Pass happy goes down yet again, scoring a whopping 17 points along the way, with "the greatest QB of all time" (not) at the helm.

Last time Brady won the Super Bowl? The last time he had a running game (and FB) to help him out. Like Eli has had in his two W's.

Good bye BA ball, and good riddance. Way to go Art II.

PS- And remember, this was the un-SB. The two teams that very well could have been facing each other, are both running teams.

Is it a coincidence that the Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since Spy Gate?

It was a great game. The Patriots have nothing of which to be ashamed. They were 2nd of 32. Can the haters take a rest for one night? -- Bob Smizik

"The notion that defense wins championships has been destroyed, at least for this era, how ever long it lasts."- BS
===================================================

There must have been some defense involved somewhere. The victorious team only scored 21 points. Hello???

And the great offense of the modern era (LOL) only scored 17 points. That is defense in my book.

Looks like we will need a OC that has won a Supe, knows passing and is proficient in the use of 'bubble' screen.....ooopppsss

written by SteelerMark, February 05, 2012 - 10:46 PM

Pass happy goes down yet again, scoring a whopping 17 points along the way, with "the greatest QB of all time" (not) at the helm.

Last time Brady won the Super Bowl? The last time he had a running game (and FB) to help him out. Like Eli has had in his two W's.

Good bye BA ball, and good riddance. Way to go Art II.

PS- And remember, this was the un-SB. The two teams that very well could have been facing each other, are both running teams.
___

The Giants threw 40 passes and ran 28 times. That means they passed 59% of the time and ran 41%. Somehow in the SteelerMark world that constitutes a running team winning the game???

I also counted at least 5 times they lined up with no RBs and one bubble screen.

Basically the Giants just won the Super Bowl using the EXACT offense the Steelers used this season. The only difference, the Giants have an offensive line that excels at blocking.

I didn't know what to make of Eli early in his career, but he has certainly proven himself as an elit crunch time performer.

His record of heroics and production in the 4th quarter is as good as it gets.

I have to admit it's nice to see the feeling of emptiness in those NE faces. What a great hard fought game.

Pitchers and catchers report when?

Let the record show that I personally wrote here after the wild card round that the G-men were a force to be reckoned with, and that their defense could carry them.

This was met with snickers from RogerRoger, Digo Manini (or whatever his monkier is), and other such luminaries.   The G-men then went on and DOMINATED the prolific NE attack and won the world championship.

Thank you. 

Maybe I should use multiple Id's on here like so many others do to get past the censors tonight.

So lets try this:

Great game tonight.

Manning looked very poised, and had a great 4th quarter drive.
Coughlin is a good coach, and also showed great poise this season not listening to his many critics.
New york did a great job overcoming the injuries they suffered in the game.

And since I know I cannot say anything about New England, their coach, and their quarterback without being deleted, I will just say that they too played a good game.

I am just beyond happy that New York won.

Lets see how long this post lasts...........

Boston and New York .... who cares .... I'll catch the highlights on Monday Sportscenter.

Bob says = "Since when is being AFC champ a sign of failure?"

Maybe the Pats were a great team, but they never really proved it. During the regular season they played 3 teams that ended up in the playoffs. They lost two of those games. The only win was against the mediocre Broncos.

In the playoffs they only had to beat 1 quality team and it took a miracle to do it.

They won the AFC. Congrats. But they sure didn't do it by beating quality teams.


They were not a great team. They were a very flawed team. Terrible defense and below-average running game. -- Bob Smizik

great game.
Not sure what game you watched, Bob but the Giants Defense was very good in this game and tremendous throughout the playoffs.

DOWN GOES BELICHEAT!!!

"The Giants threw 40 passes and ran 28 times. That means they passed 59% of the time and ran 41%. Somehow in the SteelerMark world that constitutes a running team winning the game???

I also counted at least 5 times they lined up with no RBs and one bubble screen.

Basically the Giants just won the Super Bowl using the EXACT offense the Steelers used this season. The only difference, the Giants have an offensive line that excels at blocking."- Ahab
====================================================

Lesson time (again):

1) The Giants use a FB. BA not, never, ever.
2) You did NOT see the Giants in bunch right or bunch left all night.
3) You did not see the Giants run the ball a substantial percentage of the time out of single back sets.
4) The better running team won the game. And remember, as I pointed out, this was the un-SB, with two running teams that could have easily been in this game knocked out in the conference championships.
5) Only a person that doesn't really know the difference would call the Giants O and the BA O similar.
6) You'll have to point out where I said the Giants were a "running team". I would say they are a team capable of balance, in large part due to the employment of a FB. Unlike BA, and unlike the Patriots.

Not a great game, no really big plays, but a good game. The AFC and NFC championship games were more exciting.

written by SteeelVa, February 05, 2012 - 11:08 PM
Let the record show that I personally wrote here after the wild card round that the G-men were a force to be reckoned with, and that their defense could carry them.

This was met with snickers from RogerRoger,

Um, 4th incarnation of Steelva, you again are wrong.

I snickered at you for saying you preferred Perry Fewell over Dick LeBeau.

I knew the Giants could be a force...........once you hit the playoffs, anything can happen.

Please be more honest in the future when assigning quotes/blame.
And yes I know Fewell helped win the SB this year.
But the scorecard remains LeBeau 2, Fewell 1.

Thanks.

I disagreed with the decision to intentionally allow the Giants to score a TD at the end of the game. Anyone remember Bettis in that same city? Didn't the Patriots notice that Tynes did not have an easy time with his first two FGs? Didn't they remember Billy Cundiff in the AFC title game? What about the holding penalty that changed the momentum in the 2nd quarter and might have backed the Giants back to the 15? Would you want Suisham kicking a win-or-lose FG in the Super Bowl for us even if it was only a 32 yarder, even if it was a 20 yarder? I would have kept playing defense, anything can happen.

So basically SteelerMark the difference was the use of a fullback. Otherwise, the Giants strategically did the same thing the Steelers did all year.

