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Sunday, 05 February 2012 13:15
There was surprise and anguish over some of the people who failed to make the enshrinement list of the Pro Football Hall of Fame yesterday. Wide receiver Cris Carter, statistically an all-time great, would fit the surprise category and coach Bill Parcells the anguish.
It won't be any easier next year. Which means that Jerome Bettis could be excluded in his third attempt at enshrinement.
By Josh Alper, ProFootballTalk.com
Saturday was a tough day for those who just missed out on election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Things don’t figure to get much easier for Bill Parcells, Cris Carter, Charles Haley, Andre Reed and the other finalists who couldn’t garner enough support to join those elected to the Hall. The ballot will add several big names next year, making it certain that some of those men will miss out on enshrinement once again.
The biggest names on the list are Larry Allen, Jonathan Ogden and Michael Strahan. Allen made seven All-Pro teams during his career with the Cowboys and was a member of the All-Decade team for both the 1990s and 2000s. Ogden joined him on the latter team and made nine All-Pro teams as one of the best left tackles the game has ever seen. Strahan was also on the All-Decade team for the 2000s, holds the single-season sack record and was the 2001 NFL Defensive Player of the Year. All three men have Super Bowl rings on top of those individual accolades and seem like good bets to wind up with yellow blazers in the future.
Read the rest of the story.
Comments (24)
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written by 123, February 05, 2012 - 11:58 AM
written by 123, February 05, 2012 - 11:58 AM
I read where some voters are reticent to cast for a coach/owner because it will mean one less player getting in and there's already a logjam built up over the years.
To alleviate that they should create totally separate categories that don't cannabalize each other. Vets. Players. Builders (which would be owners, coaches, commissioners, etc.).
I think Parcells and Eddie DeBartolo belong in but I would probably hesitate to vote for them if it meant leaving a player out!
The NFL is the best league and I have been to all 4 HOFs and Canton is the worst....it's dump, hard against an interstate and it's the worst run, too. Time to redo everything about the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
To alleviate that they should create totally separate categories that don't cannabalize each other. Vets. Players. Builders (which would be owners, coaches, commissioners, etc.).
I think Parcells and Eddie DeBartolo belong in but I would probably hesitate to vote for them if it meant leaving a player out!
The NFL is the best league and I have been to all 4 HOFs and Canton is the worst....it's dump, hard against an interstate and it's the worst run, too. Time to redo everything about the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
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written by 123, February 05, 2012 - 12:20 PM
written by 123, February 05, 2012 - 12:20 PM
And furthermore!
Goodell said this weekend there has been discussion of dropping the Pro Bowl (although rating remain good, they say.)
The league has already trivialized it further, if possbile, by making it the week before the Super Bowl, which guarantees each year some of the best won't show up....which is the case when they show up anyway.
Yeah, I watched it. Did anyone see Revis escort his Pitt alum opposite Fitzgerald into the end zone on that TD pass early in the game? That was hysterical. Looked like a baseball oldtimers game.
Goodell said this weekend there has been discussion of dropping the Pro Bowl (although rating remain good, they say.)
The league has already trivialized it further, if possbile, by making it the week before the Super Bowl, which guarantees each year some of the best won't show up....which is the case when they show up anyway.
Yeah, I watched it. Did anyone see Revis escort his Pitt alum opposite Fitzgerald into the end zone on that TD pass early in the game? That was hysterical. Looked like a baseball oldtimers game.
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written by imgreat95, February 05, 2012 - 12:21 PM
written by imgreat95, February 05, 2012 - 12:21 PM
Quite simply, having a limit on the number who can get in is ridiculous.
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written by Darkhorses, February 05, 2012 - 12:46 PM
written by Darkhorses, February 05, 2012 - 12:46 PM
I listened to John clayton as he explained the voting. He said when you sometimes have several people at the same position, the votes get divided and one gets left out. Maybe it happens next year.
Sorry, I just don't picture McNair as a HOF player. Tough as nails and an MVP but stats were not overwhelming
Sorry, I just don't picture McNair as a HOF player. Tough as nails and an MVP but stats were not overwhelming
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written by reyjose, February 05, 2012 - 12:48 PM
written by reyjose, February 05, 2012 - 12:48 PM
Bettis will get in eventually, right? What's the big rush?
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written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 01:09 PM
written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 01:09 PM
Darkhorses--
One of those subjective criterions always thrown out there is, "Did you ever consider him the best player at his position, and for how long?"
I'll tell you what...personally, as a fan, I was never afraid of Steve McNair. At least not any more than any other above average QB. I mean, his MVP he won, he didn't even win outright...didn't he share it with Peyton Manning?
Tough as nails, yes...but not a Hall of Famer.
One of those subjective criterions always thrown out there is, "Did you ever consider him the best player at his position, and for how long?"
