yours, you can have him!
Did you watch SNF last week, Tone's Jets were trailing by 20* late in the third quarter & he's doing his signature celebration "first down drop" after converting on a six yard catch?!?
Captain Holmes...lol
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:20 AM
Hines should have been told to get on with his life work following the Super Bowl. That would have been much easier if Artii wouldn't have meddled in onfield affairs by ordering the GIVING AWAY of Santonio Holmes
meathead,
Santonio "the midnight toker" Holmes?
He's all yours, you can have him!
Did you watch SNF last week, Tone's Jets were trailing by 20* late in the third quarter & he's doing his signature celebration "first down drop" after converting on a six yard catch?!?
Captain Holmes...lol
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written by Dobreshunka, October 07, 2011 - 11:25 AM
written by Dobreshunka, October 07, 2011 - 11:25 AM
The Steelers have certainly let sentiment overrule sense at the running back position this year.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:26 AM
should have read...
Did you watch SNF last week,Tone's Jets were trailing by 20* late in the third quarter
Tone's Jets were being embarrassed by nearly 30 late in the third quarter & he's doing his signature celebration "first down drop" after converting on a six yard catch?!?
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:26 AM
should have read...
Did you watch SNF last week,
Tone's Jets were being embarrassed by nearly 30 late in the third quarter & he's doing his signature celebration "first down drop" after converting on a six yard catch?!?
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:46 AM
Shouldn't have even been flagged IMO...Pouncey practically threw J.J. Watt into Ben leading to Watt hitting Ben in the right hip...flag is only supposed to be thrown if the contact is at or below the knee of the QB, in this case it wasn't even close...horrible call IMO.
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:46 AM
Does anyone know if the player that injured Ben's foot ankle was fined? I believe he was penalized on the play.
Shouldn't have even been flagged IMO...Pouncey practically threw J.J. Watt into Ben leading to Watt hitting Ben in the right hip...flag is only supposed to be thrown if the contact is at or below the knee of the QB, in this case it wasn't even close...horrible call IMO.
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written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 11:57 AM
written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 11:57 AM
haven't won a Super Bowl without Tone.
Could have won another one with him
Could have won another one with him
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:57 AM
If you are referring to that despicable human HaynesworthLESS, you can have him, I don't care if he outperforms Ngata for All- Pro Bowl honors, he's a cancer in the room.
btw, BeliCHEAT can't even get his lazy worthless @$$ on the field, not even for practice. Look at the daily injury reports, one thing is common in each:
Haynesworth...did not participate!
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 11:57 AM
The FA's were there! NE got one, as usual, as they have little sentiment and move 'em out at the first sign of decay, and that is why I fully expect to see them in Indy!
If you are referring to that despicable human HaynesworthLESS, you can have him, I don't care if he outperforms Ngata for All- Pro Bowl honors, he's a cancer in the room.
btw, BeliCHEAT can't even get his lazy worthless @$$ on the field, not even for practice. Look at the daily injury reports, one thing is common in each:
Haynesworth...did not participate!
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:08 PM
NOPE...Kraft is a billionaire, who astutely takes advantage of the mythical perception of the "Patriot way/Belicick genius" which allows them to lure top talent at below market value.
Even more puzzling to me are fellow owners like Al "Just Wince Baby" Davis who seem "Prideful & Poised" to play right into Kraft's hand at the urging of BeliCHEAT...see the Moss & Seymour deals in which Kraft & Co. had their collective way with the old crumudgeon by the bay, whom the game has passed by in the HOV lane.
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:08 PM
Wrong, the Steelers have more of a revenue base than teams like the Patriots and are more willing to spend money than the Pats.
NOPE...Kraft is a billionaire, who astutely takes advantage of the mythical perception of the "Patriot way/Belicick genius" which allows them to lure top talent at below market value.
