A depressing link, Bob. What a horrible cover-up. Every hour that passes without action against Spanier or Paterno is criminal.

I'm amazed (and sickened, frankly) that Spanier is still employed today.

And if Paterno believes his own words about winning with honor, all the while knowing -- KNOWING!! -- the unspeakable crimes that were going on under his watch, how on earth can he justify staying?

Spanier's words of support of his accused enabling AD are horrific. So are JoePa's: "If this is true...". If? IF??

97 hours 15 minutes until kickoff

wow... this story is getting bigger by the minute.

no way JoePa can stick around. Media from his backyard are hammering him. The national press is in Happy Valley.. JoePa charm is not going to work on them!!!

Can't wait to see video of the pressor today!!!

We all know about Paterno wit and sacasim... I just hope he doesn't do any of that today. He will be buried alive by the media if he does.

Meathead with regards to your posts they are exactly why PSU Adminstrators and JoePa are in the situation that now faces them. The program is not above all in life.

NY Times reports Curley informed Spanier of the incidents. Why isn't Spanier gone?

This is disgusting - and anyone who thinks this magically started in 1998 is kidding themselves. This pervert was having his fun all along - just wait until it all comes out.

As if the heinous crimes and equally heinous cover-up aren't enough, we as taxpayers will have the privilege of paying legal fees for the defense of Curley and Schultz as well as humongous settlements to the multiple victims. WE ARE? No thanks.

I wished we were still talking about the Pirates Front Office.

As a life long PSU fan, I feel betrayed and disgusted by all of this. Spanier, Joe, the entire staff, they ALL MUST GO, and GO NOW.

It is a disgrace that these cowards put themselves first and did not go to the State Police for the sake of these helpless boys.

I hope Sandusky rots.

Joe says, "We were all fooled!" Does he (and they) think we're all stupid enough to buy that?

JoePa will be sued to oblivion by the parents of the later victims that were raped after he covered & enabled. What defense could he possible offer: "I did as little as possible, too bad what happened to your kid, IF it was true...".

Are there any planned protests by victim's groups? Something like that would really turn up the heat, which is already hot to me. Except for Paterno and Spanier who seem oblivious to the fact they might have done something wrong by not doing enough. PSUers, make your stand that your beloved university should not be involved in a cover up of child abuse. This, to me, goes beyond a cover up, it is almost like the university made it possible. So I call on PSUers to not attend the game this week. Let the board know how you feel. I call on you to inform them you will no longer donate money, if you are a student or prospective student inform them you won't be back next semester unless something is done.
If you are an education major at PSU and you are doing nothing about it, shame on you. You are becoming a teacher to protect kids and by standing pat, you are letting your principles be know.
Fire them all today. If you don't stand up, you're letting your university know you condone this.

The trust of young people in any adult is sacred. It is the highest honor any adult can be given. And it is the lowest of betrayals when that trust is so tarnished.

Here is 1 link to Paterno live pressor...

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/8/2546876/watch-joe-paterno-press-conference-live-online-streaming-video

Finally a point of view from the REAL victims, not the one Paterno/PSU apologists are trying to formulate from a "media witch hunt".

Reading this is almost as bad as reading the presentment. Even worse are the comments from Sandusky's lawyer. I understand he is doing his job, but he makes me want to vomit.

To think, some of this could have been prevented. But then again, we wouldn't want people doing more than the minimum, going that Second Mile, right?

I cannot wait to hear the blow-back from today's presser. PSU is insisting that all Qs be football only; which would be like being limited to asking the Titanic survivory only about the food service and china.

I know ESPN and Yahoo.Sports are sending their heavy hitters, national names who won't be brow-beaten to toe the company line. For one, Pat Forde is going, I heard him on Dan Patrick this AM saying he won't adhere to the advisory.

I'll bet paterno walks out, adding to his waning winning with honor legend.

Has PSU hired some big name Public Relations firm to guide them through this mess!!!
I hope they are there sitting next to Paterno as ya never know what Paterno will say!!!

There will be more info from victims and PSU employees and it is not going to get better. Time to shut it down...anyone tied to this has got to go..or more important come clean....better to get it all out now...the truth hurts...and right now PSU cant handle the truth

Immaman:

Say what you want about his actions, but by following the law as written, he's not really open to any liability what-so-ever.

The school, as well as the two priciples currently charged and possibly Spanier are certainly on the hook, but Joe is pretty much in the clear from any liability.

That's not to say he won't be named in a suit, as well as likely McQueary, but both will end up being tossed.