I'll tell you what...personally, as a fan, I was never afraid of Steve McNair. At least not any more than any other above average QB. I mean, his MVP he won, he didn't even win outright...didn't he share it with Peyton Manning?
Tough as nails, yes...but not a Hall of Famer.
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written by cramden, February 05, 2012 - 01:11 PM
written by cramden, February 05, 2012 - 01:11 PM
Jerry Bettis was a pretty pedestrian running back. 3 yards & a cloud of dust. Anybody can do it if they get 300 carries a year. No way he gets in. Overrated & never broke a big one. Plus his dance after his 3 yard "bursts" were irritating.
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written by Pensin7, February 05, 2012 - 01:21 PM
written by Pensin7, February 05, 2012 - 01:21 PM
Wrong Cramden.
Most guys that played Bettis style of RB could barely walk when they were 35. The big fella did it for 13 years. No other big back did it that well for that long.
Even in his last few years when he transformed from an every down back, to a short yardage specialist were great. He was brilliant at it! He was money inside the 10 yard line. I actually miss being close to the goal line and not worrying because I KNEW we were going to score. That's what Jerome brought even in his later years.
Not to mention that in the mid-late 90s he was dominant at times.
But of course, some people will just cynically write him off as "Fat guy who just ran into people all game til they didn't feel like tackling him anymore"... like that's the easiest job in the world or something!
Most guys that played Bettis style of RB could barely walk when they were 35. The big fella did it for 13 years. No other big back did it that well for that long.
Even in his last few years when he transformed from an every down back, to a short yardage specialist were great. He was brilliant at it! He was money inside the 10 yard line. I actually miss being close to the goal line and not worrying because I KNEW we were going to score. That's what Jerome brought even in his later years.
Not to mention that in the mid-late 90s he was dominant at times.
But of course, some people will just cynically write him off as "Fat guy who just ran into people all game til they didn't feel like tackling him anymore"... like that's the easiest job in the world or something!
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written by Pensin7, February 05, 2012 - 01:23 PM
written by Pensin7, February 05, 2012 - 01:23 PM
And btw, I saw him break a 50 yarder in person in a game against Tampa Bay back in 2001, so you're wrong again.
Do you forget how nimble and fast he was for a big man in his prime?
And I don't recall him ever doing his dance after a 3-yard gain. You're either just being sarcastic, or unfairly critical.
Do you forget how nimble and fast he was for a big man in his prime?
And I don't recall him ever doing his dance after a 3-yard gain. You're either just being sarcastic, or unfairly critical.
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written by reyjose, February 05, 2012 - 01:34 PM
written by reyjose, February 05, 2012 - 01:34 PM
Bettis the 4th leading rusher in NFL history. To say that any running back could have done what Bettis did is not very logical. If it was that easy, why can't everyone do it?
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written by Darkhorses, February 05, 2012 - 01:57 PM
written by Darkhorses, February 05, 2012 - 01:57 PM
SeanAY: So you agree with me about McNair
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written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 02:01 PM
written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 02:01 PM
Darkhorses--
Precisely.
I don't have to disagree with eveyrone on this blog, right?
Precisely.
I don't have to disagree with eveyrone on this blog, right?
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written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 02:03 PM
written by SeanAY, February 05, 2012 - 02:03 PM
Apparently I disagree with the dictionary on the proper spelling of "everyone," though.
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written by Edgybear, February 05, 2012 - 02:06 PM
written by Edgybear, February 05, 2012 - 02:06 PM
Hey Cramden
What do you think of Ray Lewis' antics? Oh I forgot, you like them - don't you. Jerome did the same basically only he was a Steeler. What a joke you are.
What do you think of Ray Lewis' antics? Oh I forgot, you like them - don't you. Jerome did the same basically only he was a Steeler. What a joke you are.
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written by heartbeatsings, February 05, 2012 - 02:07 PM
To me, none of the crop next year are automatic first ballot HOF'ers.
written by heartbeatsings, February 05, 2012 - 02:07 PM
To me, none of the crop next year are automatic first ballot HOF'ers.
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written by AHab35, February 05, 2012 - 03:06 PM
written by AHab35, February 05, 2012 - 03:06 PM
I would tend to agree with Bob that in the long run, players get in or don't get in on merit rather than their relationship with the media. However I would say there are a few catches to that theory...
1) You may have to wait longer. Simply put, if your borderline and the press did not like you, you're waiting longer. Dan Fouts was too good to be passed over.
2) If you are a boarderline candidate you may not get in. Simple example, Tom Barrasso. Not a sure fire HOF but certainly a strong candidate. You will never convince me that his acerbic personality and hostile relationship with the media is not a huge part of the reason he's not in.