Argue the semantics all you want. Just like you argue who was ALMOST or SHOULD HAVE BEEN in the Super Bowl. At the end of the day, the difference between what the Giants did and what the Steelers did came down primarily to offensive line execution. No matter how much you deny it.

In any event, let's not gripe all night. I'm sure we're both happy that New England lost.

OK the Pats did not get blown out as I predicted, but as I predicted the hottest team in the NFL won.

I also pointed out that at this point of their careers Eli Manning is better than Tom Brady.

Most importantly the Steelers lead in Super Bowl wins is safe for another year.

PS: With Woodall Pitt is looking good again for the NCAA tournament!

Well in the end I knew that the Giants were going to win, Bellichik took the risk of letting them score in hopes that Brady could come back and win it. But of course he couldn't not against that defense.

but I knew from the third inning when Bradshaw made that putt into the basket from center field, I knew then that the Giants had it made.

I was a little sad to see the Patriots lose in that this season was dedicated to Mrs. Kraft who had died last year.

And I couldn't help being sad that the Steelers weren't winning this one. I am sure that they would have won, just like the last time they played the Giants in the championship and put Y.A. Tittle's career on the path to retirement.

Yahoo! Brady was sharp on two series. Defense still matters. I simply don't understand allowing anyone to score..ever. Too many missed snaps, fumbles ( can you ever forget the bus and Ben's tackle...they may have scored anyway but you never give up points...never...could have missed or blocked a chip shot...never. I guess Billy belie cheat isn't so great without cheating nor is T Brady so good without illegal help. As many have noted theirn3 SBs deserve an asterisk. Good game, overall well officiated...eat my words about the refs being the MVP.

The long NFL season is over -- capped by a game for the ages.

Wait a second... a game for the ages? Are you kidding me? The first half was as poorly played and boring as they come. No clutch plays, no excitement, no nothing. I give you that the second half was better and that the last 4 minutes thrilling, but to give this SB was not a memorable game by any stretch of the imagination.

Manning and Brady are both far superior to Ben and they have an offensive line which will make it tough for the Steelers to join this company. Our management team has turned their heads to the offensive line for three years and this negligence will shorten Ben's career.
And, you guys that think that you can win with running the ball are nuts. the game has changed so get current. Yes, we should have a fullback like Hynoski but our new OC needs to throw, throw, throw. Get Haley NOW!!!!

Agree this was a good game but not a game for the ages...the San Francisco vs Saints game was the best playoff game...the best defense head to head in the playoffs won complemented by an offense with a strong running game and very strong passing game, with smart, turnover free qb play, take note MT and BB. The best team won...

I was dead wrong on my prediction for the game and I'm man enough to admit it.

Now, I want all the naysayers who claimed the Steelers had no chance of beating NE in the play-offs to man up and admit how idiotic their blog posts were.

I couldn't believe how many stupid posts their were on this blog after the humiliating defeat of the Steelers, due to our ill-conceived defense, at the hands of the inept Denver Broncos. So many were saying it was pretty much a blessing because we would have been clobbered by the almighty Patriots.

I'm eating crow right now and it doesn't taste good. However, I was never so stupid to say the Steelers did not have a chance at beating NE at Gillette Stadium. After watching NE tonight, anyone can beat NE...their offensive line sucks worse than the Steelers, their DBs are pathetic, and their D-line is worse than the Steelers on their worst day.

The Pats and Giants both played some pretty darn good defense today and for that matter during the entire playoffs so how a team is playing at the end of the year means a heck of a lot more than their ranking for the year. I'm glad the Giants won. I'm not a big Madonna fan but she put on one heck of an outstanding show. My only complaint is that there is entirely too much talk by everyone about legacy and eliteness. All of that will work itself out over time.

"Manning and Brady are both far superior to Ben..."

That is the absolute stupidest comment I've ever read on this blog.

"Manning and Brady are both far superior to Ben"

Have to agree this might be the most absurd comment I've seen in quite some time.

What makes Eli far superior to Ben? Was it his brilliant time management in the second half tonight? No doubt he plays great in big games but last time I checked he has as many SB wins as Ben. If you want to make a statement make it something like "Manning and Brady both have superior offensive lines than that of Ben".

Amazing how much easier a QB's job gets when he has time to throw. Notice that TD that Brady threw in the first half when the Giants only rushed 3? I didn't see either of them scramble out of trouble or make throws with defenders hanging all over them.

Bob,

Please proofread before you post!! Geez!! The score was 21-17, not 21-7..Not the first time you have made mistakes.



I do proofread before I post. I make mistakes. But thanks for pointing it out. -- Bob Smizik

NE racks up wins year after year by playing in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL (Jets, Bills and Dolphins). That's 6 gimmes per year. Coach, QB and teams way over-rated.Thank goodness that missed pass interfernce call did not cost G-men the game. Coach B on his way to becoming coach with most losses in SB history. Good coach not a great coach.

When this blog said that this Super Bowl "destroyed the notion that defense wins championships," I wanted to ask these questions:
1) with two elite QBs why was the score only 21-17?
2) why was the winning team the team that scored on defense (safety)?
3) why was the winning team the team that got an interception?
And why did the team that allowed the touchdown counting on its offense, the team that lost?

This game proved that defense is what wins the game.

And how about the halftime show? Madonna was really good, and I hope that all the people who said she's washed up take it back. I had expected more pre-recorded vocals, but it looked like a lot of it was live. Nonetheless, the choreography was amazing, the costume changes and the huge cast of dancers and backing vocalists all seemed to function flawlessly. For being over 50, Madonna was in great shape and able to dance and sing without being exhausted.