Even more puzzling to me are fellow owners like Al "Just Wince Baby" Davis who seem "Prideful & Poised" to play right into Kraft's hand at the urging of BeliCHEAT...see the Moss & Seymour deals in which Kraft & Co. had their collective way with the old crumudgeon by the bay, whom the game has passed by in the HOV lane.
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written by sac35, October 07, 2011 - 12:24 PM
written by sac35, October 07, 2011 - 12:24 PM
Some of the comments about Hines Ward seem to be ignoring the facts. During the first 4 games the receiving stats are: Wallace Targeted: 31 Rec: 25, Brown Targeted: 33 Rec: 15, Ward Targeted: 23 Rec: 13. Miller Targeted: 17 Rec: 12, Sanders Targetd: 13 Rec: 7. Hines also has 37 yards after catch to Browns 16. And by my judgement, at least 3 passes thrown to him, he was open but the pass
was thrown too far or behind him.
The point being that right now Hines Ward is the #3 or 4 option in the passing offense and has been reqasonably productive in that role. I think what is affecting his production is the fact that the offensive line is allowing pressure to teams rushing just 4 or 5 guys and that gives Ben very little time to find the third option and gives the defense the ability to double cover three of the four receivers. If youmlook at his big catches, I'd bet most have come when Ben had time to throw and found him open as the thrid option.
My feeling is they should consider plays where he is the first option, particularly on 1st and 2nd down in play action passing. Send the two outs deep and look for Hines underneath for 7 - 15 yards. More often then not I beleive that play would produce results.
was thrown too far or behind him.
The point being that right now Hines Ward is the #3 or 4 option in the passing offense and has been reqasonably productive in that role. I think what is affecting his production is the fact that the offensive line is allowing pressure to teams rushing just 4 or 5 guys and that gives Ben very little time to find the third option and gives the defense the ability to double cover three of the four receivers. If youmlook at his big catches, I'd bet most have come when Ben had time to throw and found him open as the thrid option.
My feeling is they should consider plays where he is the first option, particularly on 1st and 2nd down in play action passing. Send the two outs deep and look for Hines underneath for 7 - 15 yards. More often then not I beleive that play would produce results.
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written by Poz, October 07, 2011 - 12:26 PM
written by Poz, October 07, 2011 - 12:26 PM
I felt the team had one more serious run toward a Super Bowl as presently constructed. I based it upon factors such as(a) A healthy Pouncy, Polamalu and Harrison and (b) Young receivers with another year's experience. What I did not expect were more injuries to the offensive line and degraded performance from younger players - like Woodley. If this was the thinking of the Steelers, that the team had more more shot left, then I don't fault them for the moves made, and not made.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:27 PM
Actually they won SBXL the year before he arrived, but who's counting.
It could more accurately be stated that Holmes has not gotten to the Big Dance without the Steelers, failing to do so even when they were the only ones standing between him & Super Sunday.
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:27 PM
haven't won a Super Bowl without Tone.
Could have won another one with him
Actually they won SBXL the year before he arrived, but who's counting.
It could more accurately be stated that Holmes has not gotten to the Big Dance without the Steelers, failing to do so even when they were the only ones standing between him & Super Sunday.
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written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:45 PM
meathead-
Thx. bro, I have my moments!
written by BlitzBurghDude, October 07, 2011 - 12:45 PM
meathead-
Thx. bro, I have my moments!
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written by Bobby Riddle, October 07, 2011 - 01:31 PM
written by Bobby Riddle, October 07, 2011 - 01:31 PM
Here's a potential replacement at ILB for a mid round pick.
Per ESPN:
One week after benching linebacker Aaron Curry, a former fourth overall pick in the draft, Seattle is listening to offers for him, according to a source familiar with the process. The same source said the Seahawks already have spoken to "a number of teams about him" and are willing to take a mid-round pick for him.
The signs continue to point to the end of Curry's time in Seattle. Shortly after the lockout, the Seahawks restructured Curry's contract. Last week they benched him. And now they are open to dealing him in the right situation for a fair price before the Oct. 18 trade deadline.
