You choose to remember Joe for his wins rather than taking part in the covering up of molesting a child? Sounds like odd, flawed logic.
I am no PSU hater, But this taints EVERYTHING. Taking part in a cover up is as bad as taking part.

Well said Bob - they all must go!

What a sad chapter in Penn State history this is and will be. Obviously this will be the end for Joe Paterno, and what a sad commentary that is for a man who has contributed so much to college football, and Penn State in particular. The only decision left to make regarding Joe, is whether they will allow him to go out gracefully, at the end of the season, or if he will be fired in the immediate future, along with the others who were complicit in these events. I for one hope that he is allowed to finish out the season and retire with some degree of respect. His legacy will be tarnished enough by these events, there is no need to further the humiliation.

There is a valuable lesson to be learned by all of us here. No one is bigger than the laws that govern our society. Politicians have tried to circumvent them, as have others in positions of power, such as these athletic figures, but in the end they usually pay the price for their arrogance, and that is as it should be. All of these troubles could have been avoided if the proper procedures had been followed in the first place, what a sad situation we find ourselves in because these procedures were ignored by people in power.

Amen, Bob. You are right on!!!! It is a shame what was covered up but no one person is higher than then the outcome of what happens to our young people. I applaud your stance on this issue.

I agree. This is painful. I left Pennsylvania decades ago but continued to follow my state university and Paterno. This is a zero tolerance subject. Innocent until proven guilty, but there's a lot of smoke here.

Best case for Paterno is that he was told by his bosses that they investigated and found no reason to pursue it. But he still has to go. Regardless of how this turns out, it will taint his legacy. Really sad. But really angry also.

A bit over the top aren't you Bob? I refuse to believe that Joe Paterno condoned this type of behavior.

Tremendous overreaction to this.

Burn them at the stake while you're at it.

Yes Sandusky is the devil but lets wait for the rest of the story.



I did not say Paterno `condoned' this type of action. -- Bob Smizik

The post says Paterno reported an episode, is that meant to imply that he knew it to be to have occurred with certainty, or should it say that he reported an alleged incident.

If Paterno did not have certain knowledge that the allegation was true, then the fact that Sandusky was allowed to retire honorably should not be held against him, in my opinion. As has been previously stated, Sandusky is to be considered innocent until proven guilty, and while there may be a lot of reason now to suspect that the charges are true, at the time Paterno reported the charge mentioned here, that may not have been the case but the present situation shouldn't necessarily indicate that Paterno acted inappropriately based on the information available at that time.

Bob.........It clearly states that Paterno did what he was supposed to do.........he reported it to his superiors.

Being a huge PSU fan, I am as disturbed as anyone. However, Joe did the right thing, it appears.

However, I DO agree that this should be his last year, but for reasons beyond the Sandusky scandal.

Foo

......



Did the right thing by allowing Sandusky to retire with honor and allowing him use of the football facilities where he could lure young boys? You must be joking. Read the indictment. -- Bob Smizik

Joe Paterno did what he was supposed to do: report the incident promptly to his immediate superior, A.D. Tim Curley. It's easy to criticize him in hindsight, nine years after the alleged behavior occurred, and say that he should have done more. However, I'm sure Paterno trusted Curley to deal with the matter appropriately. The fact that Curley (and Schulz) failed to do so should not be a reflection on Paterno.

I guess we'll just have to wait until the movie comes out to know all the facts: From Penn State to the State Pen: the Jerry Sandusky story.

I have grown up hating Penn State but still hate news of this story. The fact all of these officials were aware of multiple incidents yet brushed them under the rug is pathetic. Why didn't the graduate assistant go directly to the police? Or attack Sandusky when he witnessed him with a 10 year old? What would going to Paterno do? The right move would have been to get help immediately. Paterno may be innocent in the eyes of the law, but reporting it to a person above him is not enough, especially after Sandusky seemingly got off freely. Shame on Joe and anyone else who looked the other way.

I was thinking along those lines this morning. This might end up being the biggest scandal in college football history, and possibly all of sports history. This makes the Ohio State crap the scandalous equivalent of jaywalking.

I cannot think of a scandal that had the potential to knock down a bigger, more respected institution than Penn State and knock down a legend like Paterno, who is probably the biggest name in college football history.

In most cases the coverup is always worse then the original crime, in this case its not.

...

written by Max, November 05, 2011 - 09:00 PM
...
To recover from this, PSU trustees should clean house from Spanier on down. Even if they somehow fail to get a conviction on these guys, the university is forever stained. Spanier on down must go, to avoid the appearance of a cover up.

If the trustees don't act by about 10:00 AM Monday they begin to look complicit in a cover-up.

They don't have to fire anyone this week, but they should be on a leave of absence by the end of the day tomorrow.

...
It's a tough call on Paterno and the grad assistant.

They both did something, enough to cover themselves, BUT they didn't do as much as they could have. Maybe that is hindsight.

It is curious that the grad assistant hasn't been named, or did I miss that?

@ TheUnblogger
Joe most certainly condoned the behavior. We know he calls all the shots at PSU. He fired Sandusky by letting Sandusky retire with pride and keep all of his perks, most despicably, being able to be around boys. But Joe let him go by allowing Sandusky to say "I'll never be coach here." What Joe should have did is said we have a policy that doesn't allow pedophiles to coach or be around young men. I seriously doubt Sandusyky just started this in 94. I wouldn't be sirprised to hear more allegations. You just don't wake up at 47 and decide you want to start molesting kids.
If anyone can defend what Peterno and the higher ups did at PSU you are a totally biased apologist. I hope you don't have kids because I'd have to question your parenting ability. Would anybody send their kids to the Second Mile knowing a pedo was there?
I think we have a good portion, if we wait for the rest of the story it will make the rest of the university even worse, Joe himself. Joe had an obligation to go to the police. He might have followed university policy but didn't follow the law. It is especially troubling being an educator. If a no name teacher didn't report abuse many would want to burn him/her at the stake calling them unfit blah blah blah. But I guess if you are the all-time winning coach you get a pass because you didn't want to tarnish your legacy. I hope this removes him from the Hall of Fame.
If Joe knew about the abuses and didn't go to the police, shame on him and anyone who defends him. If I tell my bosses I think a kid is being molested I think I would def follow up and if I suspected anything was amiss I would go to the police myself. I would say "hey I reported to my bosses that kid was molested. Can you tell me if there has been a report, if not I want to file it myself." You have go tot question why Joe never questioned why he didn't hear a follow up. I am sure the police would have talked to him.
How is that presidential medal of freedom nomination looking now?
Sens. Bob Casey and Pat Toomey and Rep. Glenn Thompson, R-Centre, nominated the football legend in a letter to President Obama Wednesday.

"Coach Paterno over the years has shown tremendous character and loyalty," the letter reads. "Throughout his time at Penn State, he has remained committed to reaching goals without sacrificing the ideals that are central to higher education."

The medal is awarded for an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors.

Pitt fired Heyward within 24 hours of his allegations, the clock is still ticking at PSU.

Paterno was cleared of any wrongdoing, and the AG actually praised his handling of the incident. However, he had to have known something on some level... Or perhaps he is naive. Regardless, he is gone. He will not be fired. He will retire at the end of the season, but I believe that was the plan all along. Curley and Shultz should and will be fired. Spanier should be fired, but I think he will be spared. One thing that is clear is that things will never be the same at Penn State. The only way the program can stay at a high level is if they get a high profile coach with integrity who starts everything over from scratch.

Hi Bob: Very disturbing. It appears PSU officials - including Paterno - at the very least neglected to notify the police of the sexual assault. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to parse the blame just to the Curly and Shultz. Paterno could have notified the police even if Curly and Shultz decided not to. And I do believe he had an obligation to. I could also argue the grad assistant should have also called the police. I could see where the grad assistant might feel intimidated not to do anything - but I have trouble believing the same of Paterno.

The fact that PSU continued to support Sandusky - including Paterno, under the auspices of Emeritus status lends credence to the indictment.

Marnie in NYC

I don't know what a person's legal obligations are when they are told an accusation like this. But their moral obligation is not merely to take it to their immediate supervisor. Their moral obligation is to go to the police. On that basis, everyone who knew aobut the accusations must be fired, including Paterno.

Good for you Bob, for taking this stance. Penn State seems to be quite adept at covering up for a lot of things (most notably the climate-gate issues of leading researcher Michael Mann) within their walls. But this one isn't going away, and I think you're right - everyone's head will roll here.

Now we'll see whether Ron Cook has the guts to take a similar opinion. He seemingly couldn't wait to get columns out immediately after wrongdoings at Pitt (Sheard, Haywood) or OSU.

...

If anyone can defend what Peterno and the higher ups did at PSU . . .

Typo? Do we have an interesting test case for the kinder, gentler, no name calling blog?

Bob.........It clearly states that Paterno did what he was supposed to do.........he reported it to his superiors.

Being a huge PSU fan, I am as disturbed as anyone. However, Joe did the right thing, it appears.

I'm sorry, but wouldn't the right thing be to call the cops? If you have first hand knowledge that someone has sexually abused a child, why are you only telling your boss? And if you're not satisfied that your boss has called in the authorities, then why don't you take it upon yourself to do so? I'm sorry, but this amounts to criminal indifference in my mind.

Joe was Sandusky's superior. Reporting him to the AD was not enough. He should have gotten to the bottom of the issue as soon as he found out about it. He should have asked Sandusky to resign instead of letting him retire.

Regardless of when Joe goes now, his leaving will be tied to this scandal.

While this is a terrible incident that will shake the foundation of the university for years to come. But it is not the end of Penn State or the demise of the program. Today, I am an embarrassed and disgusted alum who hopes all parties involved get the book thrown at them. But despite being frivolous to discuss something as meaningless as football under the circumstances at hand, this will not be the end of Penn State football. It will shake the foundation of Penn State, but there will still be 110,000 in the stands for this weekends matchup against the cornhuskers and Penn State will still nail down a high profile replacement for Paterno. Whether or not recruiting will suffer remains to be seen. But if they clean house, I don't think that recruiting will be affected long term. I would even argue that a high profile coach would get better classes than Joe currently gets.

Seriously, can anyone think of a bigger scandal in college athletics history?

Any decent human stops the abuse while it is occuring and IMMEDIATELY reports it to the cops. Not wait.... & not tell their superior the next day.
This sounds like a classic case of putting a football programs image ahead of a young trusting kids life. Disgusting!

Bob:
The attack took place in 2002,Sandusky retired in 1999...are you suggesting Paterno knew of other Sandusky incidents prior to 2002 and should have done something in 1999 when Sandusky retired? If so,then Paterno was involved in a cover up of prior alleged incidents,not just the 2002 incident?


No. My concern is Paterno allowing Sandusky to full use of the football facility while knowing what he might be doing. -- Bob Smizik

Corri

...

If you have first hand knowledge that someone has sexually abused a child,

I agree with you, Paterno could have/should have done more. But he didn't have first hand knowledge, he only had a report from someone about what he thought he saw. I'm not a lawyer, but I've watched them on TV, and that makes a huge difference.

Still wondering who the grad assistant is, and why no mention of his name.

Bob, we have conversed before several times on the subject of Joe Paterno, but sadly, this situation is at a completely different level. I urge any of the commenters here who want to defend any of the participants in this reprehensible mess to read the actual grand jury report. I think you will change your mind pretty quickly. Curley and Wise are going to jail (as is Sandusky, although that is probably too good for him) and everyone else associated with this situation, especially including Spanier, should be fired by tomorrow morning. For the record, I am a PSU alum, class of 1980.

The Patriot News is reporting that Curley misunderstood Paterno and that he thought Joe was saying that Sandusky and a boy were "horsing around in the shower". What the hell???

...
http://www.countyofindiana.org/?q=cys3

Paterno was required, by law, to report this to Childline or de minimis, CYS. Simply reporting it to the AD was not sufficient.

But go on with the excuse-making for him and for the others.

In the meantime, I'll ask you all this: "What if it were your son in the shower with Sandusky? Do you believe that you would have found the handling of this acceptable?"

And who speaks for the children here who were raped and sodomized? Everyone seems very concerned with the various internal "investigations" done by the AD and the Campus Police somehow following the law despite circumventing it.

How might the lives of thses children be different had this man been stopped way back when? And here is a scary thought: "When did all this actually start?"

The lot of them need to go and need to go NOW. Not at the end of the season, not after the retirement announcement, now.