Statistically, I guessnDrew Bree's was the best QB or maybe Aaron Rodgers. Seems like Eli is willing to take a sack (or 6 against San Fran). Ben will scramble and risk ball securitynrathernthan live to play again. Still a heck of a great QB with 2SB rings...same as Manning. The Steelers desperately need to improve their line...two athletes and three slobs and an ineffective offensive game plan equal injured QB forced to do too much on his own. This pattern has to change...or expect more injuries to BB . Congrats to the Giants and thanks for beating the Cheatriots!!!

40/28- Giants
39/13- GB
39/18- Saints
30/20- Steelers
34/23- Giants

For those interested (including Steeler Mark), these are the pass/run ratios of the last 5 Super Bowl Winners in the SB....yes good thing the Steelers want to get back to the old fashion run game! This is an QB driven league and the Steelers have an elite one...The Steelers issue is not the emphasis they put on the pass, it is the pass blocking!

Good thing that O'Brien already locked up the PSU job. If he lived in Pittsburgh they would be calling for him and the DC to be fired and complaining that Belichick can do nothing more than speak using big words and short statements.

The Patriots, by the way, played like 5 or 6 teams that finished 8-8. Had they lost those games, people would be talking about what a tough schedule they played.

The whole "they beat nobody with a winning record" argument holds no water. They beat the teams on their schedule and earned the #1 seed.

That said, my God did their receivers gag in the last two drives. Three or four drops. But then again, the Giants fumbled two or three times and were lucky enough to recover all of them.

It's a funny game, this NFL. A game of inches.

I don't really want ot hear anything about how Eli Manning won this game with an exceptional performance, though. He was adequate and Manningham made a great catch for him. That defense won the Super Bowl. Again.

In New York, these lights will inspire you...these streets will make you feel brand new!

*t's kinda hard to bang on Belichick for time management errors with his proven track record, but not letting the Giants score on 1st down was a huge mistake. It would have given the Patriots a few seconds more and an additional timeout.

As to whether or not they should have let them score it is an absolute no-brainer. Sure there is the rare fumble (Bettis)or botched snap on the kick, but percentage wise the Patriots have a much better chance of winning by getting the ball with over a minute left and 2 timeouts than they do by letting the Giants center the ball and basically kick an extra point with almost no time left. It's not even close. They just waited a play too long.

Also to be dismissed -- and Steelers fans clamoring for the return of the 4-yards-and-a-divot of-artificial-turf offense should take note -- is the relative importance of the running game.

But this Super Bowl also did prove the importance of a strong running game. Yes, Welker shouldn't have dropped that end of game pass. Had he caught it the Patriots would've won. However, if the Patriots would've ran the ball there instead of passing it (and watching the clock stop on an incomplete pass), that would've taken the clock down to 3 minutes. And had they gotten a first down on the ground there, that would've all but sealed the game for them.

So the Patriots lack of a running game to run out the clock there actually was a big reason why they didn't win the Super Bowl

*t appears there's no such thing as pass interference, defensive holding, unnecessary roughness, or facemask penalties during a Super Bowl.

It was unbelievable what the refs were letting the Patriots DBs get away with. The only penalties the refs were flagging were the no-brainer 12 men on the field (it was amazing how many times it was called) or the obvious off-sides.

Belichick's mistake was in not letting Bradshaw run it in from the 18 with 2 minutes to go. Football is the lone sport where strategically it often does make sense to wave in the go-ahead points.

In fact, Belichick probably should've saved the challenge and let the Giants go in from the 50 with 3:39 left. Is it possible that Dick LeBeau, in Super Bowl 43, fearing his fading D wouldn't stop the Cards, intentionally called extreme risk-reward defense with 2:50 to play, a bunch of guys on the line and no deep safety, intended to produce either a crushing sack/INT or a Cardinals touchdown that would come quickly enough for the Steelers to respond?

I forgot to mention Brady's stupid intentional grounding pass from the end-zone...they did flag that.

"The notion that defense wins championships has been destroyed"

Boo. That line could have been written well before this game was played given the two teams involved and the statistics that you site. The fact is that the two teams that lost in the championship games were built on defense and they lost because of special teams.

That is the real argument against Bob's way of thinking here. To try to say that this game was won by defense is not really defensible. The difference in this game was NE receivers dropping catch-able passes. Welker at the 20 being the obvious one, but also Hernandez and I think there were a few others, as well.

@genius - you're kind of you know what you if you do in that situation, you know what if you don't. The odds of winning are miniscule, at best, at whatever option you choose. But Bill Cowher always chose the situation that you did. You're in the lead, they have to score to beat you. It's extremely likely they make that FG to make you, but there's always a chance at a fumble, bad snap, or hooked kick on the FG (especially given the pressure of the game). I think Bill Cowher would've most definitely made the Giants beat him instead of willingly giving them the lead at the end of the game.

OTOH, Cowher never had a QB like Brady. (Yeah, he had Ben for three years, but that was at the beginning of Ben's career and well before his prime).

It's a tough call either way.

@Dobreshunka - if the Steelers were healthy, they would've had a good chance of beating the Patriots.

The Steelers were a M*A*S*H unit after the Broncos game. That unit would've been hard pressed to keep up with the Patriots in New England.

"Basically the Giants just won the Super Bowl using the EXACT offense the Steelers used this season. The only difference, the Giants have an offensive line that excels at blocking."- Ahab


The difference between the teams is that the Giants were healthy at the end of the year and took off. The Steelers were inured at the end and limped out of the playoffs. Timing really is everything.

Patriots done!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beautiful.....

SteelVA - If you were a true Steeler fan, you'd spend your time tonight feeling great that Steeler history was preserved.
Instead....You spend your time patting yourself on your rear end.
By the way....The name is Bazzini.....Daquido Bazzini.
Get it right......

Bob,

I do think this loss is a repudiation of the Patriots, Belichick and Brady. Look at it this way: if you only look at what they've done post-Spygate, people would be saying that Brady just can't win the big one. Without their cheating, it is entirely possible that the Patriots don't get to at least 1 or 2 of those SBs and considering how close all three games were, they probably don't win the one or ones they get to. Cheating got them the wins. Without it, they just can't get it done.