“My son is extremely distraught, and now to see how we were betrayed, words cannot tell you. To see that Graham Spanier is putting his unconditional support behind Curley and Shultz when he should be putting his support behind the victims, it just makes them victims all over again.”

Do these victims have any legal recourse to sue the University and staff for millions and millions of dollars? It doe snot make it right but at least that money can start a healing process.

PSU now stands for Pedophile State University.

Spanier just canceled the press conference.

The arrogance of these scum to purport that Paterno didn't know the extent of this tragedy is ludicrous. This is a program that for years has controlled the State College and PSU police departments regarding players and staff and are informed of every possible indiscretion and criminal act by members and participants in that program.Their denials and decepion are just shameful.

Why am I NOT surprised the press conference has been cancelled so everyone can keep quiet?!

Joe wear a hearing aid? Be a good day for the battery to die out. I expect him to be coaching from the booth wearing a Tricky Dick Nixon mask.

Hard to believe the repuation of Penn State and legacy of Paterno may never be the same in about two hours. It's been shaken now but limited to certain individuals. Now the entire institution and athletic department must show what it really stands for.

I just read they canceled the presss conference? You mean to tell me all of a sudden that paterno is listening to his supposed bosses?

I just cannot stomach another second of this horrible story. With every new revelation I have less respect for Coach Paterno.
It could be reasonably argued that Mr. Sandusky has an illness but the actions of the university administration are not something I expect from that institution. The calculated deception by those people in charge are a complete embarrassment and put more children at risk.
In the past I have always thought it was a love for football that kept Mr. Paterno on the sidelines. I have come to believe now that it was an unchecked ego that fueled his hanging on.
Shame on you Coach Paterno for not alerting the police. That was your moral obligation as a coach and parent.
Coach, you may be bigger than the program, the athletic department and the entire university. But as a man, you are lessened in my eyes forever!

PSU will get sued. They don't have to name JoePa or MM as Defendants.

Hopefully they quickly depose JoePa (before he dies), MM, and the rest of the dirtbags.

Hearing from the real victims's families is so sad and puts this into more perspective. Sadly, those defending JoePa, MM amd the rest of the PSU dirtbags will continue to defend them no matter what.

My heart goes out to these kids and their families.

The most amazing thing I have heard is that PSU administrators, JoePa, or whomever has continued to let this Pedophile on campus at least as of last week. Pretty sickened by it actually.

When JoePa says "We were all fooled", I do agree. JoePa did have us all fooled.

He did alot of great things over his tenure, but he has only stayed on as a coach for the past 15 years out of sheer selfishness and egotism. He didn't care about anyone or anything but himself. The same mindset is the reason for him burying this for so long.

Paterno Pressor is cancelled.

Paterno was going to answer questions regarding the scandal... PSU Spanier cancelled pressor. Paterno son (Scott who is an attorney) put out a release.

wow..
what arrogance Paterno has..
He really does think he is the Pope of Happy Valley.... that he is untouchable...
wow... just wow...
Paterno is delusional. Knowing his wit and sarcasim... it would not go well...

For the record, civil law is different thatn criminal law. Just because Joe followed the letter of the criminal law doesn't mean the lawsuit against him wil be thrown out. They didn't get OJ criminally, but they got him civilly. I would expect the same here, you think people aren't going to cover their butts to protect themselves from a lawsuit. Dealin with people's money and the REAL truth will come out.

We'll see, but I don't think at this point Joe Paterno will be able to articulate all that he needs to say and explain today. I hope he doesn't make a fool of himself. Or, perhaps I hope he does. This is what happens when you surround yourself with nothing but acolytes and yes-men. Kings, presidents, Shakespeare's heros have all learned the hard way not to let yourself become bigger than your own ideals.

But I do have a question about media scrutiny and penn State football. Paterno may have never controlled local coverage, but he has influenced it the way big fish in small ponds have always ensured favorable coverage: through access. I can understand the Centre County Daily Times not pushing, but what about the PG and Philly PSU beat writers?

Did they do all they could to investigate these Sandusky rumors--which apparantly have been around for over a decade. I know a few people close to the football program who have said to me in recent days basically "oh, sure, there were rumors, just gossip, but that was all." that's fine. We all hear a lot of gossip and rumor that has no basis in anything.

But why didn't professional journalists, paid to go to the wall to find out the truth, not hammer away at these rumors for the past 10 years? All they had to report was that Sandusky was under investigation.

If you're going to tell me that they tried, but there is an "omerta" around Paterno that would make Tony Soprano weep, then I'll tell you Joe was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania. That may be the sace. If it is, then Penn State is guilty of not exercising institutional control and letting Paterno get too imperious to university oversight.