Jose

Every person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty...in a court of law. Court of public opinion is another matter entirely. Also, an employer isn't required to wait until a person is proven guilty in a court of law to take disciplinary action up to, and including termination. Every PSU employee, in my opinion, failed to act appropriately once the assault was witnessed,and should be terminated at once. Including Paterno.

Get the biggest broom you can find, and sweep them all out.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes.

That doesnt mean they should be allowed one more minute in their positions.

...
@ Scubog: There is a difference here between a determination of guilt regarding the alleged acts themselves and the fact that the law for Mandated Reporters was not followed.

A mandated reporter is required to report suspected instances of child abuse. This is done to provide an opportunity to the authorities to act quickly to protect a minor child from further harm and more importantly, protect other minor children from harm.

The very people at the top of the chain of command here are the ones charged with ensuring the entire organization does what it should.

They didn't.

Jose

superczar: Wow, you make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims as if you were present when it happened. I'm sure you actually have some inside information to share with everyone that hasn't been released yet, right? Or better yet, maybe it's not inside and you can hook me up with some links?

As to the rest, while it's not abundantly clear what Joe did after making his report to his AD, the part that seems to be going over everyone's head is that Curley lied to the grand jury about it. It's not even a remote stretch of the imagination to think that he also lied to Paterno about it, likely indicating just as he claimed in from of a grand jury that there was nothing to the charges and they were just "horsing around".

We also have no idea what spurned the 2008 investigation in the first place. In short, as of right now all that's known is that not only has Paterno not been charged with covering anything up, he's also been praised by the AG prosecuting the case. So perhaps rather than make fools of yourself falling all over yourself in your Pitt gear to burn Paterno at the stake, how about actually let the facts of the case bear out what, if any, legitimate culpability he has, especially in lieu of the fact that his name was not even mentioned once in the indictment.

Jose:

Paterno was required, by law, to report this to Childline or de minimis, CYS. Simply reporting it to the AD was not sufficient.

That's the law now. What was the law in 2002 when the alleged incident occurred?

-FIRE THEM ALL-


Could not agree more Bob!

Any & all responsible parties found to be involved and/or were knowledgeable of this heinous pattern of abuse, must go down...and go down hard IMO.

Perhaps this sheds a hint of light on how the Penn State administration could be turned away in their attempt to terminate the "legend", a few years ago when his ouster seemed a done deal???

Shame on them, one & all!!!

-PSU alum-

...
@ b of c: the point you are missing is that the claims do not have to be "substantiated" to require that they be reported. Comments by the AG not withstanding, the law is clear. Paterno is a Mandated Reporter. When the GA and his father met with him, Paterno's next call should have been to Childline, not Curley, and not a day later.

Yes, the courts will determine guilt or innocence as far as the acts, but it is very clear that since CYS was not notified via Childline than the Mandated Reporters did not fulfill their obligation under the law.

By the by, I am not a Pitt grad...

Jose

Bob,

You were a big proponent of Pitt hiring Tom Bradley.

Unless he somehow was able to know nothing about what was going on, which is hard to imagine, Bradley has to be included in the "them all" you say should be fired.

Turns out it's a good thing Pitt listen to you.

In fact it might be the case that the vetting process involving Bradley for head coaching jobs at Pitt and elsewhere revealed the ongoing investigation into Sandusky.

This might be a big reason why Pitt and others did not dare hire to hire him wanting to stay clear of any possible connection to the scandal.



If what you say is true, the Pitt administration is also guilty of failure to report Sandusky. -- Bob Smizik

...
B of C, yes, it was the law then and it states that right in the indictment.

Jose

superczar wrote:

"He fired Sandusky by letting Sandusky retire with pride and keep all of his perks, most despicably, being able to be around boys."

This is blatantly inaccurate.

Read the indictment. Sandusky encountered all the victims through his charity organization "Second Mile."

Allowing Sandusky the emeritus status provided him a place to act out his vile deeds. But it in no way, shape or form provided him a place to prey on innocents.

Sandusky did that on his own when he created the foundation in 1977.

There isn't anything about this that smells right. With people lawyering up and closing ranks we may never know the whole truth.

But parsing words and arguing over what the definition of the word "is" is in a case where kids will never be same again doesn't cut it.

I concur with Bob, less one - this taints Joe Paterno's legacy.

Joe is complicit in cultivating an aura of being the face and power of Penn State. As Gene Collier stated in his piece this morning - the grad student reported the incident not to police, but to a higher authority - Joe Paterno.

Joe should have done more - going to his 'boss' [by the way does anyone really beive the AD is his boss other than in title only?] was not enough. While not perhaps not meeting the legal standard to be charged, in my mind, he meets the moral standard.

This is on Joe as much as any of the other so called 'leaders' of the university. Joe must immediately step down or be dismissed. As far as his legacy, this will be for time to tell.

***
******

Agree that Penn State needs to totally clean house. Bad part is from now on hardly anyone will associate Penn State with athletic greatness. Most folks will just think of it as the place where perverts rape young boys in the locker room showers.

Jose:

Actually here is the law as ti stands now:

http://www.pacode.com/secure/d...42.42.html

(a) General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), licensees who, in the course of the employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.

Paterno knew nothing about this kid other than what he was reported to second hand. That's likely why he is in the clear in this from a legal stand point. An argument can be made that he should have done more to follow up, but at this point not only do we not know that he didn't chances are if he did, he was lied to, just like the grand jury was.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes.

That doesnt mean they should be allowed one more minute in their positions.

B I N G O !!!

Bob, I agree with you... but you are missing info.

The incident that the GA witnessed was in 2002 after Sandusky retired.
However, in reading the indictment, there were many incidents and victims that occured in the 1990's during his employment with PSU.
Then in 1999, Sandusky retires at 56... doesn't take another coaching job.. given emeritus status an office and access to facilities.
Who are we kidding here.
Paterno and the administrators were aware of Sandusky's activities in the 1990's... and therefore, all should be fired.. including Paterno. Don't give Paterno the satisfaction to resign or retire... FIRE Paterno.



Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Regardless of time frame, Paterno knew he had a sexual predator on staff (emeritus), using the building. He should not have permitted that. -- Bob Smizik

Jose:

the point you are missing is that the claims do not have to be "substantiated" to require that they be reported.

Paterno is a Mandated Reporter.

No he's not in this case. The problem is that as per the law, Joe had no access to this kid at all. He was told a second hand accusation of which he directed it to what he thought was the proper channel to handle the accusation. Perhaps he should have also directed the Graduate Assistant to the police, but at this point we don't even know that he didn't.

Regarding Pitt and Tom Bradley...

Bob,

It seems by the time Pitt or any other school would have learned anything of the Sandusky scandal by vetting Bradley.., they would have been aware that an official police investigation was already underway.


Then why did they bother interviewing him? -- Bob Smizik

Not only was Paterno Sandusky's superior he also was Curley superior in everything but title. Paterno should have resigned by now.

The Penn State graduate assistant who witnessed the allegation should have gone to the police - not Paterno.

...
B of C: Paterno recruits children all of the time. So does his staff. I would be surprised if his staff is not required to have all appropriate clearances to enter public schools to perform recruiting duties. Further, these children were also allowed on campus in facilitites he is, in part, responsible for supervising.

You can talk around this all you want. When an individual comes before you to report that someone associated with your organization, despite his being retired, was seen having intercourse with a minor child in your facility then it is your legal obligation as an educator (aren't coaches at all levels considered that?) to report it to Childline.

You are trying to draw a dotted line here in the reporting procedure, I do not believe that there is one at all. If it were up to me as AG (and it clearly is not, since I am not the AG) I would have charged Paterno too.

He wasn't charged. He also failed to follow up. He should have made darn sure that the charges were appropriately investigated if for no other reason than to ensure his facility was safe for underage prospective students to visit. He didn't. He should be fired.

Jose

B of C: Paterno recruits children all of the time.

Paterno recruits Division One caliber football players who should be capable of protecting themselves from inappropriate touching from old men.

From what B to the C posted Paterno may have fulfilled his legal obligation to report if, indeed, he had one. But there has been much speculation over the years, a lot of it justified, that Ptaerno has NO superior at Penn State.

Regardless he is powerful enough that he could have followed up to ensure the information got to the proper outside authorities.

What may be more disturbing is that I doubt that Sanducsky, if he did such acts, began them late in life. It would not surprise me if other alleged victims came forth in the coming weeks who suffered attacks during the prime of Sandusky's coaching career.

I have railed on here before about the corruption prevalent in college sports. That has been in the context of the sports themselves pertaining to scholarships, players and the likes.

But this case, as the facts more fully emerge, may be symptomatic of that corruption in that the schools and all involved try to operate in their own little world and want no disruption from outside issues.

I'm afraid this could develop into an instance of protecting the football program from distractions or ill publicity.

Of course that cover has been blown.

I agree. All must go.

Let me put it another way.
In my opinion...
Paterno and the admin KNEW of Sandusky activities in the 1990's (well before the 2002 incident).
They force him to "retire"...
Told Sandusky not to take another job or else..
Gave him emeritus status, an office, access to facilities...

Who are we kidding here... there was a big coverup of Sandusky by Paterno and admin and it started in the 1990's.

As such... and I agree with Bob... they ALL must be FIRED!!!

Sandusky was ONLY 56 when he retired!!!

Before we fire everyone and ruin lives can we at least hear their side of the story? I'm not saying they're innocent but don't forget the Duke lacrosse players. It's why we have a legal system.

Purewater, I am all for innocent until proven guilty, but you really should read the grand jury report.

Jose:

Paterno recruits children all of the time.

Paterno recruits high school students, he was not recruiting this kid who was part of the alleged assault.

I would be surprised if his staff is not required to have all appropriate clearances to enter public schools to perform recruiting duties.

I'm certain that they are. But aside from the fact that's not really pertinent in this case, clearances only mean the people on staff have no history, it does not prevent them from creating one.

Further, these children were also allowed on campus in facilitites he is, in part, responsible for supervising.

No one is arguing that he wasn't. But again, all we know now is that he was told a second hand story and reported it to his AD. We have no idea if he also told the graduate assistant to go to the police too. We also have no idea if his AD lied to him like he did to the Grand Jury.

You can talk around this all you want.

I'm not talking around anything, the law is clear. We again also have no idea what Joe direct the GA to do or what he was told as follow up by the AD.

You are trying to draw a dotted line here in the reporting procedure, I do not believe that there is one at all.

Read the law, it's as clear as day. If Joe was not a witness to the alleged incident or was not told by the alleged victim, he is not a mandatory reporter as per the law.

If it were up to me as AG (and it clearly is not, since I am not the AG) I would have charged Paterno too

The AG is following the law as written. And again, we have no idea what else happened with respect to what Joe did or did not do after he was told of the incident. Right now, all we have is a bunch of speculation being posed as facts. Further, the AG praised Joe for his actions in this case, which leads me to l believe there's a lot more to what Joe did and was told that has not been released to the public yet. Whether or not the case ends up bearing that out, we'll see.

He also failed to follow up. He should have made darn sure that the charges were appropriately investigated if for no other reason than to ensure his facility was safe for underage prospective students to visit

Is there somewhere in the story that's been released to this point, that actually indicates this?

Further, regardless of how much clout Joe has on campus, when your boss(or underling depending on how you want to view the whole PSU structure) tells you that everything has been checked out and nothing came of it, is there a reason that you wouldntt believe them?

Jason: Either calm down your rhetoric or back up your charges with facts. Otherwise they will be deleted.

Yes, this is a blog where people can state their opinion, but in the bounds of good taste and without hurling charges that have no basis in fact. -- Bob Smizik

The Penn State graduate assistant who witnessed the allegation should have gone to the police - not Paterno.

The GA should have gone to gone to the police immediately after. Once Paterno learned from the GA what occurred, Joe should have gone to the police immediately.

Disgusting all around. There should be some immediate resignations and firings forthcoming. Anything less is unacceptable.

Great column Bob about a terrible subject. Reporting a sex crime to "your superiors"? Does this make common sense to anybody? This is THE WORST violation in the history of college athletics, absolutely dwarfing any recruiting violation, selling of memorabilia, or paying for players cars, etc. Penn State can only redeem itself by removing any and everyone directly involved. Their board should be meeting at this moment and emerging thereafter with pink slips.

My God, and after all the years of Paterno's self righteous patting himself on the back about the "the way we do things at Penn State"

Well it turns out that way included putting children at risk to protect to protect the programs reputation.

At a minimum can we all finally agree that Joe Paterno is among the worlds biggest and most despicable hypocrites.

joepa should have got out when he could do so without further tarnishing his image. that is not longer a possibility. too bad.