I don't even know who votes in the hockey HOF. I can tell you in total honesty if I voted and I thought Barrasso belonged, I'd vote for him. I think most voters feel that way.
Of course, personal feelings cannot be entirely ruled out. Voters are human. But they are not as biased as you and others suggest. -- Bob Smizik
1) You may have to wait longer. Simply put, if your borderline and the press did not like you, you're waiting longer. Dan Fouts was too good to be passed over.
2) If you are a boarderline candidate you may not get in. Simple example, Tom Barrasso. Not a sure fire HOF but certainly a strong candidate. You will never convince me that his acerbic personality and hostile relationship with the media is not a huge part of the reason he's not in.
I don't even know who votes in the hockey HOF. I can tell you in total honesty if I voted and I thought Barrasso belonged, I'd vote for him. I think most voters feel that way.
Of course, personal feelings cannot be entirely ruled out. Voters are human. But they are not as biased as you and others suggest. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Meathead, February 05, 2012 - 03:55 PM
written by Meathead, February 05, 2012 - 03:55 PM
Jerome Bettis was the Dave Kingman of the NFL albeit with a cuter nickname
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written by Rich W, February 05, 2012 - 04:22 PM
First off, not sure why you'd bring up Bettis. He didn't make the final 15. IMO, there are at least four who should get in before Jerome (Carter, Parcells, Brown, Haley).
Do I have specifics? I wasn't in any locker room or media junket. I'll just go by what contemporaries say.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/09000d5d826a49e8/Biggest-snubs-of-2012
Was trying to find a video of this morning's ESPN2 with Kordell, et.al. talking about the contentious media relationships of Carter and Parcells and how there's no other reasonable explanation for their not getting in.
Covering the NFL is not like covering MLB. Most writers have little and usually no interaction with opposing players. I know some of the people who vote and they take it very seriously. They consider it an honor and treat it thusly.
As someone who votes for the baseball HOF, I never consider the player's relationship with me or the media when voting.
I brought up Bettis because if the media were as biased as you suggest, he'd be in because everyone loved him.
Fouts, a total jerk with the media, was a first ballot enshrinee.
No voting system is infallible. -- Bob Smizik
written by Rich W, February 05, 2012 - 04:22 PM
I doubt you could offer specifics.
One of the biggest jerks toward the media when I was working was Dan Fouts, who is in the HOF. One of the all-time great guys, Jerome Bettis is not. -- Bob Smizik
First off, not sure why you'd bring up Bettis. He didn't make the final 15. IMO, there are at least four who should get in before Jerome (Carter, Parcells, Brown, Haley).
Do I have specifics? I wasn't in any locker room or media junket. I'll just go by what contemporaries say.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/09000d5d826a49e8/Biggest-snubs-of-2012
Was trying to find a video of this morning's ESPN2 with Kordell, et.al. talking about the contentious media relationships of Carter and Parcells and how there's no other reasonable explanation for their not getting in.
Covering the NFL is not like covering MLB. Most writers have little and usually no interaction with opposing players. I know some of the people who vote and they take it very seriously. They consider it an honor and treat it thusly.
As someone who votes for the baseball HOF, I never consider the player's relationship with me or the media when voting.
I brought up Bettis because if the media were as biased as you suggest, he'd be in because everyone loved him.
Fouts, a total jerk with the media, was a first ballot enshrinee.
No voting system is infallible. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Mark Basile, February 05, 2012 - 04:37 PM
written by Mark Basile, February 05, 2012 - 04:37 PM
I'll try and do everybody one better with this one:
How about Ray Guy? Why isn't he in.
The HOF selection process is about as fair as choosing sides for a sand lot pick-up game.
It's all about prejudiced perception.
If you take it too seriously, well, tough bananas I guess. If you don't, join the crowd.
As I wrote above, no system is infallible. Many voters do not believe kickers should be in the HOF. And, yes, I know Stenerud is in.
Guy is 129th all-time in yards per punt. He led the league three times. He was all-pro three times (in a three-year period). Not saying he doesn't belong but he may not be as clear cut as you remember him. --- Bob Smizik
How about Ray Guy? Why isn't he in.
The HOF selection process is about as fair as choosing sides for a sand lot pick-up game.
It's all about prejudiced perception.
If you take it too seriously, well, tough bananas I guess. If you don't, join the crowd.
As I wrote above, no system is infallible. Many voters do not believe kickers should be in the HOF. And, yes, I know Stenerud is in.