The type of fishbowl Pitt operates in--under the gaze of big-time reporters and columnists, four local TV stations, sports talk radio and any number of independent blogs--is ultimately for the good. Joe needed much more oversight, from his school and from the media.

The headline writer missed with that one. I mean what did you expect the Moms to say? Moms of victims greatly pleased with PSU, Paterno? Now THAT would a story. The fact that they're sharply critical is kind of a given.

Not sure I can think of another sports instance in which such a lofty reputation took such a devastating, permanent hit...and this one will stick and will last. Just an incredible story.

Oh, and spare me any "But I NEVER liked the guy" and "His rep was always some concocted, carefully crafted thing" replies. I was never a Paterno fan, but I'm talking about his overall national reputation. it was as solid as anyone's in sports. And now...wow. What a fall this will be. Not taking satisfaction in it by any means. Just an observation by a middle-aged sports fan.

does this mean a bigger statement is coming later?

I'm not sure they're allowed to cancel the press conference. I think Big Ten rules require a weekly press conference, but I could be wrong. Although I suppose since PSU is going to pony up millions of millions to deal with this scandal, then I guess they won't mind paying the fine for skipping the Nebraska press conference.

Presser cancelled, the cover up continues. My guess is that JoePa, like another Joe (Biden) would let something slip that was meant to be funny but would be so offensive and outrageous to common decency that a riot might break out.

And hey, this way Spanier might get to keep his job for another day.

superczar:

Joe is not guilty of a crime, nor was he charged with one. He had no liability to do anything other than follow the law, which again he did. You may not like his inaction after the fact, but he has no civil responsibility to do anything other than what he did.

Your OJ example is a completely different situation, as OJ was charged with a crime but found not guilty based on the evidence provided. Joe is not being charged with anything as he is not even presumed to have violated the law, so there is literally nothing he can be held liable for.

No moreso than finding a passerby on the street liable for not intervening in a rape that they witness.

Again, you can condemn his inaction after the fact however much you want, but he had no legal responsibiltiy to do anything other than he did.

Sportscenter just said a 9th victim came forward. I missed the report so I'm unsure of the specifics.

btoc

JoePa has civil liability.... on so many counts!!

One can only hope and it's extremely unlikely is the press conference was canceled due to the fact resignations are coming later in the day. In fact, I'm not so sure anybody involved with this story should be allowed to resign, that would be to dignified. Fire em all immediately.

Joe D:

Feel free to highlight the civil statutes that require him or anyone for that matter to do anything more than he did, thus making him liable and therefore open to a civil lawsuit.

Have fun.

written by Pantherfan85, November 08, 2011 - 12:13 PM

Sportscenter just said a 9th victim came forward. I missed the report so I'm unsure of the specifics.

Sandusky's "charity" was founded in 1977. The current criminal case deals with incidents that started in the mid-1990s. Given that Sandusky's actions are those of a serial child rapist, it would be naive to think that he did not start molesting little boys until the mid-1990s. There are probably many victims from the 70s, 80s and early 90s who have not come forward. This may just be the beginning. Say goodbye to the current Penn State adminstration, including Joe Pa. Their days are numbered.

I posted this on the other blog entry, but I will repeat it here.

Penn State would win respect from me were they simply to forfeit Saturday's game.

This has pushed my tolerance for big time college athletics over the edge. There should be an end to athletic scholarships. Get rid of the money and the cesspool will drain.

...
NY Times: "Penn State Said to Be Planning Paterno’s Exit Amid Scandal"

Just watching ESPN with Matt Millen talking. He just broke down and starting sobbing talking it.
What a horrible, horrible situation.
Now ESPN is reporting that the NEW YOrk Times is reporting that JoPa is stepping down

The demise of the NCAA "Death Penalty" appear indeed to have been greatly exaggerated...

This reprehensible scandal will ultimately be the wooden stake to the heart of a once proud/elite program...from which I doubt it will ever recover

...nor do I even care, at this point, if it does not!

Justice is the only priority, it must be served & it must be thorough...no one even remotely considered to be involved should escape it's alsolute scrutiny...

and those proven to have been liable need to be punished to the fullest extend, with no benefit of doubt offered, nor mercy shown!

As a PSU alum I have been sickened to my core, most likely never to recover...now just imagine the horrors of the victims & their families.

My thoughts & prayers go out to you, one & all.

What about a moral and ethical responsibility that Paterno has? He has shamed the entire community and let children be in jeopardy from Sandusky.