Two teams this week said that, in the right system, Curry, 25, still could salvage his career and turn into a superb linebacker.
Per ESPN:
One week after benching linebacker Aaron Curry, a former fourth overall pick in the draft, Seattle is listening to offers for him, according to a source familiar with the process. The same source said the Seahawks already have spoken to "a number of teams about him" and are willing to take a mid-round pick for him.
The signs continue to point to the end of Curry's time in Seattle. Shortly after the lockout, the Seahawks restructured Curry's contract. Last week they benched him. And now they are open to dealing him in the right situation for a fair price before the Oct. 18 trade deadline.
Two teams this week said that, in the right system, Curry, 25, still could salvage his career and turn into a superb linebacker.
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written by Bobby Riddle, October 07, 2011 - 01:34 PM
written by Bobby Riddle, October 07, 2011 - 01:34 PM
Hines Ward has been a heck of player for this organization (to say the least), but I would definitely put him into the category of letting sentiment overule sense.
They throw him at least one quick screen a game, that goes for 0-2 yards. Are they just trying to get him 1000 catches?
They throw him at least one quick screen a game, that goes for 0-2 yards. Are they just trying to get him 1000 catches?
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written by burgh1972, October 07, 2011 - 01:50 PM
written by burgh1972, October 07, 2011 - 01:50 PM
Thoughts:
- The only knock on Diesel is his injury history but he should have had a position. He's still productive when out there but this should be his last season unless he's willing to take less as a backup. Heyward has to play.
- Smith should have been asked to retire and Hood put in his place. That 5 mill could have gotten them better OL help.
- Farrier should have retired as well. He'll have a good game here or there but his time is past and Timmons should have been moved into his spot with Foote returning to his past roll. Also, there were lot's of ILB's to be had for cheap in free agency.
- Hampton's backup should have been handled in the past 2 drafts. When you have a player that every year has a weight issue, likes to joke about how he doesn't try to keep in shape and is aging that usually equates to someone who can drop off the map real quick.
- Agree with your thoughts on Ward, he had to be brought back because the others are too young. Just look at how the react after a play....
- The only knock on Diesel is his injury history but he should have had a position. He's still productive when out there but this should be his last season unless he's willing to take less as a backup. Heyward has to play.
- Smith should have been asked to retire and Hood put in his place. That 5 mill could have gotten them better OL help.
- Farrier should have retired as well. He'll have a good game here or there but his time is past and Timmons should have been moved into his spot with Foote returning to his past roll. Also, there were lot's of ILB's to be had for cheap in free agency.
- Hampton's backup should have been handled in the past 2 drafts. When you have a player that every year has a weight issue, likes to joke about how he doesn't try to keep in shape and is aging that usually equates to someone who can drop off the map real quick.
- Agree with your thoughts on Ward, he had to be brought back because the others are too young. Just look at how the react after a play....
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written by Rbilak, October 07, 2011 - 02:19 PM
written by Rbilak, October 07, 2011 - 02:19 PM
The Steeler way is to pay their own free agents. I understand this and it is hard to argue with it. No team stays on top forever.
That said, paying Foote and Farrior starting money was a poor decision. That money should have gone to a tackle.
Ward was on his downslide last year, still I don't see how they could have cut him, however they should have set him down in the offseason and said playing time will be down. Starting him now hurts Wallace.
Keisel, still has something in the tank.
Hampton, the failure was not drafting a nose tackle to replace him.
Smith, I would not have brought back, too many injuries too short of a time.
The Steelers are a victim of their own success. They stuck with them a year too long. It stinks but I can understand why. Six months after a Super Bowl you think you have one more year. They ignored an offensive line and instead spent money on positions they didn't need. Now we are paying for it. Max Starks is starting Sunday? WOW
That said, paying Foote and Farrior starting money was a poor decision. That money should have gone to a tackle.