Guy is 129th all-time in yards per punt. He led the league three times. He was all-pro three times (in a three-year period). Not saying he doesn't belong but he may not be as clear cut as you remember him. --- Bob Smizik
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written by Mark Basile, February 05, 2012 - 05:00 PM
written by Mark Basile, February 05, 2012 - 05:00 PM
Bob - I cannot dispute the stats, you are absolutley correct. But when Ray Guy is included as a member of the all-NFL team as a punter, what does that tell you? Are we going to ignore the significance of his contributions to the game as a punter? Did ANYBODY hit the coffin corner better than him? Did ANYBODY have a chronically higher hang time? Did ANYBODY have more influence as a punter for his team? I cringed everytime he came out to punt against the Steelers - you just knew it was going to be first and ten at the 3 yard line.
And as far as the "kickers don't belong in the Hall of Fame" excuse, well, that is completely cynical. If that were the case, then let the QB pouch punt it or drop kick it every time. The kickers are just as responsible for wins in the column as any running back or receiver is.
And as far as the "kickers don't belong in the Hall of Fame" excuse, well, that is completely cynical. If that were the case, then let the QB pouch punt it or drop kick it every time. The kickers are just as responsible for wins in the column as any running back or receiver is.
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written by AHab35, February 05, 2012 - 05:38 PM
written by AHab35, February 05, 2012 - 05:38 PM
I don't even know who votes in the hockey HOF. I can tell you in total honesty if I voted and I thought Barrasso belonged, I'd vote for him. I think most voters feel that way.
Of course, personal feelings cannot be entirely ruled out. Voters are human. But they are not as biased as you and others suggest. -- Bob Smizik
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Just to be clear here Bob I'm in agreement with you that in most cases players get in on merit regardless of their relationship with the media. I just think that in some of the more extreme cases, biases may come in to play.
I noticed over the years that most of the media, both local and national made little attempt to hide their disdain for Barrasso. And if he was as bad as indicated, I don't blame them. I'm as big a Barrasso fan as there was on this planet. If I were in the media and he treated me like total crap all the time, I would have second thoughts about pumping up his accomplishments.
I wish I could find the link but there was a Canadian hockey writer who had a column to this effect about two years ago. It was the year only Dino Cicerrelli got in to the HOF. He basically said Barrasso should have been in but was paying the price for being such an...not nice person...his entire career.
I would only add this about Barrasso. No question, he could be a complete jerk. But when he wanted to cooperate, he was the most insightful athlete I've ever covered in Pittsburgh. He could be positively brilliant in dissecting a game and/or his performance. -- Bob Smizik
Of course, personal feelings cannot be entirely ruled out. Voters are human. But they are not as biased as you and others suggest. -- Bob Smizik
---
Just to be clear here Bob I'm in agreement with you that in most cases players get in on merit regardless of their relationship with the media. I just think that in some of the more extreme cases, biases may come in to play.
I noticed over the years that most of the media, both local and national made little attempt to hide their disdain for Barrasso. And if he was as bad as indicated, I don't blame them. I'm as big a Barrasso fan as there was on this planet. If I were in the media and he treated me like total crap all the time, I would have second thoughts about pumping up his accomplishments.
I wish I could find the link but there was a Canadian hockey writer who had a column to this effect about two years ago. It was the year only Dino Cicerrelli got in to the HOF. He basically said Barrasso should have been in but was paying the price for being such an...not nice person...his entire career.
I would only add this about Barrasso. No question, he could be a complete jerk. But when he wanted to cooperate, he was the most insightful athlete I've ever covered in Pittsburgh. He could be positively brilliant in dissecting a game and/or his performance. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Curmudgeon, February 06, 2012 - 09:24 AM
written by Curmudgeon, February 06, 2012 - 09:24 AM
I have an idea for the NFL.
This sport is completely controlled and driven by TV so my idea is to eliminate the Pro Bowl and, instead, have a TV awards show on the Sunday before the Super Bowl to celebrate the end of the season.
In this production with a prominent host, the Pro Bowl team is announced and honored, the MVP, Rookie-of-the-Year and other trophies are awarded, the Hall of Fame inductees are honored, show the best highlights of the year, etc. Make it a big, flashy TV production to celebrate the end of the season. I think more people would watch that than the silly farce that the Pro Bowl has become. Plus, from players to coaches to fans to sponsors, who wouldn't want to be involved?
This sport is completely controlled and driven by TV so my idea is to eliminate the Pro Bowl and, instead, have a TV awards show on the Sunday before the Super Bowl to celebrate the end of the season.
In this production with a prominent host, the Pro Bowl team is announced and honored, the MVP, Rookie-of-the-Year and other trophies are awarded, the Hall of Fame inductees are honored, show the best highlights of the year, etc. Make it a big, flashy TV production to celebrate the end of the season. I think more people would watch that than the silly farce that the Pro Bowl has become. Plus, from players to coaches to fans to sponsors, who wouldn't want to be involved?
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I doubt you could offer specifics.
One of the biggest jerks toward the media when I was working was Dan Fouts, who is in the HOF. One of the all-time great guys, Jerome Bettis is not. -- Bob Smizik