Bob,

I am a Penn State alum, and I am ashamed to say that this morning. If what is being reported at this time is proven to be true, then there is no question that Curley, Schultz and most likely Spanier should all be gone. There simply is no other solution. The situation with Paterno is much more complicated. I have stated several times on your blog, that he should have stepped aside a long time ago, and that our program has suffered because of it. But I also have tremendous admiration for him and great appreciation for everything he has done for our University. To push him out because of this story would be wrong. There is no question he should have done more, but in reporting it to his superior, he took action far beyond what I believe anyone else in his position would have, based on the fact that it was an "alleged" incident. It is very easy for people now, well after the fact, to say that he should have contacted the police. That to me is overlooking a very important fact, and that is that Sandusky was a man to that point who was well respected in the eyes of many, and who worked with Paterno for many years. I believe that given all of the circumstances, Paterno did the right thing by making University officials aware of this. The fact that they decided to sweep it under the carpet and not follow through with the authorities is the far bigger crime.

It is very predictable that many people will say that this will tarnish the University forever, and that Penn State will never be the same. There is even a small part of me that feels that way now. However, as is the case with most scandals, people have a hard time seeing into the future. The fact is that the University is far bigger and greater than a few individuals. It would take a lot more than the horrific actions of one very sick man and the unconscionable decisions of a few others to tear down 150+ years of history. But it is imperative that swift and decisive action is taken here. If Curley, Schultz and Spanier do not step down, they must be fired in the immediately.

In a weird way, this is actually a good thing long term for PSU.

In the short run, PSU will get completely hammered.

But in the long run, it actually helps PSU.

In the eyes of many PSU fans, Curley has been a poor AD for many years. Many blame him for the basketball program being as weak as it is (although ironically, he just may have stumbled onto the right hire for once in his life this time around).

The football program has been a circus. It's way past time for Paterno to retire. The AD at Florida State did the tough, but right thing in telling Bobby Bowden he had to go.

So even if Paterno is innocent, the AD that replaces Curley at PSU will be more like someone at FSU and he'll have the guts to tell Paterno it's his time to go and make the tough but right decision to move the program forward.

It's a shame that it took something like this for PSU to finally get rid of Curley, but in the long run this will help PSU very much.

But in the short run, they will get clobbered from every angle for this.

Thank you JosePagan for posting the applicable law in Indiana County. Most jurisidictions have similar or more stringent laws. The point of requiring reporting of child abuse is to protect the child - to get him or her out of the abusive situation immediately. To those who say "innocent until proven guilty" there is not the same burden of proof as other crimes because the child must be protected from the immediate danger. The only question that matters was did anyone report what they saw to the police or child protection services. Telling your boss or anyone other than the police or child protection doesn't cut it in the eyes of the law.
How much more did that child who was seen being abuse in the locker room have to suffer because no one reported it immediately?

Ottawa Dave

Bob
You say Joe should go when you write:
“By allowing Sandusky an honorable retirement and emeritus status, Paterno was wrong.”
“By allowing him use of the football facilities where he could lure young boys”.
Joe is the football coach. Does a football coach, even one as powerful as Joe, really have the power to allow ”an honorable retirement and emeritus status”? Is it in the job description of a football coach to schedule the use of the university’s facilities?
The accounts I have read show that Joe reported a story he received second hand. Joe had no firsthand knowledge nor had he any physical proof. It would have been premature to tarnish Sandusky’s retirement. Based on the facts presently reported, Joe did what he should have done. He reported a second hand story to his boss. On the surface it appears only as an allegation worthy of further investigation.
We can only surmise how much Joe, and the others, really knew. Knowingly protecting a child predator is 100% wrong. If ANYONE intentionally covered up or withheld information of such a heinous crime, they should also face charges.
Presently, it appears Sandusky is guilty of numerous, despicable crimes. Curley and Schultz played a role in covering it up. I’m not ready to paint Joe Paterno with the same broad brush.



If you don't think Paterno could not have had Sandusky removed from the football offices, you don't know a thing about Penn State football. -- Bob Smizik

stillers11... I agree. The accusations are horrific and sad. I can't explain the level of embarrassment I as an alum for the leaders of the university and their actions. However, you are correct in saying that this will not tarnish the school forever. The first step is to clean house. Then, Penn State will hire a big time coach(Urban Meyer type) and things will move forward. The stadium will still be filled on Saturdays, the school will still draw big time recruits, and order will be restored. Spanier, Curley, and Shultz must be fired... Joe should be quietly forced into retirement.

jason97782:

Once he saw that those idiots were "sweeping it under the rug" shouldnt he have THEN alerted the authorities?!?!?!?

So how do we know that Paterno knew that the administration was just sweeping it under the rug again? And what would have led him to believe that?

*t does make all of the controversy over trading a few jerseys for tattoos seem pale in comparison.

I will repeat a question I asked on the previous thread...

According to Dan Wetzel's Yahoo article, reading from the indictment, the grad student told Paterno what happened on a Saturday. Paterno did not tell Curley until Sunday.

Why did he wait a full day?

Was he considering the idea of NOT telling anyone?

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

Well said Bob. I hope that your blog isn't the only one to take this position. Penn State and Joe Paterno need to do the right thing. The entire slate needs to be wiped clean. Thanks for saying it, I have a hard time believing that we will get the same from others. The health of their Football program should be minor compared to this atrocity, although I cannot imagine a recruit picking Penn State over another school.

I think that Paterno did the correct thing in reporting what he HEARD to his bosses and in NOT going to the police. At the time Paterno had no way of knowing if there was any truth to the allegations or not. It was not his job to carry out an investigation and the best thing for him to do was what he did. Reporting allegations to the police casts a wide net which can bring down the innocent as well as the guilty.

I'm confused as to how Paterno, who had no direct knowledge of any events is being held up to ridicule. The adult graduate student who witnessed the crime is the person who had a responsibility to tell the police and is the guy that should be being excoriated here.



He had second-hand knowledge. That was enough. -- Bob Smizik

Why is it that horsing around naked in the showers with no others around with a young boy seem not that bad to some.
Talk about circling the wagons? I personally think in and of itself is a crime.

GenoSid:

Why did he wait a full day?

Not only do we not now when Joe was told on that Saturday, and I know this is probably hard to fathom, but maybe he wasn't able to reach Curley until Sunday?

"The situation with Paterno is much more complicated. I have stated several times on your blog, that he should have stepped aside a long time ago, and that our program has suffered because of it. But I also have tremendous admiration for him and great appreciation for everything he has done for our University. To push him out because of this story would be wrong. There is no question he should have done more, but in reporting it to his superior, he took action far beyond what I believe anyone else in his position would have, based on the fact that it was an "alleged" incident. It is very easy for people now, well after the fact, to say that he should have contacted the police. That to me is overlooking a very important fact, and that is that Sandusky was a man to that point who was well respected in the eyes of many, and who worked with Paterno for many years."

Too many blue and white colored glasses being worn...

Oh, he's a well respected man, so you know...why bother going to the police just because an eyewitness saw him engaged in one of the worst crimes imaginable...wow.

Allegiance to the legend/myth of Penn State and JoePA the greatest man who ever lived INSTEAD of basic human decency is why boys were allowed to be abused for more than a decade.

Maybe it's time to stop that?

Based on what we know now, there are absolutely no grounds to fire Paterno. There are grounds to fire Curley and Schultz because of the perjury.

So far you are hearing one side of the story. Unless I'v missed something, Paterno knew of a single incident reported by a grad assitant.

From what we know, Paterno acted appropriately by reporting it to the correct University officials.

That's all we know. Further information may come out that changes everything, one way or another.

Was Sandusky even in the locker room that night or did this grad assistant have an axe to grind or was this grad assistant covering up for not getting something done. Who knows? They don't even know who the boy was, if there was a boy there at all.

For that one incident, Joe did everything he should have. Based on what we know now.

Bob, couldnt agree more, they all need to be fired. I think Joe should get a proper retirement, but told in no uncertain terms that he is done.

As an alum it hurts me to think this was allowed to happen on our great campus, but unlike some others on this site, I really dont think it will impact recruiting. That is unless the University makes another poor decision and drags its feet. I would go so far as to can all execs now and anyone on the football team that knew ANYTHING about this.

one word "despicable"

Jason... This is a very emotional topic. But you are working yourself into a fervor without knowing all the facts. I agree it's horrible. I agree it's disgusting. But you are making accusations that you simply do not have facts to back up. Let it all play out. If Joe did something wrong, he will not get away with it. A lot of people are going to get fired, and a few will go to jail. Let's see the decisions that are handed down before making any wild claims. Take a deep breath....

I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and growing up there I rooted for both Pitt and PSU (yeah, I know!)I'm a "Michigan Man" now and have been since I was a young man so the PSU "love" went out the window when PSU Joined the Big 10. (12?!) As a survivor of this heinous crime, I can't stand this happening to anyone, let alone an defenseless, underprivileged child! Bob, you are "spot on" with your recommendations and I would only hope and pray the the University will follow up on these accusations and expel these miscreants from the program, JoePa included!

jason97782:

..because its almost 9 years later and nothing came out until now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ignoring the fact that the police investigation actually started in 2008, you didn't answer my question. Let me ask it again, maybe in bold this time:

So how do we know that Paterno knew that the administration was just sweeping it under the rug again?

And no, I don't want you to tell me that were sweeping it under the rug, that part is obvious, I want to know how Paterno was supposed to know prior to the investigation.

Purewater, I am all for innocent until proven guilty, but you really should read the grand jury report

If you don't want to be utterly and completely repulsed, do not read the report. It's highly disturbing.

I don't care who called or who didn't call the police. Everyone who new of the allegations about Sandusky is responsible and needs to be dismissed!! What perturbs me is that they know of these reports & STILL ALLOW ACCESS TO THE FACILITIES!! that's inexcusable!! Anything that gas been investigated for 3 years "has teeth"!! They knew this & they chose loyalty over a child/children's being stripped of their innocence! JoePa was too stubborn to leave before, now he will be forced. Just sad!!

Inasmuch as I'm not a PSU fan, I've admired the way in which the program was successful, yet did not have the problems other large winning programs have not been able to avoid.

What a shame for all of us, regardless of who one roots for.

Simple question...

That grad student comes to you and tells you what he told Joe Paterno.

What do you do?

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

What does it matter what the law was then compared to now, JoePa did nothing, in my eyes he is only half the man I thought he was.
He should be fired and banished from the school forever, the others should at the least be fired immediately.
This is more lenient justice than what the young boys involved got.

Another thing, there should not be a single PSU alum on here defending Paterno. He was given a first hand report of the incident and should have made sure Sandusky was reported DIRECTlY to the autorities.

Paterno has more power on that campus than Curley and has used it on a number of occasions. Like when Curley tried to have him retire and Joe slammed the door in his face. That doesnt happen anywhere else.

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

First, it wouldn't matter if JoePa retired 10 years ago, this would still tarnish his legacy - it's been you going on for decades apparently and it's probable that suspicions were there among Paterno, his staff and the athletic department/higher university administration (an investigation and police report were opened in 1998, I believe)

Second, it is probably the case that Paterno did nothing illegal. Doesn't matter. He may have been taking what he thought were correct actions - a close co-worker was accused of behavior that Joe probably didn't believe or understand and he may have thought it best to just not rush to judgement while also knowing that the suspicion itself disqualified the man from higher positions of responsibility. Again, doesn't matter.
All that matters is that Joe made a terrible decision as to how to deal with this situation and the end result is several young boys were seriously harmed. That means Joe is no longer fit to be making ANY decisions concerning ANY university operations, especially those that involve molding, educating and protecting young men.

It's all very sad but there is no way that anyone survives this unless the entire AG statement and grand jury indictments are absolutely fabricated, which I'm betting is not the case if everything has gotten this far.

GenoSid:

What do you do

I'd notify my boss and direct the witness of the incident to go to the police to make a report.

What would you do?

BFD,JerseyD, and many others,I couldn't agree with you more.Not enough was done with the certain knowledge Joe and the rest of the staff had.

"written by B to the C, November 06, 2011 - 10:39 AM
GenoSid:

Why did he wait a full day?

Not only do we not now when Joe was told on that Saturday, and I know this is probably hard to fathom, but maybe he wasn't able to reach Curley until Sunday?"

Gee, then maybe he should have called the police. The people he should have called anyway.

"It was not his job to carry out an investigation and the best thing for him to do was what he did. Reporting allegations to the police casts a wide net which can bring down the innocent as well as the guilty."