By the way, do you think the one person in New York that isn't happy about the Giants winning is Rex Ryan? All he can do is talk about winning championships while Tom Coughlin actually wins them in the same city!

Bob - I would look at this differently. Yes, the Giants were the 27th ranked defense during the regular season, but that's what contributed to their finishing 9-7. When their defense finally got healthy and started playing well, it was what propelled them to the championship. Needing to win their last 2 games to even get in the playoffs, they held the Jets and Cowboys to 14 points each, then shut out Falcons in Atlanta (Atlanta got 2 points on a safety); held the offensive juggernaut Packers to 20 in Green Bay (and anyone who watched knows that the 2 GB touchdowns were courtesy of horrendous calls by the ref - Bill Leavy - that extended those drives when they should have ended); held San Francisco to 17 (the same SF team that scored, then just held the mighty Patriots to 17. If you're keeping score, that's 13.6 points per game in 6 straight playoff or playoff-type elimination games? That's elite level defense. Yes they didn't play that well the whole season, but if they hadn't played at that level in their last 6 games, they're not celebrating tonight.

As for the people on here saying the Giants ran the same offense tonight that the Steelers do, I can only ask, what game were you watching? Did you not see the fullback opening holes (a few of which Bradshaw ignored) for Bradshaw and Jacobs and blocking on play action passes? Did you ever see a 4 or 5 WR shotgun set on 3rd and 2? For that matter, did you ever see more than 3 wide receivers on the field at any time for the Giants? Did you not see the running backs chip blocking the defensive ends before going out on their routes (instead of letting those ends go one-on-one against the slower OT's all game)? Did you not see the 11 completions (out of 30) to tight ends and backs? Did you ever see a bunch WR set out of a shotgun formation? The only thing that looked like the Steelers offense were all those red zone FGs. (I know - here's another example of a fan who thinks he can "call plays" better than Arians did, as some of the PG writers are so fond of saying. That condecending statement - which I've seen numerous times in the PG since Arians was fired - ignores the reality. Fans (and obviously ownership) weren't dissatisfied because they thought they could call plays better, they were dissatisfied because they see other OC's every week who seemed to be doing a better job of game planning and calling plays than he was. Were we all right or completely off base? Only time will tell - both here and in Indianapolis.

Speaking of OC's, the Super Bowl is over. I guess we'll find out shortly if the Steelers really were waiting to interview one of the Giants or Patriots assistants for the OC job.

I didn’t think a single word Madonna uttered was live.

Certainly NBC stayed wide with their shots so we couldn't tell.

At least she wore black and gold.

Bob,

Good write up, but I disagree with your overreach in stating that the era of pass and catch is upon us?

It's always been so going back to at least as far as Willie Joe Namath and his Jets in the late 60's. However, it's only one way to win. For surely, teams can still win with great defense or a great running game. Just because none exists in the NFL at present is no reason to eschew defense and a ground game.

Let's recall the disaster wreaked upon the Steeler nation when we briefly allowed Tommy Gun Maddox back in 2003 to go wild with a passing game?

The Steelers compiled great passing stats that year and had not much to show for it in the win-loss column.

I am happy the Giants won but that was one of the worse played football games in any era. Dropped passes, poor coaching and not much atmosphere.

The passing was done 5 yards at a clip and the play calling was average. If Kevin Gilbride is a candidate for OC in the Steelers they should say no.

The longest deep ball was the one where Brady was penalized. Dink and dunk in the Super Bowl, cmon man!

Lastly, the officiating was excellent, a few borderline things weren't called but they didn't effect the outcome. They were of course the best officials available and it showed.

Both teams should fire their offensive and defensive coordinators. Neither team scored enough touchdowns while both teams gave up too many touchdowns.

All a dominant running game does is allow the other team to stay in the game until the end.

1) I think Eli has certainly proved himself to be among the top QBs in the game. BUt I find it curious how whenever Ben won, it's the defense according to national followers of the NFL, but when Eli wins, he is so good, he is back to back MVP despte the fact NYG defensive line could make a case for being joint MVP in their last two SB wins?
2) The Giants have been a lot more clutch than the Steelers in big games in the post 70s era. They are 4-1 in SBs and the one loss came in a game they were outmatched talentwise anyway to one of the best SB defenses of all time (the 2000 Ravens). Giants WERE UNDERDOGS IN THEIR LAST 4 SBs!!!! Steelers have rarely won a playoff game in which they were underdogs. I am a huge Steelers fan, but this is getting a little annoying. This is why I pronounce the win against INdy in 2005 as one of the finest Steelers playoff wins of all time.
3) ELI WINNING a 2nd SB IS GREAT news for the Steelers. You don't think Ben is stewing out there that Eli has matched him SB win wise and has oneupped him by getting two MVPs? If this does not motivate Ben, nothing else will. And here is another tip to Ben: Your talent doesn't matter. Eli is less banged up and will have a longer career. Pay heed to what Rooney says and learn to manage your injuries better. Ben is way too valuable to be underachieving in his prime years. Just look at Brady. Who would have thought at one time, his best SB days were over 7 years ago? Ben, the time is now to get a 3rd SB.
4) People were talking about defense not being as important if two low ranked D's can make it to the SB. People forget that ranking doesn't matter. What I saw was the Giants offense scoring only one TD in the first half despite great field position and NE could score only 17 points all game.
5) Luck will even out. Pats were barely winning playoff games and somehow every single Pats player were playing their best games in those early 2000s Pats playoff team. Those were pure team efforts. Now when a few errors take place, Pats are human and lose close games.
6) LeBeau gets so much praise. But what about the Giants defensive coaching by two different coaches in their last 2 SB wins? Most of their talent is on that DL and yet other teams can't figure out how to attack the Giants weakness in those SBs. COmpare how the Giants D played compared to our D in the last SB.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...super-bowl

Harrison insults Patriots after Super Bowl
February, 6, 2012
By Jamison Hensley

INDIANAPOLIS -- James Harrison has been called the dirtiest player in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker added another title Sunday night: rudest player in the league.