Cancelling the presser means that Spanier and Paterno won't be in their positions by the end of the day

NEW YORK TIMES reporting JoPa is stepping down.

I cannot believe that there is a statute of limitations on bringing charges of sex crimes against children.
May be too late but this has to be changed.

At least nobody will be talking about the time JoePa crapped his pants anymore......

superczar: You are correct with regard to civil law. And to further expound on the point, when Sandusky goes to trial, does anyone think his lawyer(s) are going to let him take 100% of the blame? Oh no! They will be looking to take some people to hell along with Sandusky. Sad Sad Sad

Another victim has come forward, stands at 9 now.

Checked the NYT site... says they're figuring out a timetable for JoPa's exit.
I truly can't believe I'm even typing this. I'm so angry and feel like crying at the same time.



The story is posted on another thread. -- Bob Smizik

b of c...
Duty of Care...
Paterno knew as early as 1998!!!
Keep drinking the koolaid if you are believing what Paterno is saying.

My guess is that JoePa will announce soon that he is retiring at the end of the season, which quite frankly imo just isn't good enough. The exit strategy should be quite simple, "You have been relieved of your duties".

I haven't seen such an abuse of power since Watergate. Now it may be the same outcome

Looks like PSU Board of Trustees have taken over!!!
NY Times put out article that they are planning and negotiating the exit of Paterno.
Spanier will be next.

Maybe Little Joe as i now see him may end up being raped of his legacy by Big Hoss.(The AG office)
He will only be a legend in his own mind.

Joe D:
I'm ingoring your last sentance strawman. With that said, you stuill didn't answer my question, so I;ll repeat it:

Which statutue did Joe Paterno violate in his action/inactions. To that point, he followed the law as written.

Again, have fun.

superczar:

Apparently reading comprhension is not your strong suit. I openly acknowledge he may be sued. With that said, as has been noted, it will be tossed out if he is, as he quite clearly followed the letter of the law.

Further, and perceptions aside, Joe Paterno literally has no authority to prevent someone from being on campus.

Zero.

Zilch.

Even in a circumstance where Sanduasky is known to be under criminal investigation, he has no power or authority to prevent him from being on campus. Only the University does. You can argue to you're blue in the face he could have imposed his will to make the University adopt that stance, but the fact remains he has no authority to enforce it himself. The law works based in realities, not perceptions.

Sorry.

written by Imma Man! Im 40!, November 08, 2011 - 12:56 PM


I wonder if this topic was broached in that infamous meeting on paterno's porch in 2004 when spanier and curley asked him to retire. Wanna bet joepa said he'd blow the whistle if they didn't get the [heck] off his porch? We'll never know, but we know...

I posted as much over the weekend as I too believe this to be a reasonable scenario...

likewise, McQuery to me always seemed to be a bit young/no fit the mold of a high profile PSU assistant

...hmmm???

Joe is not guilty of a crime, nor was he charged with one. He had no liability to do anything other than follow the law, which again he did. You may not like his inaction after the fact, but he has no civil responsibility to do anything other than what he did.

Your OJ example is a completely different situation, as OJ was charged with a crime but found not guilty based on the evidence provided. Joe is not being charged with anything as he is not even presumed to have violated the law, so there is literally nothing he can be held liable for.

No moreso than finding a passerby on the street liable for not intervening in a rape that they witness.

Again, you can condemn his inaction after the fact however much you want, but he had no legal responsibiltiy to do anything other than he did.

So Joe P. didn't break the law. Wonderful! Did his inaction lead to the continued rape of children? IMO, YES! The law is written by men with all our wicked vices built into it. What Paterno did was violate the laws of humanity and decency. If you have even the slightest hint that someone is hurting children you have the moral responsibility to do what is right, he can hide behind the "law" all he wants but he knows like most do that

His Judgement Cometh and that Right Soon....

...
written by boom goes the dynamite, November 08, 2011 - 12:34 PM
My guess is that JoePa will announce soon that he is retiring at the end of the season, which quite frankly imo just isn't good enough. The exit strategy should be quite simple, "You have been relieved of your duties".

Give him one hour to gather their belongings and escort both of them from the campus. Retirement is not good enough, PSU needs to FIRE them NOW! 9 lives and counting now destroyed for the protection of the friggin FOOTBALL program for christ sake!

B to the C. I'm a lawyer. You dont need a civil statute to sue somebody and be successful.

The fact is that PSU will be sued and a large, large portion of that lawsuit will be centered on JoePa's action. get a clue.

botka:

Thanks for providing your fictional law degree resume.