Plus, you know...reporting it to the police makes it much harder to cover it up, sweep it under the rug and continue the illusion that your program is pristine.

"written by jason97782, November 06, 2011 - 10:36 AM
PowerAlley------------Paterno didnt call the authorities. Shouldnt he have done that when he realized that Curley and Schultz were just trying to cover this up?!?!?! i dont understand how everyone can stick up for Paterno in this situation."

Exactly right.

But don't forget Spanier.

And realistically, if every single assistant coach didn't know...then that means that they didn't interview them, which is another strike against them.

StillerfaninDenver:

He was given a first hand report of the incident

No, he was given a second hand report of the alleged incident. A first hand report would have been from the victim or Sandusky.

Paterno has more power on that campus than Curley and has used it on a number of occasions

Completely irrelevent.

I have to agree, Bob. I don't see any way that Penn State can get around this situation, short of a top to bottom investigation, followed by a thorough housecleaning.

Pennsylvania has a statute requiring the reporting of suspected child abuse. It is known as the "Child Protection Services Law" and can be found in it's entirety in the PA Codes 23 Pa. C. S. Sec 2311. Under state law, a person who suspects child abuse has a LEGAL OBLIGATION to report their suspicions to the Department of Public Welfare of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It is the law. It is NOT an option.

The failure of Penn State personnel who were aware of these suspicions and did not report to the authorities is grounds for prosecution. This includes ALL personnel from university president Spanier to the initial witness, now being identified as Mike McQueary. The acts of Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz in misleading the Grand Jury investigation is so egregious that it defies any defense that might be offered.

This crime, if true (and it looks) bad is a heinous crime. The crime if true was committed by Jerry Sandusky. He is the ultimate bad guy here.

Let me remind people of a few things in our usual rush to judgment without having all of the facts...

1) Joe Paterno did not commit the alleged crimes...Jerry Sandusky did. If these allegations are true, Sandusky has an awful dark side. I doubt he shared this part of his personality with Joe over coffee.

2) All of the alleged incidents occurred AWAY FROM THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM, except for one.

3) The one incident that occurred near the program, PATERNO DID NOT WITNESS. He was given an ALLEGATION by a third party that he did not witness. And he reported this allegation to his superiors, who promised to investigate it then burried it. I'm not sure how a third party is more responsible for this than the actual witness of the crime.

4) I doubt very many people if presented with an ALLEGATION of a crime they DID NOT WITNESS against a trusted friend at work would run to the police based on that. I know what I would do, report it to my superiors and demand they investigate it. That's what Joe did.

Paterno is not squeeky clean on this but this is classic lynch mob mentality, American scandal style. Forget the man who committed the crime and go after the famous coach instead. And do it all before all the facts are in (i.e. Duke Lacrosse, Big Ben).

If its proven that Joe actively swept this under the rug or knew more than we think I will change my opinion. If the extent of Joe's crime is reporting an ALLEGATION that he DID NOT PERSONALLY WITNESS to his superiors and THEY covered it up, then frankly he's being made a scapegoat here.

The bigger they are...the more we love to tear them down.

jason97782:

common sense should tell Paterno that they were sweeping it under the rug.

You keep dodging the question. Why would Paterno have any reason to believe it was being swept under the rug? In short, did he receive any reports that nothing was done? And do we know that the AD didn't lie to him just like he did to the Grand Jury.

Otherwise something would have risen from this incident in 8 YEARS!!!!

You;re right, I mean no one has ever misinterpreted anything or been falsely accused of anything ever.

Maybe I should start using multiple exclamation points too, perhaps that makes my argument more compelling!!!!111one1!111

You Paterno apologists make me want to puke.

He will not be implicated in this despicable cover up from a legal standpoint because of his god like status, but his days of happiness under the blue & white cloak are over.

If this stuff turns out to be true, even one shred of it, he is just as guilty as the other administrators. For the last time, this has nothing to do with Pitt v PSU.

Those of you who continue to dwell on how this will effect the almighty PSU football program should be ashamed of yourselves. Lives have been shattered and stepped on for years. Kids were hiding in closets to keep from Sandusky. They gave him an office.

You want to hide behind talk of procedure? Chain of command?
I'm done with this discussion because I'm too p****d.

"written by B to the C, November 06, 2011 - 10:48 AM
GenoSid:

What do you do

I'd notify my boss and direct the witness of the incident to go to the police to make a report.

What would you do?"

Given that the student clearly didn't feel comfortable going directly to the police...most likely because of the relative power of Sandusky in Centre County...the student clearly (and presciently) was concerned that this incident could be swept under the rug...

I would have walked the young man to the campus police.

But then...I would have cared more about the potential victims than the preserving the image of myself and my program.

After READING the indictment I have come to the conclusion that this was all about power.
Employees afraid of reporting anything to the police or juvenile authorities.

People not wanting to lose their jobs, being truly afraid.
Sandusky is a vile and despicable human being but obviously had a great deal of power at PSU.

Is the football program there so powerful that even a university president failed to do his due diligence?
The police that were involved did nothing?
These activities went on this long? How is that possible?
Heads should roll, and today would not be too soon.
There are no excuses,reasons or entitlement.
This is a damn disgrace.
These poor boys are due a very large settlement as well.
They are stained for life.
Did his wife know and condoned this as well?
The most vile report I have ever read.
I need to take a shower, Oh God I just can't

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

Jose, re, "And who speaks for the children here who were raped and sodomized?"

I would surely expect the prosecutors to do so, followed by a bevy of lawyers filing lawsuits against all the involved parties.

Max, I too wonder who the grad assistant is, and I'm even more curious why his identity is being hidden. He's an adult and he's not a victim. As the actual witness to the alleged acts his failure to alert the appropriate authorities is probably more questionable than JoPa's. He will certainly be outed eventually, because he will surely be one of those named in the coming lawsuits.

jason... you are emotionally over the top and are throwing around some powerful claims that cannot be backed up. The situation is despicable... But Paterno was already cleared legally. You can question the morality of his decision, but you can't headhunt a guy and put him in jail for this. I am sure the AG knows a lot more about what happened than you, I, and maybe even Joe. If Joe did something wrong legally, he will not get away with it. But the prosecution has him signed on as a witness. You cannot throw blind allegations around because you are emotionally caught up in the horrible acts that occurred. And I am by no means defending Joe. I think he should have come forward when all this first occurred. But he has been cleared legally by people who know a lot more about what happened than you do.

Great line in Mike Wise's "Washington Post" column today:

"In Warped Sports World, the don’t-ask, don’t-tell, sweep-it-clean behavior is rationalized as loyalty, having your coach’s or teammate’s back, moving on from the problem. It’s seen as a noble quality, putting the team’s needs — the university’s needs — before your own."

No, this is not the mindset in every high school or university athletic department, but I bet it does sum up a majority of them.

And please, do not let Paterno skate around this by using the "reported it to superiors" excuse. This wasn't sexual harassment. It was a crime, one of the worst crimes there is. He's complicit in the efforts to keep this quiet. It's disgusting, and his reputation should take a large, lasting hit.

I do disagree with just one thing you said, Bob. Despite this scandal and whatever fallout ensues, many parents won't hesitate to send their kids to PSU, because there will always be those parents whose obsession with their child's football "career" supercedes logic, prudence and good judgment.

out-n-itfield:

He will not be implicated in this despicable cover up from a legal standpoint because of his god like status, but his days of happiness under the blue & white cloak are over

Yes, because as we know based on the indictment, kid touchers get a free pass depending on who they are. Oh wait.

Those of you who continue to dwell on how this will effect the almighty PSU football program should be ashamed of yourselves

Hey a strawman. Neat.

You want to hide behind talk of procedure? Chain of command?

Indeed, why in the world would anyone actually let the facts of the case or the state's law get in the way of a good witch burning?

Inorite?

I'm a Pitt fan and alum, but there is no joy in this for Penn State's rivals. Penn State will, of course, recover and it will be better in the long run. The guilty will pay a price and the university community will pull together and move on.

Other universities have recovered from much worse. Look no further than Virginia Tech. Students still apply and attend, alumni donate and return every year. Tragedy, if handled in the right way--honestly--can focus an institution and improve it in myriad way. Please understand I am not comparing in scope or scale the murder of dozens to sexual assualt charges and their cover-up. But both are traumas to the heart of a university and both require a looking inward.

Penn State--the university and the football program that is its front porch--will be undone by this scandal. Horrible mistakes were made and the legally guilty along with those who did not do enough will swept aside and a new era will begin.

And, to Daddio--I think point-shaving scandals and the SMU scandal were worse college sports scandals.

Sure makes getting a few tattoos in Columbus look rather tame by comparison. Yea,OSU "finally" forced Tressel out because he "knew" and concealed it and they will have to suffer whatever fate those NCAA God's bestow them.

In persepective, Penn State should be getting the Death Penalty for allowing this crew to be anywhere near "student" athletes.

Don't know how PSU possibly recovers from this "cover"-up! I'm of the belief that not only Tressel should have been shown the door but also UPresident Gee and the AD Gene Smith. How this doesn't result in the ENTIRE PSU hierarchy being fired if not jailed is beyond me.

written by out-n-ltfield29, November 06, 2011 - 10:54 AM

You Paterno apologists make me want to puke.

---

As do people who rush to judgment or rush to implicate somebody who may have done everything they were supposed to do...without all the facts.

Remember all the people who wanted to the Duke Lacross team in jail for life? Remember the rush of falling on their sword apologies later?

Remember all the people who wanted Big Ben thrown in jail without all the facts?

Based on the facts presented, you want to hang Joe Paterno because he reported an alleged crime that he neither perpetrated nor witnessed to his superiors and they burried it???

It would be different if Joe witnessed the crime. He did not.

What if the allegation was false? What if the grad student had an axe to grind? Back in 2002 there was no reason for Joe to believe otherwise. Should he have run to the police and have them arrest his friend based on an ALLEGATION that he did not witness?

He turned the matter over to his superiors at the university who promised to investigate it and then apparently burried it.

Joe is not squeeky clean in this but the usual rush to judgment is bothersome.

*i'm sorry--should say they will "NOT" be undone by this. indeed, they will not.

GenoSid:

Given that the student clearly didn't feel comfortable going directly to the police.

He didn't? How do we know this again?

.the student clearly (and presciently) was concerned that this incident could be swept under the rug

And yet, that's exactly what happened and yet despite being a first hand witness to it, didn't follow up either, despite being a first hand witness to it.

They all knew. A total house cleaning is in order here.I guess I'd allow JoPa the opportunity to resign first. But he needs to go as well.

jason97782:

so you're saying that what Sandusky did is ok then? you're just as bad as him then

I'm trying not to be insulting here, but perhaps you need to take a lesson on learning how to read.

Or better yet, not posting complete & transparent strawman arguments.

I've not yet once even implied what Sandusky has allegedly done is anything short of absolutely disgusting and tragic, if true.

I'm a firm believer that convicted kid touchers should be subject to castration & the death penalty, but that's another subject altogether.

written by jason97782, November 06, 2011 - 10:58 AM

Ahab-
PATERNO DID NOT WITNESS. He was given an ALLEGATION by a third party that he did not witness. And he reported this allegation to his superiors, who promised to investigate it then burried it. I'm not sure how a third party is more responsible for this than the actual witness of the crime.

well then when Paterno realized they were "burying it" shouldn't he have then gone to the authorities??

---

As another poster said...how does Joe even know that was the case? Maybe Curely and Spanier said...we've got this Joe, its not your issue.

I understand that JoePa is very possible at PSU. Understand though he's still the football coach, not the University president. And maybe he wanted nothing to do with this considering it involved his friend of 40 years.

I'm sorry but if I were in his shoes, I would not want to be the one dropping the legal hammer on my friend...especially if I DID NOT WITNESS THE CRIME. Would you bury a friend of four decades on heresay? Or would you turn it over to somebody else (say your superiors at work) to investigate?

For the record...If Joe personally witnessed this crime and did nothing, I would consider him almost as guilty as Sandusky.

And if I find out that he was ACTIVELY INVOLVED in a cover up, he should be fired and be charged with Curely and the other guy.

Based on the facts we have now...this is a rush to judgment and typical American fan and media scandal behavior. Instead of talking about how awful Sandusky is (if this is true) we are going after a football coach who was six degrees of separation from this incident...AND REPORTED IT (even though he did not see it).

out-n-ltfield29 : great post! I was a bit afraid to put it like that and then possibly have it deleted.