As soon as the New England Patriots fell short in a 21-17 loss in the Super Bowl, Harrison posted on Twitter: "Told you, cheaters never win!!!!!!!!!"

Not sure if you could tell by the amount of explanation points, but Harrison is extremely happy by the Patriots' misery. Of course, he's bringing up "Spygate," the 2007 incident where the Patriots were caught videotaping the New York Jets defensive coaches' signals.

Steelers safety Ryan Clark piled on with this on Twitter: "0-2 [in Super Bowls] post spy gate! Just saying!!"

This is just poor timing by Harrison and Clark. It's also poor taste. Veteran players should have more class than this. They should be showing younger players how to act as professionals and not like teenagers.

Three minutes later, after receiving some criticism, Harrison followed it with another post on Twitter: "Lol, I'm sorry I couldn't help it!!!" He finished up the night with this: "Come on people love or hate me more!"

Harrison has a long reputation for cheap shots on the field, many of which can defended by his old-school mentality of playing football. But there is no defending this cheap shot. It was a low blow, and Harrison should know better.

ESPN needs send this guy back to the Baltimore Sun...

A few thoughts:

--There are few things more satisfying in life than watching a Belecheat press conference after losing the Super Bowl. He doesn't even bother to try to conceal his contempt for the rest of the human race. Nice job, there, "coach".

--The Ref's did all they could do to give the game to the Pats. There were two blatant pass interference calls and a flagrant hold on a Pat's touchdown.

--While this was a close game, it wasn't an exciting game until the end.

--Bob, please tell Coughlin that the running game is dead--his insistance on sticking with it is the only reason this game was close. The Pat's couldn't legally cover the Giants wideouts.

-- and, finally,

Some will view this as a repudiation of the Patriots, Brady and coach Bill Belichick. It was nothing of the kind

HA! Spygate is a stain that won't wash out.

Today is a good day.

another SB malfunction

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoff...ftime-show

This proves to me that Brady and Belichick are great but not the greatest.

I hope this puts to rest how great Brady is. Eli is better than him and it isn't that close. Being a great QB isn't about putting up numbers. Brady can put up numbers. It is about putting your team on your back and carrying them to victory when you are the chance to win it. Brady has won many times, but he never carried his team. Eli carries his team and wins games. If I needed to win a game i would take Eli everytime and twice on sundays.


If you are saying Manning is better than Brady, that's a fair point. If you are saying Brady is no good, that's ridiculous. -- Bob Smizik

Bob, you have never been so wrong ... please note:

1) the 2 best running teams barely missed the Super Bowl by the slimmest of margins

2) check the defensive stats of both the Giants and Pats over the past 2 months ... you will note that their winning streaks coincided when they strated playing much better defense .... which leads to ..

3) this game was a defensive struggle where THE ULTIMATE ARM (and one of the best of all times -- your words) did not produce a point over the last quarter and a half

Shame on you for such subjective journalism. You should have rightly pointed out that both of these teams became a consistent winner late in the season and playoffs when their defenses picked up




If you are looking for objective journalism, check the AP wire. This is opinionated (subjective) journalism. I've never said I'm always right.

I'm still waiting for a list of those multiple lies you charged me with last week. --- Bob Smizik

I welcome, even enjoy, discussing my opinions. When the reader gets personal, as you frequently do, I consider that over the top. Take it or leave it. --- Bob Smizik

As others have already posted. You gotta love the way the Giants blocked. Have a good QB? Keep him upright with nobody in his face mask.
Get some O-lineman in camp...That part of our offense needs more attention.
Go PITT!

In the 1990/91 NFC Championship game the Giants prevented the 49ers and Joe Montana from returning to the Super Bowl for the 3rd straight year for a very possible 3 peat in SB wins and Joe Montana winning his 5th SB ring. The 49ers had a chance to win 5 SB in 10 years with a 3 in a row run. Thanks to the Giants the Steelers 4 in 6 years and two in a row twice was still the standard.
In 2007/08 SB the Giants prevented Tom Brady and Bill Belichick from tying Bradshaw and Noll as a QB Coach duo with 4 SB wins and a 4-0 SB record and Beleichick from tying Noll as the only head coach with 4 SB wins. They also prevented NE undefeated season which we would have never heard the end of.
In the 2011-11 Divisional playoff game the Giants prevented the GB Packers from returning to another SB in a dome which could have easily turned in to back to back wins for the Packers and therefore setting up a very possible three peat.
The following week in the NFC Championship the Giants prevented the 49ers from returning to the SB and having a chance at tying the Steelers with 6 Lombardi trophies.
No in this SB the Giants have again prevented Belichick and Brady form winning 4 SBs.

Steelers fans owe the New York Giants a lot of love and respect.

It makes the haters realize and us appreciate just how difficult winning 4 SBs in 6 years and back to back SBs twice really was to achieve as well as winning 6 overall.

As well it shows you just how tough it was for both Joe Montana and Bradshaw/Noll to be 4-0 in SBs when Belichick/Brady are now 3-2

If it's true that we have entered the era of the "pass" in the NFL, then the Steelers are certainly sitting in the "catbird's seat". With a franchise QB, and a corp of receivers that any NFL team would like to have, it appears that the Steelers are among the "elite" teams in the NFL.

Now if they can somehow strengthen the O-line, through the draft, free agency, or trade, they will be well on their way to future Super Bowl appearances.

I'm not so sure that I would give up on defense altogether yet. I think there are ways to defend against the pass happy offenses of the current day NFL, it just will take a DC with some fresh, unique concepts. I think somewhere out there is a DC who will come up with those new defenses, and along with it he may change the face of the game.

It will be interesting to see if offense rules for the next decade, or if some bright DC can counter it with new ideas.

The long NFL season is over -- capped by a game for the ages.