As an "attorney", you would know that yes you need to violate the law in order to be successfully sued.

With that said, since you're an "attorney", precicely which PA civil statute did Joe Paterno violate, setting him up to be sued?

...

Further, and perceptions aside, Joe Paterno literally has no authority to prevent someone from being on campus.

And Joe has no authority to refused to be fired, but he did.

Max:

No, his "refusal to be fired" only happened because the administration caved.

That responsility still ultimately fell upon them.

B to the C, you don't have to violate the law to be sued. What law did OJ violate? He was found not guilty. Therefore didn't violate any law.
My reading comprehension is fine, here is what you said "Say what you want about his actions, but by following the law as written, he's not really open to any liability what-so-ever." I know you also said it will be tossed out, implying that the lawsuit would have no merit and in effect it would like not being sued at all. You still can't be more wrong. You don't have to violate a criminal law to be sued civilly
Are you just ignorant or just so head up Joe's butt dumb that if Joe said I don't want Sandusky back on campus they would have banned him. He ran PSU, any assertion otherwise is just naive or blissfully ignorant.
Obviously. someone has the power to ban people since he was FINALLY banned last week. Did they pass a special law that said Jerry Sandusky is not allowed on campus anymore? Pass the buck all you want and make your self-serving points all you want but you are wrong and ignorant and twist facts and perceptions. But Joe runs the place. PSUers state that and believe it and emabrace it.

superczar:

Yes, you absolutely have to violate the law to be sued successfully.

That's precicely what it's called a lawsuit.

That point alone seems to have eluded you and your counterpart thus far.

As far as OJ Simpson goes, the victims familes files and won a wrongful death lawsuit, where the preponderance of evindence only needs to found by majority of the jury, not the entirety of the jury.

As to violating criminal law to be sued civilly, I'm not aware I;ve made that argument yet. But again, a civil law needs to be broken, of which you've neglected to cite which of the PA civil statues has been broken by Joe Paterno thus far.

Lastly, as to the power to ban people, yes Sandusky was finally banned....by the University, not Joe Paterno.

The only twisting going on is the fact that you literally have no idea what you're talking about and just starting to make up more stuff to try to cover for that fact, rather than just admit that you were wrong.

P.S. A not guilty verdict in a criminal case DOES NOT mean that a law was nto violated. It only means that the prosecution did not prove that the law was broken beyond a reasonable doubt.

That you don't know the difference between the two speaks volumes.

B to the C, re,
"As an "attorney", you would know that yes you need to violate the law in order to be successfully sued."

Not a legal eagle, but you can be successfully sued if someone falls down on your property.

Kevin Morris:

That's because there are civil laws in place that under certain circumstance that make you legally responsible for what happens on your property.

B to the C, I get that, thanks. So that means you don't have to violate the law to be successfully sued, right?

Kevin Morris:

So that means you don't have to violate the law to be successfully sued, right?

Huh? There a laws that make you legally responsible for your own property. If someone gets injured due to your negligence, you are in violation of those laws leaving you open to being sued.

If not, then no.

Maybe reading something like this will help:

http://www.telltully.net/Tully...bility.htm

Some of the hazards on the premises of a residential property that can lead to an injury to a guest visiting that home include:

* Broken sidewalks
* Rotting or defective staircases
* Staircases without a proper railing
* Loose or falling debris
* Slippery conditions

If you were injured because of someone else’s recklessness, negligence, or intentional wrongdoing, you want to talk to Pittsburgh homeowners liability injury attorney Bernard Tully.

or this

http://www.cbmclaw.com/Persona...lity.shtml

Whether you are a visitor or guest at another's home or a patron at a business establishment, you have the right to expect that the homeowner or business owner will maintain their property to ensure your safety. If you are injured, and the property owner or other responsible party failed to properly maintain their property, you may have a claim for compensation for your injuries.

These each list instances where failing to main your property safely makes you in violation of the law, thus open to being sued.

This is pretty simple stuff here, so I'm failing to understand what's difficult to understand about it.

B to the C, not to nitpick over semantics, but failure to, say, make sure that your porch steps aren't rotted does not constitute a "violation of the law." Obviously we all have responsibilities beyond what is illegal.

Kevin Morris:

Yes, failure to make sure that your porch steps aren't rotted is very much in vilolation of civil law if someone is injured as a result.

That's what makes you liable for the injury.

As to other responsibilities outside the law, I'm not arguing that, but failure to meet such criteria is very much in the eye of the individual beholder and not subject to civil or criminal lawsuits, which is the only pont that I've made thus far.