"Paterno is not squeeky clean on this but this is classic lynch mob mentality, American scandal style. Forget the man who committed the crime and go after the famous coach instead. And do it all before all the facts are in (i.e. Duke Lacrosse, Big Ben)."

There is nothing to debate with Sandusky. Refraining from calling him guilty is merely out of respect to the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Short of finding out this grad student orchestrated the biggest frame job in history...the evidence is beyond damning.

There are 8 seperate victims who were unaware of one another. Ben's 2nd accuser was fully aware of the first.

There is little to debate with Curley and Schultz. Honestly, their only defense is to claim that JoePA didn't tell them the truth or undersold it.

Paterno, so far, has escaped culpability in this travesty. You have a point, in so far as Spanier is taking less flak than Paterno. Both are equally worthy.

The question I would have for those defending Paterno...

Is, assuming you have read the evidence, are you honestly defending Paterno's actions here because you believe them justified and sufficient?

Or because he's Joe Paterno?

At best, Paterno can look himself in the mirror and say, "I was told about the molestation of boys...and I did the LEAST I possibly could about it."

(At worst, he participated in a criminal cover up that enabled future abuse of future victims.)

And you are saying that that is good enough?

"Forget the man who committed the crime and go after the famous coach instead."

Also, just because Sandusky's crime is more horrific, doesn't mean that the others did not also commit crimes.

I seem to remember Nixon going down even though it was Liddy with the crowbar in hand.

...

MarkKaboly_Trib Mark Kaboly
Yesterday, the Penn State Creamery pulled an ice cream flavor named after Sandusky.

GenoSid:

Is, assuming you have read the evidence, are you honestly defending Paterno's actions here because you believe them justified and sufficient

You keep making this assumption that all he did was report it to the AD and left it at that.

How do you know this again?

Particularly in light of the fact that the AG praised him for his actions all while condemning his superiors?

What needs to come out, I'm sure it will, is what was the relationship of Paterno and Sandusky after the alleged incident in 2002.

You're done, Jason. -- Bob Smizik

The Graduate Assistant was identified in the Harrisburg Patriot-News as current assistant Mike McQueary. http://www.pennlive.com/midsta..._sand.html

This is most disturbing to me in part because I remember that Jerry Sandusky was once a popular speaker at area high school football banquets. He came off as genuine and all-American- the kind of image one would want young people to emulate. Talk about crushing-- this is one of the worst!

I have met McQueary... even played golf with him. He seemed like a stand up guy. But if he thought it might threaten his opportunity to not get on the coaching staff, I bet he didn't push the issue once he brought it to Joe's attention.

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

"written by B to the C, November 06, 2011 - 11:02 AM
GenoSid:

Given that the student clearly didn't feel comfortable going directly to the police.

He didn't? How do we know this again? "

Because he didn't go to the police. He went to Paterno. I guess he believe the notion that Paterno was a good human being and thought he could trust him to do the right thing.

"the student clearly (and presciently) was concerned that this incident could be swept under the rug

And yet, that's exactly what happened and yet despite being a first hand witness to it, didn't follow up either, despite being a first hand witness to it."

I see...so because the grad student did not do the right thing...it doesn't matter that Paterno or Spanier, etc ALSO did NOT do the right thing.

That is your logic?

I'm willing to say all 3 did the wrong thing.

Are you willing to say JoePA and Spanier were just as wrong for doing what you castigate the grad student for?

Oh I'll be waiting for the so called facts to unfold.

I don't want to hang Paterno. All I'm saying is that you can talk until your blue and white in the face about letting the system work and what is fact or fiction. The bottom line is that anybody with one shred of sense knows that if Joe had any inkling of what Sandusky was up to, and it is a big old 1,000 lb gorilla of a fact that he did, then he should have done more to ensure this wouldn't happen again.

You say it was just an allegation? It would have been enough for most people to get rid of him altogether from the facility and keep him away from your functions. He was an enabler

...
Wow. So having someone who witnessed an adult having anal sex with a 10 year old tell me what he saw is actual his giving "secondhand" information? B of C, I respect your opinion, but really, you are stretching it now.

If I am a school principle and an individual tells me he saw Mr X kissing student Y, I am to treat that as "secondhand?" So I should just tell my boss, but not call Childline?

And to the poster who said PSU does not recruit children, they do. I don't give a rat's patoot if a kid is a D-1 prospect or not. If they are under 18 they are a child in the eyes of the law. Just because they may be able to physically defend themselves does not mean that they can't be taken advantage or abused. Nor does it mean they cannot be protected or should not be.

I haven't seen so many excuses or fine legal arguements for what the people in charge did/didn't know since Watergate.

Jose

Jason, I said nothing of the sort. There were inquiries as to the identity of the GA who was the initial witness. As I said, he has been identified in the Harrisburg paper. According to the Grand Jury presentment, after witnessing the act, he was very upset and called his father, who advised him to leave the building. The next day, a Sunday, he and his father went to Joe Paterno's home and told him what Mike had seen.

He should have called the police, but given the situation he acted responsibly.

Reading the responses you see alot of the problem. The problem when a football program becomes bigger than the University. As a Pitt fan, you can trash football all you want, but let's face it, it does not run the school, and especially the region it is located in. Penn State fans are amongst the most passionate in the sport (I jealously admit) but with that blind loyalty also comes denial.

Look, we all work, and have worked at places and especially if you work at a place for a decent length of time, you hear "rumors" regarding coworkers. Some true, some not, some never proven true or untrue. But in college football program, it is even more tight knit community than most standard work places. If you don't know, I suggest reading the AG's Grand Jury report. It is disgusting, it is not fun, it is ugly, it is graphic and hard to digest and finish. But what is obvious is Sandusky's behavior was serial, it was a voracious "rapist", with some overt acts that adults witnessed. People knew. It was impossible not to know. This includes Paterno. I suspect the Grad Assistant that witnessed one of the incidents is Mike McQueary who is currently on staff. The fact that Sandusky still had access to kids and PSU facilities is reprehensible by all, including St. Joe Paterno. This is not a witch hunt, this is real. Real bad. And PSU fans, you don't deserve to have a good program and recover from this. Success With Honor, as you all so arrogantly have flaunted.

Penn State is another example of what happens when football becomes bigger than the institution.

GenoSid:

Because he didn't go to the police. He went to Paterno. I guess he believe the notion that Paterno was a good human being and thought he could trust him to do the right thing.

This does not substantiate your claim that he didn't feel conformable going to the police. Also, the GA, now apparently indicated as McQueary went to his old coach for advice how to handle a situation he witnessed by one of his old coaches isn't a surprise or an indication he wanted to get Joe's advice on how to handle it all.

I see...so because the grad student did not do the right thing...it doesn't matter that Paterno or Spanier, etc ALSO did NOT do the right thing

What does Spanier did, have to do with Joe Paterno doing the right thing?

And again, we have no idea what Joe did beyond referring the McQuery to the AD. Unless of course you know he told him not to go the police, of which would be great to see some evidence for it.

First of all, it saddens me that there are people who want to torch Paterno simply because they are Pitt fans and hate PSU footbal. This is not a football issue, its a human issue. Those taking that stance are every bit as blind as PSU fans who love Paterno and defend him only on that.

I simply want to remind everyone that we don't have all of the facts here and that we are connecting a lot of dots to convict a man who did not witness or commit the crime and reported it to others.

Its sort of like immediately convicting Big Ben based on the four different stories that were told by two drunk college girls...before later find out they told four different stories. It was just the big bad QB and the poor innocent sorority girl. When the facts came out...it was not so clean cut.

As an American, I want to say Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty. As a human being with a brain, I'm disgusted by what I've read and by what appears to be prety damning charges. If he's guilty, lock him up and throw away the key.

I'm disgusted if there was a cover up by university officials as well. Fire them and jail them if need be.

I'm not willing to convict Paterno based on the facts we have. All I know is that he reported a third party allegation to his superiors; as he was supposed to do.

BestManagement... My degree from the institution earned me a great career... Not the football program. The football program is a money making machine and is well known throughout the country. But I will stick with the fact that a Penn State was recently labeled the most value diploma to career recruiters... That is why I attended the school. And believe it or not, I hated Paterno and Penn State football when I signed on the dotted line. I was a Pitt fan.

The bottom line is that nobody did enough to report this. It looks like they informed their superiors and walked away. They should have went straight to the police and screamed it from the top of Mt. Nittany. There will be significant fallout from this.

Joe Paterno knew about this for years and only told his AD? And when the AD didn't act and Sandusky wasn't arrested he still remained silent and did nothing?

The inevitable statement will come out that Penn State does not condone child sex abuse. But with the AD, assistant to the AD, the head football coach, the defensive coordinator, and the university president all knowing and staying quiet for years, PENN STATE CONDONED CHILD SEX ABUSE FOR YEARS.

This whole episode makes me sick and Bob is right, they should all be fired and JoePa's reputation is forever ruined.

@JosePagan

You are consistently one of the best posters on this board. So I'd like your thoughts on this...since you are a principle.

Let's say that a young teacher in your school witnesses sexual abuse of a student. He reports it to an older, more experienced teach who he is friendly with. The older teach gets the allegation but did not witness the crime.

That teacher immediatley reports it to you...the principle.

In that scenario you are the senior person in charge. The younger teacher witnessed the crime. The older teacher was given a hearsay allegation which he still reported to you, his boss.

How do you move forward with this?

I'm guessing you as the principle investigate it, with the younger teach who witnessed the alleged crime. As for the older teacher who did not see it, you thank him for reporting it and tell him you and the younger teach will move forward with it.

That's my guess but please tell me if I'm wrong.

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

First off....I am not a PSU grad....nor a Pitt grad (not that THAT should matter on a topic like this)....so I have no loyalty axe to grind....hopefuly I can lend a little common horse sense to this discussion....

B and C....to answer your question about how would Joe know??? First off...consider the news he was allegedly given....that a grad assistant told Joe that HE saw Mr. Sandusky have a sex act with a TEN year old boy in the shower room of THEIR facility. This charge is not the same as Mr. Sandusky may have given a box of chocolates to a highly recruited player's mom. The gravity of the chage MANDATES that Joe and any other responsble adult told that news ENSURE that the police are notified and are allowed to investigate. The fact that 10 days or so later Joe's boss announced that Mr Sandusky was no longer allowed to bring kids into the locker room but would otherwise have all emeritus privileges sustained....would at least alert ME to ask if the police had been notified???? Don't ya think????

Again...legally....everyone at PSU who may be subject to legal penalties for their role in this awful situation....are entitled to a full investigation and their guilt or innocence determined in a court of law. But if the grad student reported to Mr. Paterno what is being resported that he reported....and if Mr. Paterno reported to his boss....who in turn reported to the head of the PSU security and in turn the PSU President was informed....and NOTHING was turned over to the police or proper authorities for investigation.....Bob is right.....EVERYONE at PSU involved...including Mr. Paterno should be shown the door immediately....wuith whatever happens later in court having no bearing on their firing. The gravity of the charges mandates that the police be involved IMMEDIATELY....and failure to have taken that action is dismissable behavior.

Jose:

So having someone who witnessed an adult having anal sex with a 10 year old tell me what he saw is actual his giving "secondhand" information?

Yes it is second hand information. Again you can infer that Paterno should have done more, perhaps he could have, but that is the definition of second hand information.

But again, other than knowing that Paterno referred apparently McQueary to his AD, we have no idea what he did or did not do. Which again it needs to be repeated the PA Attorney General praised Paterno fro his actions, leading me to believe that there's more to this story than what has been released to the public right now.

I'm not sure why there's a rush to judgment that Paterno didn't "do enough", without even knowing fully what he did and did not do yet.

Bob

Sad day for college football.

How could Paterno, Curley, Schultz and other officials continue to let Sandusky hang around the University?

Why would they want him around??

I agree, irreputable harm has been done the University.

Some straight forward answers from Paterno should be expected.

This is not a normal story.

"written by JosePagan, November 06, 2011 - 11:26 AM
...
Wow. So having someone who witnessed an adult having anal sex with a 10 year old tell me what he saw is actual his giving "secondhand" information? B of C, I respect your opinion, but really, you are stretching it now."

Let me combine that with something I said earlier...

A first hand witness comes to you and says that they saw a member of your coaching staff, who you (I'm assuming) hired having anal sex with a 10 year old boy...and your reaction is to do the LEAST you can about it?

Buccs72:

The gravity of the chage MANDATES that Joe and any other responsble adult told that news ENSURE that the police are notified and are allowed to investigate.