Ward was on his downslide last year, still I don't see how they could have cut him, however they should have set him down in the offseason and said playing time will be down. Starting him now hurts Wallace.
Keisel, still has something in the tank.
Hampton, the failure was not drafting a nose tackle to replace him.
Smith, I would not have brought back, too many injuries too short of a time.
The Steelers are a victim of their own success. They stuck with them a year too long. It stinks but I can understand why. Six months after a Super Bowl you think you have one more year. They ignored an offensive line and instead spent money on positions they didn't need. Now we are paying for it. Max Starks is starting Sunday? WOW
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written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 02:24 PM
Thank yous to North Side, and BlitzBurghDude for making my point about salary caps and revenue in pertaining to the Steelers.
Dan Rooney himself openly worried back in the 2006 CBA negotiations about the growing rift between the haves, and have-nots in the NFL, and also worried about Jones, Snyder and Kraft being able to bury other owners.
And dont forget, it was Art Rooney, The Chief, who was able to convince the Maras(Giants), and Halases(Bears), to accept the original revenue-sharing model back in the 60's, and Dan Rooney, who was instrumental in the implementation of Free Agency, and the salary cap in the early 90's.
Without these two events, who knows what would have happened to the Steelers.........
written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 02:24 PM
Thank yous to North Side, and BlitzBurghDude for making my point about salary caps and revenue in pertaining to the Steelers.
Dan Rooney himself openly worried back in the 2006 CBA negotiations about the growing rift between the haves, and have-nots in the NFL, and also worried about Jones, Snyder and Kraft being able to bury other owners.
And dont forget, it was Art Rooney, The Chief, who was able to convince the Maras(Giants), and Halases(Bears), to accept the original revenue-sharing model back in the 60's, and Dan Rooney, who was instrumental in the implementation of Free Agency, and the salary cap in the early 90's.
Without these two events, who knows what would have happened to the Steelers.........
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written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 02:42 PM
All I can say to you is WOW.
And you are wrong.
written by roger roger, October 07, 2011 - 02:42 PM
written by Meathead, October 07, 2011 - 08:51 AM
"without those salary caps, the Steelers and Packers become the Pirates and Royals of the NFL. Teams like the Cowgirls, Deadskins and Cheatriots would win every year."
there you have it! roger squared absolves Bob Nutting of the blame for the Pirates 19 year run. I'm picking the Mets to beat the Red Sox in the World Series this year.
All I can say to you is WOW.
And you are wrong.
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written by Krankor, October 07, 2011 - 03:10 PM
written by Krankor, October 07, 2011 - 03:10 PM
I say the Steelers did *exactly* the right thing in bringing all those guys back. Here's why it was the right move to bring back Smith and Farrior:
1) Neither guy had shown clear evidence of being over the hill. Indeed, as noted, Farrior had played strong last year.
2) In the case of Smith, there was really nobody to take his place if you dump him. Yes, we have two #1 picks at DE, but Heyward clearly wasn't going to be ready to play much yet this year. And with age of the other guys on the d-line, you know you're probably going to need to play every d-lineman you keep on the roster (especially with the rotation system they use), so you'd better keep the best 6-7 you've got, period. Who else was available who would've been better than what Smith projected at for this year?
3) MOST IMPORTANT: Keeping these guys around too long is only a problem if doing so means you have to let guys go who would've been more valuable to the team, this year or in the long run. Just who would that be? I don't remember any great gnashing of teeth when the final cuts were made. Who were the great prospects that could've been kept if we cut the older gentlemen? I seem to recall that the biggest question was which 3rd string tight end we'd keep. Big deal.
All of this argues that we were right in keeping these guys. However, that doesn't address the other question: should they be *starting*? Perhaps not. If one wants to argue that guys like Hood and Foote should be starting and the older guys used to provide quality, experienced backups, I'm not sure I'd argue against that. But even if you've got Hood taking the snaps and Smith riding the pine, it's still better to have him there on the bench and available than the afterthougths we ended up cutting.