Wait a second... a game for the ages? Are you kidding me? The first half was as poorly played and boring as they come. No clutch plays, no excitement, no nothing. I give you that the second half was better and that the last 4 minutes thrilling, but to give this SB was not a memorable game by any stretch of the imagination.

Thank goodness. I completely agree. Besides the game coming down to a hail mary, it was a complete snooze. No big plays on either side of the ball. Eli Manning got the MVP even though I thought he didn't play that good of a game.

It was the modern small ball. Frequent, short passes. No running games. Because of both, no big plays by defenses. All in all, dull football.

Roger Goodell needs to watch this trend closely. I know they eliminated the DBs' ability to bump receivers in order to promote offense, but what we're getting isn't offense. And it isn't exciting. Bringing back the chuck would get rid of the spread offense and hopefully give us some better Super Bowls.

written by pens22, February 06, 2012 - 12:14 AM
40/28- Giants
39/13- GB
39/18- Saints
30/20- Steelers
34/23- Giants

For those interested (including Steeler Mark), these are the pass/run ratios of the last 5 Super Bowl Winners in the SB....yes good thing the Steelers want to get back to the old fashion run game! This is an QB driven league and the Steelers have an elite one...The Steelers issue is not the emphasis they put on the pass, it is the pass blocking!


Great post if the Steelers had a good offensive line they would have been in this game

1) Game of Ages? Please. It was a good game between two sub-par teams who survived a watered down seasoned because of injuries.

2) Eli is now on the same level with Ben with 2 Super Bowl wins. Still has to make one more to keep pace, though. And MVP? Yeah, by default.


3) Belichek and Brady are not the best tandem ever in NFL. Stop saying it. Sure, it's nice to go to 5 Super Bowls. but lose 2? Yeah, you are no genuis. Perhaps they needed to cheat a little more this year?

4) I am SHOCKED SHOCKED! No mention on Bruce Arians. I thought for sure that the blog author would somehow work in that the Giants won because Bruce Arians was fired by the Steelers, and because Kevin Gilbride was once fired (or did he retire, too??) it motivated them? Come on! you are slipping!

Some thoughts on the big game and some comments here on the blog this morning...

First...thank you pens22 for the running/throwing stats of the recent SB winners....I don't think it is a coincidence that ALL winners in the past five or six years threw the ball A LOT more than they ran the ball.....including the Giants last night.

All you proponents of the run game GET REAL....today's NFL is a game of elite, highly proficient QB's winning the game by making great throws to receivers making great catches. Last night's Giants win is just another example of that.

The Steelers themselves were the perfect example of a great QB winning the game with a great throw to a receiver who made a great catch to cap a great 4th quarter drive in SB 43.

So with the strength of the Steelers being their franchise QB and two or three pro bowl receivers....you want them to convert to a run oriented offense??? Yeah....makes sense to me....

The other aspect about offense that last night's game also DID prove is that there is still room to run a ball control offense by primarily throwing the ball. Both offenses exemplified that aspect last night. I just heard Herm Edwards point out on Mike and Mike this AM that the game really featured only NINE possessions by both teams. If you recall....the Steelers ran a ball control throwing offense to perfection this year beating the Pats much in the same way the Giants did last night.

As several posters already pointed out on this thread....the major difference between the Giants offense and the Steelers offense is a decent (not great) PASS BLOCKING OL. Eli wouldn't fare any better....and probably not as well as.....BR playing behing the Steelers OL. Nor would Tom Brady....

And speaking of Brady....the guy played pretty well overall last night but he made two critical mistakes that cost the Pats the game.....throwing the pass that led to the safety call....and throwing the INT on FIRST DOWN forcing a play that wasn't there.....if BR makes those same mistakes...he is burned in effigy here this mornng by many of his genius critics.

Brady is a HOF QB....but again, he would not fare as well here in Pittsburgh as BR playing behind the Steelers OL.....and as good as Brady is...his playoff performances the past three years or so have been average....at best.

Yes..
the NFL has turned into a passing league...
which concerns me regarding Rooney comments as well as Joe Greene!!
Bottom line is game planning and strategy to win. One size doesn't fit all!!

I think New England lost because they didn't have CB's!!!

ESPN needs send this guy back to the Baltimore Sun...

He's absolutely correct. Clark and Harrison sound like whiny fans making excuses for their own failures.

how difficult winning 4 SBs in 6 years and back to back SBs twice really was to achieve as well as winning 6 overall.

Don't forget NE's 3 SBs in 4 years in an age where teams turnover yearly. That may be a hard one to top.


As impressive as the 4 in 6 years were for the Steelers, that team had, arguable, the finest collection of HoFers on one team ever and they basically had no chance to change teams.

The Steerls of the 70s were "stuck" with all those All Pros and HOFers.

If you are saying Manning is better than Brady, that's a fair point. If you are saying Brady is no good, that's ridiculous. -- Bob Smizik


Brady is good, but what I am saying is he isn't this god that people portray him as. He does not belong in the conversation of the best QB's right now or of all-time. He is a HOF'er and a 1st ballot one at that. He no longer can be in the conversation of the best QB's.



Brady did not play up to his standards in his final two playoff games. But he threw for over 5,000 yards this season, 39 TDs and a passer rating over 100. Got his team to the SB with no running game. I'm not quite ready to dismiss him. -- Bob Smizik

Great game. Use of a Fullback, what a concept. Pitt guy blocked, caught passes, maybe new OC will find one instead of saying Johnson is a good blocking TE. Sign Mclain!

Pats tr,y to srip ball on every play, steelers need to do same.

Eli more rings than brother!

Pats 12 men, bad challenge, foorced Int. no longer the unbeatable team. Glad they did not win. No Brady spiking the ball after TD! Sorry find that act classless. He should act like he has been there.


Hear Goodell is pushing Justin Beiber for next year show. Trying to expand football to younger female audience.