Again your assuming that Joe did not follow up on it. How in the world do you know this?

would at least alert ME to ask if the police had been notified?

And you know that Joe didn;t ask this how again?

It';s amazing to see so many folks in light of what happened in other high profile cases like Ben last year and the Duke lacrosse case, still automatically assume they know what happened without it being addressed by the prosecutors on the case.


Further, the AD in question LIED TO THE GRAND JURY about it, why in the world would we believe he also didn't lie to Joe about it, too?

"How do you move forward with this?

I'm guessing you as the principle investigate it, with the younger teach who witnessed the alleged crime. As for the older teacher who did not see it, you thank him for reporting it and tell him you and the younger teach will move forward with it.

That's my guess but please tell me if I'm wrong."

Teachers and principles are not rape investigators. Athletic directors and football coaches are not rape investigators.

Their job is to call the police.

GenoSid:

and your reaction is to do the LEAST you can about it?

You keep assuming facts not in evidence. That does not strengthen your case by simply repeating it.

To note, if it comes out Joe simply reported it and left it at that, then yes I'll agree with 100% you he most certainly should have done more and bears a heavy culpability in it all.

But until then, I'll wait until all the facts of the case are laid out, before looking to burn anyone at the stake.

Hi I'm Joe Paterno. Really would like to have your son come to Penn State. We teach honor, integrity, and accountability. You can be sure I will have the best interest of your son in mind. Try that one next recruiting season Joe

written by GenoSid, November 06, 2011 - 11:47 AM


Teachers and principles are not rape investigators. Athletic directors and football coaches are not rape investigators.

Their job is to call the police.

---
@GenoSid....you are correct. And I'm guessing that Jose as the principle would do that. I'm guessing that the younger teacher who witnessed the crime might want to and the principle would say, we will take care of it.

What about the teacher in the middle? The one who reported the allegation he was given without seeing the crime to Jose...his boss. Is he responsible if the principle fails to do his job...or worse yet LIES to a grand jury?

"Why would any parent want to send their child into this setting? In particular, why would any parent of a football player want to send their child to Penn State?"- Bob Smizik

Ah! There it is. That's what I was waiting for.
The snipe jab thrown out of malice for being angry about the success of someone else.

Next, with such a broad and wide brush slap at many people who live in the state of PA, we only need the names of all the disgusting indivduals at State College to be listed (no need for order).

Please list the individuals that make the above quote currently true (as backup to the premis and it's wide sweeping validity). That is, if it truly has merit.

Please go on Mr. Smizik.



I can assure you I am not angry about the success of someone else, particularly Joe Paterno.
I felt the question was most legitimate. -- Bob Smizik

Jason97782, without knowing what you said that got deleted...you have made many good points, you don't need to resort to marginal language, etc.

Given Bob's position on this, I'm sure he had a reason to delete it.

B to the C,

When did JoePA learn of the accusations against his friend? the man he hired?

When did the police learn of them?

I am doing the math on 2 + 2 + 4 that JoePA didn't do everything he could have.

You are holding out hope that 2 + 2 might equal 3 this time.

Bingram, re, "He should have called the police, but given the situation he acted responsibly."

Maybe I have higher expectations that I should, but to me a 28 year old ex quarterback should probably do something a bit more heroic than call his daddy when witnessing the anal rape of a 10 year old. Say, perhaps, intervene on the child's behalf? OK, if that's too much, call the cops instead of his dad? He was 28 freakin' years old, not some frightened child.

Again...what bothers me here is the rush to judgment without all the facts...at least in regards to JoePa.

The exact same thing happened to Big Ben. And my stance then was the same as it is now. Let the facts come out before we smear and implicate. Let Paterno have his say...if he chooses to do so.

I defended Ben on the same premise. I felt the story was sketchy and that many were reaching to pound a celebrity based on the way to easy angle of the big bad football player and the poor innocent sorority girl. When all the facts came out, the story was not so clear cut.

And even with that I stated this to the end...if the came out with clear evidence that Ben committed that crime I would personally drive him to prison. They never did.

My guess is Jerry Sandusky is going to live out his life as a guest of the state of PA. All the better if he's guilty.

As for Joe, BASED ON THE FACTS WE HAVE NOW...he recived an allegation of a crime that he did not witness and reported it to his supervisors. There is no evidence that he participated in a cover up...in fact, he's a witness for the prosecution, which chose not to include him in the cover up.

His boss apparently lied to a grand jury. Are we so sure Joe was invovlved in that?

LET THE FACTS COME OUT. If its proven that Joe activiely participated in a cover up, he's just as gulity as Curley. Until that happens, I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And once again I remind everyone that all but one of these incidents are alleged to have occurred AWAY FROM THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM and totally outside of PSU's control.

"I choose to remember him in that light. But he must go."- Bob Smizik


I'm afraid the first 90% of your tort makes that sentence absolutely impossible. Slam, slam, slam, appreciate- doesn't sell worth squat. It is a common tactic used when a person has an agenda and trys to advance it then step away to give the appearance of innocence.



Slam, slam, slam, you write. Is this your idea of a slam?
``. . .this story also involves one of the best known, most respected and most revered sports figures in the history of this country Joe Paterno -- a true legend.''

I thought I handled Joe with kid gloves. I think you are bit too emotional on this issue. -- Bob Smizik

GenoSid:

When did JoePA learn of the accusations against his friend? the man he hired

Apparently in 2002.

When did the police learn of them?

Evidently in 2008.

I am doing the math on 2 + 2 + 4 that JoePA didn't do everything he could have.

No, you're assuming that based on the fact tht police weren't notified until later, but ignoring the fact that there is a strong possibility that Joe was lied to. I know Joe's all powerful up in State College and all, but I wasn't aware that the police conferred to him about when other people actually notify them of things and also ongoing investigations.

I could be wrong though.

AH,

Let's change your scenario slightly, Teacher A see a student fall down a well on school property. The well is filling with water and the student will drown in an hour.

Teacher A tells Teacher B what she saw and that the student has one hour to live. Teacher A passes out from stress.

Teacher B tells the principle everything that Teacher A saw.

The principle is skeptical because it's second hand info and decides to wait until Teacher A regains consciousness.

Teacher B now has two choices.

1- Abide the principle's decision and risk the child's life while deciding that they had fulfilled the technical legal extent of their obligation.

2- Do whatever it took to save the child.

Yes, the danger was less immediate than drowning. And rape is not death.

But...JoePA, Spanier and Co. chose #1.

And it wasn't one child for one hour. It was who knows how many for almost 10 years.

Jopa-n

Remember saying my post yesterday was in poor taste?
I think Joe Pa used poor judgement...and taste...should step down ASAP

Right now it can not be proven, but Joe Pa controls Penn St football and I find it hard to believe he did not know more about what was going on before the GA told him. This whole sad tale is filthy, and Joe Pa has dirt on his hands and face.

B to the C...

I get the feeling you and I are on the same page on this.

I want all the facts to come out before we hang the accused. Or in this case...somebody 6 degrees peripheral to the accused.

I want people to stop painting with an incredibly broad brush. Most of this occurred AWAY from te program.

I want people to remember that Jerry Sandusky committed the heinous criminal act here. I also want them to remember that two of Paterno's BOSSES...who he reported this to are accused of LYING to a grand jury.

These are the bad guys here.

Even the grad assistant (maybe McQueery) may have felt he did the right thing by reporting it. As I said in the example above, maybe they were all told by PSU we will handle this, you do you jobs and let us do ours.

People are being awfully presumptuos here without all the facts.

And again, if it turns out Joe was actively involved in a cover up, he's as guilty as Curley and the other exec. However many are trying to connect the dots without all the facts.

This post was about cleaning house at PSU, but, of course, it's turned into a conversation about JoPa mostly.

This to me is the most interesting point, and it's one I've seen on the comments a few times: Joe is much more than a coach. Has been for a long, long time. He is seen as educator, father figure. He is an icon, with Bear Bryant, Dean Smith type power on campus.

He has responsibilities beyond x's and o's. And that is before we start talking about scandal. Any coach should have followed up beyond just a report to the AD. But especially him.

All you who seem to be bending over backwards to defend him, as yourselves if it were Pete Carroll or Nick Saban in the exact same situation.

If Joe Paterno had been told about a murder yet didn't go to the police, nobody would question whether he should have gone to the police.

It's no different here.

Ahab35:

I get the feeling you and I are on the same page on this

Indeed we are. Everything you've written is what I believe as well.

Let's find out who knew what, when and what they did prior to making any judgments.

"No, you're assuming that based on the fact tht police weren't notified until later, but ignoring the fact that there is a strong possibility that Joe was lied to. I know Joe's all powerful up in State College and all, but I wasn't aware that the police conferred to him about when other people actually notify them of things and also ongoing investigations.

I could be wrong though."

So, 6 years later, Sandusky is still walking free and running a children's charity and Paterno can't figure it out?

Oh, maybe it just slipped his mind...you know...his friend with the boys and all...

C'mon...

GenoSid your changes to my scenario are too extreme. And I do understand the point you are making.

What I'm saying is that in an institutional environment, the principle (the boss) would be ultimately responsible for handling this. He would probalby make it clear to those below him that he was doing so.

Even more so howevever my point was that the teacher in the middle, who was given a heresay account of an alleged crime that he did not witness would be doing his job by reporting it to his boss. If his boss said, we've got this, he would probably back off and let it be done.

Remember, he did not witness the crime. All he has is a heresay allegation. The principle and the teacher who witnessed the crime are.

If they fail to do their jobs, is the guy who did not witness a crime but reported the allegation to his boss now guilty? I say absolutely not.

GenoSid:

So, 6 years later, Sandusky is still walking free and running a children's charity and Paterno can't figure it out?

You're absolutely right, my bad. I mean, while the police don't confer with Joe on ongoing investigations, one thing that they do do is to let him know when they've cleared someone.

Again, my mistake.

In a prior thread, I suggested that the Penn State board appoint an outside independent person, like a Richard Thornburgh, to lead an investigation, with Spanier continuing, for now at least, to act as president of the university.

Perhaps such an investigation should be conducted. However, I agree with Bob. Graham Spanier needs to go. And, in my opinion the Penn State board ought to appoint an outsider, if only an interim basis, to head the university. Perhaps a retired president from a prestigious university, or recognized leader from the business would. Politics likely is now too partisan to permit a former office holder to fill that role.

Under the circumstances, it won't do to appoint a Penn State administrator as acting president. Penn State’s leadership needs to be, both in appearance and in fact, independent in order to restore credibility.

Here's a question for those of you who have a hand on the pulse of Penn State conversation and rumors. Were Sandusky's proclivities ever hinted at over the years?

"As I said in the example above, maybe they were all told by PSU we will handle this, you do you jobs and let us do ours."

OK, but after time (up to 6 years, let's say) goes by and you see that they did NOT do their jobs...again, two choices...

1- Well, I did what I HAD to do, so I will just forget it and wash my hands of the whole things...

2- For whatever reason, they are NOT doing their jobs, so I have to do everything I can to make sure that these allegations are not true, so I will go above or around them and speak to the police myself.

It's not like Joe had to walk into the police station with Sandusky's severed head and a note that reads "Pedo."

He could have said, "listen, I heard a rumor about my friend..." and let the police do their jobs from there.

He did not.

OR, at best, he waited 5 or 6 years to do so.

I can't speak for Mr. Smizik. But from my standpoint as a PSU alum, he is usually fair when addressing any issue with Penn State and/or Joe Paterno. I think Bob respects Joe... But that doesn't mean that he likes him.

As for the rest of us... Unless you are someone like BayouHoward who consistently remains unbiased and intelligent in everyone of his posts, we all have some sort of bias to some degree. To Penn State alums like myself, we are more apt to give Paterno a pass until things play out. Some PSU supporters have gone too far. And to those who have hated Paterno and consider Happy Valley the underworld, their breakfast tasted a little better this morning knowing that the Blue and White universe is in turmoil. We can all agree that we sympathize with and are horrified by what happened to the young victims in this criminal incident. Separating that, we must all realize and separate from the fact that this is a sports blog and not a 'Court TV'...

BayouHoward:

Graham Spanier needs to go

I'm actually kind of surprised he's been able to avoid prosecution at this point, based on what I've read. If what's being reported is true, it appears he has at least some culpability in the cover up for Sandusky, at minimum.

And with that, I think he knows he's on the chopping block and that's probably led to his outspoken report for his underlings.

I also think even avoiding prosecution, he needs to be gone like yesterday too, like the 2 currently being prosecuted.