1) Neither guy had shown clear evidence of being over the hill. Indeed, as noted, Farrior had played strong last year.
2) In the case of Smith, there was really nobody to take his place if you dump him. Yes, we have two #1 picks at DE, but Heyward clearly wasn't going to be ready to play much yet this year. And with age of the other guys on the d-line, you know you're probably going to need to play every d-lineman you keep on the roster (especially with the rotation system they use), so you'd better keep the best 6-7 you've got, period. Who else was available who would've been better than what Smith projected at for this year?
3) MOST IMPORTANT: Keeping these guys around too long is only a problem if doing so means you have to let guys go who would've been more valuable to the team, this year or in the long run. Just who would that be? I don't remember any great gnashing of teeth when the final cuts were made. Who were the great prospects that could've been kept if we cut the older gentlemen? I seem to recall that the biggest question was which 3rd string tight end we'd keep. Big deal.
All of this argues that we were right in keeping these guys. However, that doesn't address the other question: should they be *starting*? Perhaps not. If one wants to argue that guys like Hood and Foote should be starting and the older guys used to provide quality, experienced backups, I'm not sure I'd argue against that. But even if you've got Hood taking the snaps and Smith riding the pine, it's still better to have him there on the bench and available than the afterthougths we ended up cutting.
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written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 04:04 PM
written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 04:04 PM
Ziggy Hood has been terrible this year, the Steelers weren't ready to hand the job to him.
Talk to people who scout the Steelers and they will tell you Ziggy can't handle the run
Talk to people who scout the Steelers and they will tell you Ziggy can't handle the run
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written by Daquido_Bazzini, October 07, 2011 - 04:32 PM
written by Daquido_Bazzini, October 07, 2011 - 04:32 PM
I think sentiment played a slight part in the current roster, but I think the lockout played an even bigger part.
By the time the labor dispute was ended, the Steeler FO wasn't about to make any drastic moves.
They simply hoped they would get one more year out of about a half a dozen vets.
Apparently....It's not going to work that way.
Bob - I think your assessment was (for the most part) correct.
My only debates would be:
a) I think they should've parted ways with Aaron Smith in TC. He looked pretty questionable in pre-season, and I think it was time for Ziggy Hood to take over. They had a couple guys (McClendon and Bryant) that showed fairly well in pre-season. They also would've gotten more salary cap relief if Smith was let go. The good news is they will get that salary cap relief this coming off-season, as there is no way Smith will be back.
b) As you mentioned, Hampton is playing a position that usually does people in by the age of 30. I believe they should've kept him this year....But.....They should've brought someone in (draft or FA) to prepare to take his place. They've made no attempt to draft a nose tackle the past couple of years, and it is biting them now.
c) I believe Ryan Clark should be included in the list above.
Clark has not played that well since '08 in my opinion.
By the time the labor dispute was ended, the Steeler FO wasn't about to make any drastic moves.
They simply hoped they would get one more year out of about a half a dozen vets.
Apparently....It's not going to work that way.
Bob - I think your assessment was (for the most part) correct.
My only debates would be:
a) I think they should've parted ways with Aaron Smith in TC. He looked pretty questionable in pre-season, and I think it was time for Ziggy Hood to take over. They had a couple guys (McClendon and Bryant) that showed fairly well in pre-season. They also would've gotten more salary cap relief if Smith was let go. The good news is they will get that salary cap relief this coming off-season, as there is no way Smith will be back.
b) As you mentioned, Hampton is playing a position that usually does people in by the age of 30. I believe they should've kept him this year....But.....They should've brought someone in (draft or FA) to prepare to take his place. They've made no attempt to draft a nose tackle the past couple of years, and it is biting them now.
c) I believe Ryan Clark should be included in the list above.
Clark has not played that well since '08 in my opinion.