Good game, not great, but it held your attention to the very end. In the 80's and 90's the SB was always a blow-out but other than the Bucs/Raiders SB, the past 11 years have been very good games.

I thought both teams were tight in the first half and they both played it close to the vest, dinking and dunking the ball rather than taking shots down the field. Eli chose to throw underneath, taking 8 yards on 3rd and 12. Had the Giants been more aggressive in the first half when they had both lines of scrimmage they might have won by 2 TD's.

NBC made a mistake when they said the last safety in a SB was when Bruce Smith sacked Hostetler in SB 25. How could they forget SB 43 when Hartwig was called for holding in the endzone? That call turned the game in the Cardinals favor and would have been talked about forever in Pittsburgh had it not been for Ben's late game heroics. NBC and Al Michaels did that game.

In the past couple of days we've been treated to a few posters directing to links of stories that downplay the whole Spygate thing. Jimmy Johnson and Cowher all but admitted they've done similar (as did most if not all NFL teams). The issue was timing, with the Pats getting caught after a memo went out from Goodell to stop the videotaping practice. Which doesn't mean that there aren't still humans stealing signs even today throughout the league.

Spygate had nothing to do with Welker dropping a pass that would've wrapped up the game for the Pats.

In the end it was one perfect pass and catch that put the Giants in position to win. Eli and Manningham did what Brady and Welker couldn't. That simple.

Perhaps the most brilliant call of the day was Coughlin pulling out a play from Buddy Ryan's playbook called "Polish Goal Line" on the penultimate play. When the opponent is running out of time, put 12 men on the field. Take the relatively harmless penalty while running precious seconds off the clock. Devious. The refs have the latitude to put time back on the clock, but they often don't. Shows Coughlin thought of everything. I'll leave it to you as to whether that's cheating.

-Rooting for the Giants so the end of the game felt like so many Steelers games this year. A Hail Mary throw away from losing, field goals instead of TDs, a running game that was not quite enough to lock it up.......there are no great teams in the NFL and with salary caps probably none on the horizon. (Steelers kept their players in the 70s due to the lack of liberal free agency and the 49ers bought their way to the top pre cap days.)

-Horray for Henry Hinoski. Leaves Pitt when Graham comes in...gets hurt in offseason and not drafted...spurns Mike Tomlin...and now has a Super Bowl ring. Sure beats a Big East title. Made some good plays, the big one being the fumble recovery!

-E. Manning and Ben now have 4 of the 8 SB wins since they were drafted in 2004. QBs aren't totally measured by SBs (the Dans Marino and Fouts are happy about that) but it is some measure. Phil Rivers still waits. Eli has 2 MVPs but I don't think he was demonstably MVP and Ben coulda won MVP in SB 43.

-Looks like Cowher has a longer wait in NY. Unless Couglin walks away on top.

The bottom line is pretty simple - in the modern NFL, you need a great quarterback to win the Super Bowl.

The last nine Super Bowls prove this. Tampa Bay and Baltimore as examples you can win with an average QB and strong run game are getting farther and farther in the rear view mirror. And I notice the stats the run game proponents are using are getting more and more esoteric.

Hey guys, don't get mad at me, get mad at reality.

I'll leave it to you as to whether that's cheating.

Naw. It's breaking the rules, they were caught and assessed a penalty.

Clark and Harrison are probably only echoing what the rest of the league thinks. That being said I don't agree with them saying it.

Steelers need athletic offense lineman that can move. Also a defense line that can generate pressure QB;s would be nice. The Harrison loop to the QB isn't as effective as it was.

Maybe a little Pittsburgh paranoia here. Granted Bradshaw is not regarded like Montana. Still everybody talked of Brady matching Montana with 4 wins and seldom mentioned Bradshaw. Belichek was being annointed the greatest coach ever if he won four SBs but seldom did you hear Noll's name mentioned with him. More comparisons linked Belicheat to Walsh

Game for the ages? Just because a game comes down to a hail mary does not make it a "game for the ages." That was a rather boring game for the majority despite being close. Put it this way, the key play of the game was a defense allowing the opposing team to score. Right, for the ages. The Nicks catch was great, but nothing you don't see every week in the NFL and certainly nowhere near Big Ben/Santonio in Tampa.

Useless trivia: 21-17 sounds a typical football score but they got there in odd ways and the winning team had a safety and missed(failed) extra point.

Super Bowl X was also a 21-17 game where the winning Steelers also had a safety (Reggie Harrison blocking the punt in the end zone) and a missed extra point in getting to 21 points.

i'm not of those who criticize pat coaching for giving up the t.d. in order to save time. on the contrary, i agree they had to do it, but they had to do it earlier, before they lost nearly 2 minutes of time and one of their t.o.s once giants get to the pat 20, the pats must let them score the t.d. that way there would have been plenty of time for brady plus two t.o.s. would have been three if pats don't challenge the manninham catch. a very bad decision. needing a t.d. to win and with brady and around 2 minutes with 3 t.o.s, who doubts that brady would have engineered a winning t.d. i was shocked at the half assed way belichick played it.

Steelers have rarely won a playoff game in which they were underdogs. I am a huge Steelers fan, but this is getting a little annoying.

What's annoying is how spoiled some Steelers fans act. The Steelers have been favored more times than not because the quality of play during the regular season made them favored in the playoffs. And they have been favored in 6 of the 8 SB's. So you're complaining that the Steelers lose the SB when they are underdogs and win it when they are favored? Talk about inventing new things to complain about.

The Giants were fortunate to make the playoffs at 9-7. In 2009 the Steelers went 9-7 but missed the playoffs and everyone called it a bad year. Bottom line, Big Ben and the Steelers have made it to the SB 3 times in the past 7 years and won 2 of them. Find me a single coach, player or fan of any team out there who wouldn't sign up for that today.

...

but seldom did you hear Noll's name mentioned with him. More comparisons linked Belicheat to Walsh

Maybe that's because Noll didn't coach much during a game. He just sent the guys out there to play, and watched them.