"If they fail to do their jobs, is the guy who did not witness a crime but reported the allegation to his boss now guilty? I say absolutely not."

I would have to read the law more closely. According to what Jose posted earlier...possibly.

But I do know this...

They are a lousy human being.

"Well, I tried...not my fault...if any more kids get molested, it's my bosses fault, not mine...I tried."

I would expect better, yes.

GenoSid:

OK, but after time (up to 6 years, let's say) goes by and you see that they did NOT do their jobs...again, two choices

I know I might be going out on a limb here, bur perhaps he did follow up with his boss the AD and was told:

that Sandusky had only been "horsing around

Like he did to the grand jury?

I think Paterno did make a mistake in all this. When he first heard of the allegations from the grad assistant he should have taken him to the police so the GA could report the crime to them. He should then have called his superiors and informed them of this.

The allegation is serious enough that it should have been investigated by the police, not the university.

The AG cleared him of wrong doing and he will testify for the prosecution. This tells me that paterno will announce his retirement before the end of the season and this will be his last year as coach.

Based on reading the grand jury report, I think everyone, at the least, gets fired. Curely and Schultz likely get found guilty if both the GA and Paterno testify that they explicitly told them that sexual acts were involved.

Sandusky goes to jail and likely dies there too, IMO.

Fire every one of them; it's entirely inexcusable.

Like Gene Collier wrote: you knew that the Paterno rein was going to end badly but there were a million other ways for it not to end this badly.

Z

"I can assure you I am not angry about the success of someone else, particularly Joe Paterno.
I felt the question was most legitimate." -- Bob Smizik
_________________________________

As I can assure you that my belief to the contrare was not made over one of your blogs or one question. You have made positive statements at times, but overall been more negative than positive (up til now that was not easy), and yet been downright defensive in comparison to other people and Universites (depending on who, what, when, and where). Once again, that is an agenda.

It can be as simple as writing a few less columns on a particular situation. It can be choosing other columns slanted in one direction in order to create a feeling of overwhelming support.

Just like rating the column above. Take it as whole and the last statement has no teeth.

Dodkong wrote;

Allowing Sandusky the emeritus status provided him a place to act out his vile deeds. But it in no way, shape or form provided him a place to prey on innocents.

Clearly it did...

B to the C,

"Only"?

Are you saying that his reaction to hearing that his assistant coach was "only" "horsing around" with a naked 10 year boy in the shower should have been "oh, thank God, it was nothing???"

Anything but to insist that THAT act, still a crime, should still be reported to the police is willfull negligence.

That Curley or Spanier did not meet the moral responsiblities doesn't mean that Paterno has none.

I got physically ill after reading the article and recounts of the incidents. this is a complete failure on the part of anyone with a brain who witnessed this and those who were told.

I have to admit that I don't think I would have called the authorities if I witnessed these acts simply because the scene would have turned into a murder crime scene with me as the prime suspect.

To kill a monster, sever it's head and the rest of it will die too.

I hope Sandusky rots in hell. Jail would be too kind.

A few observations:

*Paterno reported to his superior. This apparently makes him not punishable legally. He failed, however, to report to the police after his superior did not. This makes him not worthy having his job. He could have saved children of being victimized, and he didn't. Period.

*Attempts to minimize this, and defend the key players in this are reprehensible.

* As a Pitt fan, Paterno's worst crime before this was his role in the dismantling of the PSU vs. Pitt game. Otherwise, it was hard not to admire his coaching feats and the quality of the PSU football program over the years. His contributions to college football have been immense. I don't want to believe that his role is as significant as it is because he is a hero to so many people for good reason. Sadly, I believe he had the power to do much more than he did. It is a true shame.

"Right now it can not be proven, but Joe Pa controls Penn St football and I find it hard to believe he did not know more about what was going on before the GA told him. This whole sad tale is filthy, and Joe Pa has dirt on his hands and face."-Richie

Richie, right there is the very proof I speak in why what you say is utterly amazing. If I have learned anything from the past 2 years, is that making assumptions from where we stand is a blunderous move.

We already went through this with Ben: Assumption, assumption, assumption- Wrong. I'm not saying here nor there now, but I would expect any Steeler fan to be one who tends to tread lightly before making assumptions today. We are supposed to LEARN from our lessons.

My anger is not measurable today and reading many of these posts does not help, but I will allow the legal process to go forward. I will say suspensions with pay should be happening immediately for a whole host of characters.

If there is truth to this story (and after reading the indictment, I find it hard to believe there is none):

I beg of you all, please tell me that there is a man amongst you that would have stood up for a child. If what happened is true, Mike McCreary is a COWARD. A supposed 28 year old man runs to his father first because he see's a 10 year old being sodomized? We've got 18,19,20 year olds around the world who would throw themselves on a grenade without thinking twice. How do you not dial 911 and immediately tackle Sandusky and hold him until police arrive? If that was your child you mean to tell me you would not in a fit of rage beat him to within an inch of his life?

McCreary was a QB at Penn State, and normally being in that position he would have been a leader. He should have been tough because getting crushed by 300 lbs. tends to toughen you up a bit. He was neither tough nor a leader when he basically abandoned that 10 year old. How can you look yourself in the mirror after seeing what he did and continue to work at Penn State. How would you live with yourself if you knew that man was not in jail. I would hope that the human thing to do is put someone else above you and live in a tent for the rest of your life if it means spending every waking moment to bring Sandusky to justice. If a single man is unwilling to do everything he can to speak up for the ones who can't, then there are no men.

I had an instructor at the Academy that would tell us, "Good Enough, is not Good Enough". Mike and JoePA and the rest of you allowed this to happen again. You were not Good Enough!

GenoSid:

you're you saying that his reaction to hearing that his assistant coach was "only" "horsing around" with a naked 10 year boy in the shower should have been "oh, thank God, it was nothing

Wait what?

The point is that it's quite possible that Paterno was lied to by his AD. And that ignores the fact that we actually have no idea what McQueary told Joe happened in the first place.

Which again just keeps highlighting that you keep assuming facts not in evidence.

To reiterate, all we currently know right now is that McQueary talked to Joe about an "incident he witnessed" and Joe informed the AD.

We don't know what McQueary told Joe when he talked to him, we don't know what Joe told McQueary to do when they talked, we don't know what the AD told Joe after meeting with McQueary or what Joe did as a follow up following his referral of McQueary to his AD.

Or is there some information out there now that details all of this?

jason97782:

When he realized that his "superiors" were covering this up

Link?

@GenoSid...

Just so we're clear, I understand and respect your point of view on this.

I just feel a lot of assumptions are being made without facts. I feel a lot of broad brush painting is going on. And in the processes, we are dragging down a great man without facts or evidence to do so.

If its proven that Joe was part of a massive cover up, he should go down for this. Keep this in mind however...he's a witness for the prosecution. Maybe he tried to do more than we know and this is his way of doing so.

Just let the facts come out before we hang a man who devoted 60 years to teaching, coaching, and mentoring kids.

jason97782

Common sense is my link

Enjoy the well deserved deletion.

if you were Paterno, wouldnt you have asked Curley what was going on and if he went to the police

Paterno didn't ask him?

Link?

Or is that also just "common sense"?

Stillers11 wrote;

There is no question he should have done more, but in reporting it to his superior, he took action far beyond what I believe anyone else in his position would have, based on the fact that it was an "alleged" incident.

This wasn't exactly a minor "alleged" incident. We're talking probably the worst act a person can do to someone else. You think just going to your supervisor about this is "far beyond" what other people would have done? Man...I hope you're never a witness to something as disgusting and heinous as this.

Would you consider keeping Sandusky at emeritus status, which allowed him access to the very facility where the "alleged" incident occurred, taking action far beyond...?

superczar:

The Paterno apologies need to stop and stop now.

Funny how people taking a wait and see approach to what happened are labeled as a apologists.

Maybe you need to look up the word apologist, prior to running it out as an ad hominem.

Please, get over your blind allegiance

Me thinks you need to get over your blind hatred in an effort to burn a man at the stake.

You think that name won't stick or ever be used to taunt fans?

Wow, apparently several kids get touched inappropriately and you think people should care about other people trash talking it?

Where in the world are YOUR priorities?

After thinking about this all morning, letting my emotions settle down, and rationally making some judgements,Bob Smizik is correct.

FIRE THEM ALL. Not after the season, but right now.

My hardest problem is trying to determine what is proven fact against what are unproven allegations.

There is enough fact to indict them all. Maybe not on legal grounds, but for not being morally responsible.

Innocent until proven guilty will keep you out of jail. These people are morally bankrupt. That should be enough to have you fired.

@Kevin, you are right....McQueary's actions were not responsible, and as soon as I posted I rethought that statement. If a person sees a grown man in the act of sexually assaulting a 10-year-old child in the shower, I would think that the initial response would actually be to intervene, period, rather than turn and walk away and leave the child to be victimized.

I'm afraid joe Paterno has now fallen into the class of Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill that he fought to protect college from.

First off...Paterno will not survive this whether there was a cover up or not. My guess is he finishes up the season but this will be the final straw.

Second, as I've said above, if Paterno was involved in a cover up, he should be fired and maybe prosecuted.

If he was not then let's once again remember a few facts...

1) Jerry Sandusky is alleged to have committed these crimes.

2) All but one occurred outside of the football program.

3) The one that did was reported to Joe but he did not witness it. He was provided a heresay allegation. He did not witness the crime. That said, he reported it to his superiors and from what I understand, removed Sandusky's access.

4) The AD and another exec apparently lied to a grand jury.

5) Paterno is apparently testifying as a witness for the prosecution.

It is quite presumptuos to assume based on those facts that Joe Paterno was involved in a massive cover up. I would think any of us in his situation would want some benefit of the doubt..at least until more facts come out.

I think a lot of you are missing the point of any allegation of or witnessing of child molestation is to be reported to the police or childen services, and this is mandatory, A LAW in the state of Pa.
There is no excuse for people in these positions not to notify the proper authorities who are the police or cys

B to the C
I'm pretty sure I know what "apologist" means. Please elaborate on how I am using it wrong, Mr. Brain. When you defend someone, you are an apologist. Yes, that Grad Assistant should have been like WTF and called police immediately but for Joe to do nothing is just sad. You defending Joe and everyone else is even sadder.
I hope you don't work with kids. Here is B to the C's police report, "yeah I saw this kid being chased and then grabbed and stuffed into a sac, but I was taking a wait and see approach. Maybe they were just going camping."
Burning Paterno at the stake? Not doing any such thing, maybe we can calm down the hyperbole.

Hey, look I am sitting on my cloud of judgement by using sarcasm to call someone else juvenile.

P.S. methinks is actually one word and don't know if you quite know how to use ad hominem correctly. I don't think I m trying to disprove anything and don't believe I am being negative to disprove it either.
Where are my priorities you ask you? Defending kids and not trying to dismiss a cover up.
But I guess pointing out the obvious with my pedophilia comment means I don't care.

Bob,

I won't go all Jason99782 on you, but I honestly have no idea why my most recent post was deleted. ?

Superczar.... I think you mean "homonym"... Wow.

Krafty33 wrote:

Clearly it did...


Not in the sense that superczar was alluding to. Superczar's statement was that in allowing Sandusky to retire with emeritus status, JoePa/PSU allowed Sandusky continued access to victims.

That is simply not true.

It was through Sandusky's charity that all the victims were first introduced to him. There was no mention at all in regards to meeting his victims through PSU functions.

Now the emeritus status did provide Sandusky, along with his own home, a location that Sandusky felt comfortable in acting out his crimes. Now that is something that can be pinned on JoePa/PSU. But suggesting the head coach and/or the university provided Sandusky continued chances to find more and new victims is completely inaccurate.


In re-reading my first post, I can see how I might not have been clear with my response.

superczar:

When you defend someone, you are an apologist

Taking a wait and see approach until all the facts come out is not a defense. It's arguing that people should wait for all the facts to be laid out before making a determination.

Something that you're obviously not capable of doing.

Not doing any such thing, maybe we can calm down the hyperbole.

In light of the "scenario" you just posted in the two sentences prior to this statement, this is hilarious.

With that said, as I've asked other, would you care to elaborate exactly what McQueary said to Paterno when they met? Alos, enlighten me with what Paterno told McQueary to do after being told?

Then you can enlighten me with what the AD told Joe after the fact, as none of these items have seemingly made it into the papers yet.

don't know if you quite know how to use ad hominem correctly

Calling people apologist is an ad hominem, since you're arguing against them, rather then what they write.