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written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 04:55 PM
written by SonnyDrysdale, October 07, 2011 - 04:55 PM
Smith had his contract extended thru 2012 to make cap room for Max Starks
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written by saneman, October 08, 2011 - 12:26 AM
The Forbes revenue models is based onthe system AS IT EXISTS NOW. Steelers have a bigger national base than the Pats. But since NAtional TV revnues, ticket sales, and merchandising are shared equally, teams like the Steelers and Green Bay actually are pulling their own weight in generating revenue for this league. What the Steelers lack is a huge corporate base to get luxury revenue such as Dallas, NY, or Washington. But if it was a free for all, if the Rooneys get creative, there are opportunities out there. Of course, Dallas would be the Yankees of the NFL under a free for all system because they match the Steelers with fan reach and match the Redskins with the corporate/political luxury box revenue. Kraft is a billionaire. Sure. But the Rooneys are damn rich too. The Pats have a lot of recent fans, but their global reach is still not that huge. Just look at the superbowl ratings involving Steelers teams. Even when they face a non marquee team like the Cards or Seahawks, they have huge ratings.
If there was a free for all, guess what Steelers won't be hurting. That is all I am saying. They would be free to sell their own merchandise. They would be free to set up their own TV networks. They would be free to set up agreements with other clubs that have trouble selling their own stadium seats to sell tickets to steelers fans via a Steeler ticket network. There are many ways for them to be creative.
Like I said, the Steelers are in a huge football market. The Pens are in a midsize market thanks to the astute Pens management expanding the small market size. The Pirates are in a tiny market that will continue to shrink.
written by saneman, October 08, 2011 - 12:26 AM
Saneman...Check out Forbes on NFL revenue by team. The big three Dallas, Washington and New England are far above the crowd.
The Steelers are middle of the pack.
And in franchise value the Cowpokes have double the "Value" of the Steelers.
The Forbes revenue models is based onthe system AS IT EXISTS NOW. Steelers have a bigger national base than the Pats. But since NAtional TV revnues, ticket sales, and merchandising are shared equally, teams like the Steelers and Green Bay actually are pulling their own weight in generating revenue for this league. What the Steelers lack is a huge corporate base to get luxury revenue such as Dallas, NY, or Washington. But if it was a free for all, if the Rooneys get creative, there are opportunities out there. Of course, Dallas would be the Yankees of the NFL under a free for all system because they match the Steelers with fan reach and match the Redskins with the corporate/political luxury box revenue. Kraft is a billionaire. Sure. But the Rooneys are damn rich too. The Pats have a lot of recent fans, but their global reach is still not that huge. Just look at the superbowl ratings involving Steelers teams. Even when they face a non marquee team like the Cards or Seahawks, they have huge ratings.
If there was a free for all, guess what Steelers won't be hurting. That is all I am saying. They would be free to sell their own merchandise. They would be free to set up their own TV networks. They would be free to set up agreements with other clubs that have trouble selling their own stadium seats to sell tickets to steelers fans via a Steeler ticket network. There are many ways for them to be creative.
Like I said, the Steelers are in a huge football market. The Pens are in a midsize market thanks to the astute Pens management expanding the small market size. The Pirates are in a tiny market that will continue to shrink.
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written by Cattnips, October 08, 2011 - 02:56 AM
written by Cattnips, October 08, 2011 - 02:56 AM
I think it is the coaching and coaching decisions. I agree with the post questioning how 6 guys suddenly aged a few months after the 2010 season. Really?
Me? i would have kept Fonzell and Starks. And in re history, i would have kept Santonio holmes. And....i would stop the cheap tricks of picking anyone to try to get lucky rather than spend a few bucks.
Me? i would have kept Fonzell and Starks. And in re history, i would have kept Santonio holmes. And....i would stop the cheap tricks of picking anyone to try to get lucky rather than spend a few bucks.
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So be it. This group was one score away from it's third Super Bowl championship in seven years. This group has given us the second best era in Steelers history.
With this team, I'd rather the Steelers err on year too late than one year too early. They've earned it.