But I guess pointing out the obvious with my pedophilia comment means I don't care

Hey look, now it's a strawman.

With that said, since you thought it important enough to write about, apparently you think trash talking has some sort of importance to this subject, no?

I confess to being a Penn State and Paterno fan. That noted, I join many others in forecasting that many heads will roll as a result of the poor judgement of many who are responsible for both the well-being of the University and its constituents.

It seems that there have been errors of both omission and commission made in this case. Sorting those out should lend both insight to this sordid allegation and redress appropriate to both the perpetrators and their legal and moral responsibilities. It promises enormous pain for many, even millions who've followed the Paterno legacy and embraced Penn State, giving this institution a big place in their hearts. Talk about heart-breaking! And that's what makes this so tragic. Yes, Paterno's diminished legacy will be just a small part of this. The far more significant issues will be the crashing of gridiron Camelot. Just like the movie. Penn State was the one place where it might have been perfect.

And for millions, their perfect love might just resemble the Sodomites and Happy Valley looking a bit like Gommorah.

GenoSid:

I won't go all Jason99782 on you, but I honestly have no idea why my most recent post was deleted?

I wondered that myself, but I suspect Bob may have just deleted your post by mistake in trying to clean up some of the mess posted by others.

But in all of this mess, count on the realization that Penn State will rise from its ash pit. The University is far more, far greater than Spanier, Curley, Schultz, even Paterno. Monday is coming.

Dodkong
they did provide him with more opportunities by not pursuing this crime further.
If you read the report the abuse did not stop at any time, therefore they allowed it to continue.
Just plain disgusting!

Agree STRONGLY with B of C.

It's pretty sad that those of us who don't want to bury somebody without evidence are considered "apologists." I like to think we're part of this whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing that our entire legal system is based on.

We've seen time after time where there was a public rush to judgment without the facts and the actual results were quite different from the initial perspective.

And there is a lot of broad brush painting going on here. All but one of these allegations occurred away from the football program...most after Sandusky retired.

What's amazing is the person who allegedly committed this heinous act is basically now second banana in the story. As our the people who covered it up. The focus is a man who did not commit or witness the crime...based on the facts we have now.

Hi All!

I don't want to open up unwarranted speculation because I have no evidence to support it, only a thought about two different events, but . . .

Does anyone think that it's possible that the mysterious and still unsolved disappearance of Ray Gricar, the Centre County District Attorney, a few years go has any connection to this????

"written by B to the C, November 06, 2011 - 01:31 PM
GenoSid:

I won't go all Jason99782 on you, but I honestly have no idea why my most recent post was deleted?

I wondered that myself, but I suspect Bob may have just deleted your post by mistake in trying to clean up some of the mess posted by others."

I wouldn't care, except most of that post was a reply to AH's comments to me, and honestly, I was hoping to not have to retype them.

Real quick, I guess...AH, I get your positions...

I understand your concern about Joe being "lynched" or smeared just because of his name value.

But understand...the other side is concerned with Joe getting away with something just because of his name value...not with lynching him.

Criminal or not...knowing what he knew...not doing more...his actions were lousy.

tne,

I have wondered that in the past 24 hours, yes.

It still seems like a far fetched accusation, even given the current circumstances.

But then...the current circumstances were absolutely unthinkable 36 hours ago.

Ahab..

Innocent until proven guilty? You are hanging onto this, comparing this with Duke Lacrosse case or Big Ben's he said she said? Have you read the Grand Jury document? Have you?

JoePa didn't know? You think this? Really? I am sure Gordon Gee didn't know Terrelle Pryor was driving every late model luxury car out there too. You are an apologist. Look, let's be blunt here.

We don't know the extent of which Joe knew about Sandusky's issues. But we do know that Mike McQueery caught Sandusky recreating the scene from Deliverance with a 10 year old boy in the showers at PSU. And he told Joe. And then Joe told Courley or Spanier or someone. Shouldn't have Joe made sure something was done. Not just act like Pontius Pilate and wash his hands of it. READ THE REPORT.

"What's amazing is the person who allegedly committed this heinous act is basically now second banana in the story. As our the people who covered it up. The focus is a man who did not commit or witness the crime...based on the facts we have now."

What more is there to be said about Sandusky?

I don't think that reflects a desire to lynch Paterno.

Keep in mind...this story is far from over...

Spanier's unquestioned and unconditional support for Curley and Schultz makes me wonder if he isn't very afraid of what they could say about him.

It's entirely possible that Curley and Schultz turn on Spanier and/or Paterno and implicate them, as well.

TheBestManagementTeaminSports:

READ THE REPORT

The report doesn't indicate exactly what McQueary actually told Paterno, nor does it indicate what thr AD told Paterno or what Paterno did to follow up on what he was told.

That's kind of the point.

BestManagementTeaminSports...

As I recall, the indightment against the Duke Lacrosse players was pretty damning as well.

And I'm not defending Sandusky based on that theory. I agree it looks very bad for him. I am defending Paterno based on that. I think innocent until proven guilty is a strong standard for deciding whether to hang somebody who did not commit or winess the crime but did report it up the chain of command.

Again, all I'm asking for is let the facts come out before we rush to judge.

In the end, Paterno is not going to survive this regardless. Neither is McQueary. I'm just hoping that we can exercise some degree of prudence before we bury a person...largely based on assumptions.

GenoSid:

Spanier's unquestioned and unconditional support for Curley and Schultz makes me wonder if he isn't very afraid of what they could say about him

My feeling is that Sapnier's support arises from the fact he knows his response to the 2002 allegation was not much more than a rubber stamp on a proposed unenforceable "ban" and he realizes that he's likely done as a result, if these allegations prove to be even remotely true.


As I noted earlier, I'm kind of surprised that he's avoided indictment for failure to report, even if he didn't lie to the grand jury about it.

Maybe that's in the cards in the future, but we'll have to wait and see on that part I suppose.

written by TheBestManagementTeaminSports, November 06, 2011 - 01:57 PM

Innocent until proven guilty? You are hanging onto this

---

Inncoent until guilty is the entire foundation of our legal system. We have taken the stance as a society that we would rather a guilty person go free than have an innocent person go to jail.

Everyone is entitled to this...even Sandusky. All of us would expect the same if we were accused of a crime.

And JoePa is not accused of the actual crime here. He is accused of participating in a cover-up. To me, that absolutely requires evidence and proof.

Let me be 100% clear on this...if Joe is proven to be involved in a cover up, I will 100% call for him to be implicated in the crime. I refuse to do this based on the FACTS we have to date.

AHab35 wrote;

And once again I remind everyone that all but one of these incidents are alleged to have occurred AWAY FROM THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM and totally outside of PSU's control.

Why are you blatantly lying about this? Victims 2,4,5,6,7 and 8 were all molested in either the Lasch Football building, or Holuba Hall, both of which are on campus. It's black and white in the report.

Krafty33...I'm not lying about this and frankly I resent the implication.

I made a mistake and I apologize for that. The initial reports I read made it seem as though this was part of Sandusky's charity. I am now aware of that and I fully apologize for my error and not being sufficiently informed on that part of the issue.

People make mistakes in this world that are not always melicous. Even high powered football coaches.

@ Ahab35;

You seemed pretty hardened on your stance with the bold letters, and you mentioned it several times. There's no need to apologize. I do appreciate it though.

You should read the grand jury report. It's linked in Bob's original story. I'll warn you it's quite disturbing and has pretty much ruined my day. But you'll gain a clearer understand of what exactly is at stake here. Good day sir.


The grand jury report is linking in this story and the ones previous to it. Easy to find.-- Bob Smizik

Make the trade...
This is a which comes first deal... do you need the offense... or do you need the closer..

In order to NEED a closer, Pirates need to be winning going into the 9th. With the measley offense Pirates have... they will rarely be in that position. Make the trade to be in the position of leading in the game going into the 9th.
Pirates have a few that can step in at closer.. maybe not as good as hanaran.. but good enough.



The Pirates won 72 times last year. That would indicate the times they had a lead going into the ninth were more that `rare.

Look...like any PSU alum, I'm going through the four stages of grief right now.

The reailty is this...regardless of what should or should not have happened, Paterno is not going to survive this. Its too big. This is a major scandal that's going to do irreperable harm to an institution that i love.

The man ultimately responsible for this is Jerry Sandusky. Everyone who suffers from this will do so because one sick deviant could not keep his hands of young boys.

My fear is that in the rush to implicate Paterno...and even McQueary, without all the facts. We are pretty sure a heinous crime (several) was/were committed by Sandusky. He should first and foremost be the object of prosecution and scorn.

We are also alledging a cover up. That is a significant charge and requires, no matter how difficult, a presumption of innocent until proven guilty. That goes to those charged with perjury...and those who are not.

Paterno deserves the presumption of innocence on a cover up until the facts come out.

AHab, Joe Paterno knew there was a cover-up because the police never contacted him to interview him about McQueary's visit to him. Paterno was 75 years old when this happened and was more than knowledgable enough to know that if the incident had been reported to police he would have been contacted very quickly, not only about McQueary's visit but also about Sandusky in general being that he was Sandusky's boss.

You're being naive. So to answer your question, that's how Paterno knew the incident had not been reported.

Blackops, you are right, McQuery is, at BEST, a coward. At worst he is an opportunist who chose to use this situation to further his career.

Bingram, I knew you'd get to that point eventually.

Happy Valley, is similar to any other large university where it is the dominate, or sole, source of economics for the town it is in - maybe even more so. People associated with the athletic program, most notably Division I football players in these towns, have been getting away with plenty as the police, mayor, council, and more are all financially beholden (or so they believe) to the university and its image.

If a football player at a more metropolitan school gets caught doing anything, it immediately gets out in the open for all to see. Witness Pitt's program over a six week period in the Summer of 2010.

Penn State has been able to subdue, if not thwart entirely, many incidences over the years that would have exposed the program for what it is - a football factory where the success of the program is the only thing that matters.

Unfortunately, it took the indictment of one of the most heinous acts (none worse, in my mind) in the history of college football to expose how greed and power can corrupt so thoroughly.

Yep, they must all go in order to rebuild any respectability and trust in the program. Don't stop with just the Coach, AD, CFO, etc. The President has shown no moral leadership as well and seems equally complacent. Universities need to rise above the legal advise they get from their General Councils. Spanier should fire all of the above and then resign. That would solve many problems for PSU and get them back on the right track. Spanier would be admired and praised for doing so.

Bob, I'm surprised that you've jumped to a conclusion that Paterno is responsible for this tawdry affair?

What information do you have that Paterno was fully aware of what administration officials above him were doing on this? Do you know that they lied to Paterno? Or do you know that they simply did not fully respond to any followup that Paterno requested? The answer is you don't, nor do I.

It is ridiculous to say that everyone involved should have gone to the police. That's what a chain of command reporting is for. Until we find out what Paterno knew and when he knew it, I can't possibly see how you can write such a story, indicting Joe Paterno.

Paterno may be just as guilty as the rest. But the evidence so far does not suggest this. Why must you join the rush of ill informed sport writers around the country to put Paterno behind bars without knowing all the facts in the case?

Let's recall one important fact that so many seem to be overlooking here - Joe Paterno did NOT witness a crime allegedly committed by his friend of forty years, Jerry Sandusky.

He got it second hand. Had Joe witnessed the crime first hand, we'd have a totally different take on Mr. Paterno.

Therefore, why the rush to indict without further evidence?

Seriously one of the most disturbing (and completey unacceptable) things I've ever read about on a sports blog. No punishment is too much for every single person involved in this who did this, did nothing about what happened, allowed this to go on, gave the fox the key to the henhouse to continue doing it, etc. Our world does not need these types of sick people in it. Round them all up, attach them to the biggest rocket you can find, and fire them the hell out of there.

Disgusting.

I hope for the sake of humanity, Paterno does not win the Medal of Freedom. What a disgrace. He should call NASA and buy one of those retired space shuttles and launch himeself the hell out of here. Finally, the space progam can benefit the public good directly.

Humans at their absolute worst.

I had to log in on this. Fire them all? You are too kind. Throw them all in jail!!!

Simply put if this was Paterno's grandchild - would he have simply reported it to the AD?!?! He DID NOT do the right thing. He put a child(ren)'s welfare behind his ability to recruit and his image. His comments make him look worse; if he can tarnish his image even further he is. Sad.

I'm not a Penn State fan but it is sad that this is how Joe Paterno's career ends. This is certainly worse than recruiting violations.