The Steelers won because they were ahead of the league on scouting at the time, and ahead of the league on using steroids, which weren't against the rules then, just against common sense.

Do you remember Noll's teams for great comeback victories?

Do you remember Noll's teams for patching together cast-offs from other teams?

Do you remember the Rooneys kept Noll around for the last TEN YEARS, where he was maybe 2 games over .500?

If it hadn't been for BLESTO, it would probably have been Chuck Who?

Lots of dumb decisions on Belichick's part. He certainly seems much less the "annointed genius" of old these days.

written by buccs1960, February 06, 2012 - 08:26 AM
Clark and Harrison are probably only echoing what the rest of the league thinks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/shannonsharpe

No spygate no superbowl win Giants win again.

*t looks like Giselle didn't pray long or hard enough for Tom. Why are stories like that even covered during the Superbowl? It has absolutely nothing to do with football. Who cares?? That's the problem with the NFL. Congrats to the NY Giants. Eli is a class act. Younger players could learn a lot by watching how he conducts himself on and off the field.

Good for the Giants. I don't like to see the NFC win the Super Bowl, but who in their right mind is going to root for the Pats? Of a large side note....great job Henry Hynoski! You had a good career at Pitt,worked hard, and succeeded at the risk of being drafted as a junior. Hail to Pitt. A good sports story.

For the posters who are dogging Tom Brady...
Be real with yourselves. He didn't have the greatest of games, but he put his team in position to win the Super Bowl. There were a ton of dropped balls by his receivers, especially late in the game..They were 1 first down from potentially changing the outcome.

Tom Brady is one of the best QB's in the game, and of all time. For anyone to say his is not an elite QB, especially right now is using their Patriot hatred as bias. Imagine if any of us were judged on one days worth of work...

And, how about what Chris Collingsworth said before the game started that if N.E. won, then Brady & Belichec would be the greatest QB & coach in S.B. history. He ever hear of Bradshaw & Noll?



Brady is a vastly superior QB to Bradshaw. -- Bob Smizik

Yes the offenses were tilted to the pass vs. the run last night as has become the trend for years in the NFL. But I also saw a lot of play action passes that were set up by the threat of the run. The Giants in particular did get off some good rushing plays and that set up the play action game.

The point is that the Steelers don't have to go back to running the ball 65% of the time they just have to be better at it when they do run the ball. Yes that takes O linemen but it probably also takes a legitimate fullback and a game play that mixes the run and short catch and run passes set up by play action with the occasional play action bomb thrown in there to keep defenses honest. That is what I saw from both SB teams last night.

Ottawa Dave

While I agree ... a really great game ... and not so great to be exaggeratedly called "a game for the ages." Beyond the game, good in several dimensions ... commercials Unot banner, but not bad), halftime (family friendly other than the silly "bird" most didn't catch), timing, diversion from our prexy telling Matt L. he "deserves" another term, and relaxing with our Steelers AWOL.

It should have been a rude awakening to our local leaders that the "Steeler way" is good but fading into the Super Bowl Sudayset.

"A game for the ages" hardly, and hardly watchable.

The halftime show was awful, maybe worse than last year.

It also had a nice antiseptic atmosphere.

I don't care for Tom Brady, but the sour grapes Steeler fans in this thread are hilarious.

Eli Manning is a better QB than Brady?! Find a single GM in the league to agree.

One guy in here said that Brady is a HOF'er, yet isn't one of the best in the league right now???

How does that make any sense at all?

Wes Welker makes that catch OR Manningham drops his and Brady wins the MVP award and we're not even having this discussion.

You don't have to drool all over the guy, but lord, nothin' like letting your envy show through.

To the people who are defending Brady as still one of the best, this is 2012 it isn't 2007 anymore. He is 6-6 in his last 12 postseason games. He was saved in 2 of them by great plays where he had lost the game for the pats. Had Troy Brown and Stefan Moore not saved him his record since his last SB win would be 4-6. The other thing is it isn't like he has played great in the losses and was unlucky, he has been the main reason for the losses in pretty much every instance. Elite QB's don't repeatedly lose games.

...

Got his team to the SB with no running game.

Bob can't have it both ways. If this is a QB's game now, and the running game isn't important, then it is no accomplishment for Brady to get them to the SB with no running game. Apparently everyone is doing it that way.

One guy in here said that Brady is a HOF'er, yet isn't one of the best in the league right now???



I said that. He was one of the best QB's, but he is no longer one of the best QB's. That isn't a hard concept to grasp. As players age they don't necessarily stay as good as they once were. Brady is not nearly as good as he once was. Period. IMO he was never as good as portrayed, but was still very good. I just never thought he was good as Montana for example.



It's possible Brady is slipping. His regular-season work gave no indication of that. -- Bob Smizik

Happy to see New England lose.
However as I stated numerous times before-
I would take NE 31ST RANKED DEFENSE OVER THE STEELERS #1 RANKED DEFENSE.
It took a miracle catch for the Giants to win on their final drive. If it wasn't for that, today we would be impressed of how well NE played on defense.They were able to put pressure on Eli and they were stopping the Giants in the red zone.

So Bob- for you to say that it was the offense that won this game, I strongly disagree.

Brady couldn't work his magic with 57 seconds left in the game because the Giants finally was able to put pressure on Brady. The Giants were having a tough time putting pressure on Brady all game because of NE strong OL.
And so the winner of the Superbowl was the team that put pressure on the quarterback when the game was on the line. And ironically, NE defense FAILED to apply pressure on Eli on the last TD drive.
Eli is now elite. Not just because he has won his second Superbowl, but because when the game was on the line, he made the plays necessary to win the game. This is something that Ben Rothlisberger
has not done in a while.

written by davey boy, February 06, 2012 - 08:50 AM
Good for the Giants. I don't like to see the NFC win the Super Bowl, but who in their right mind is going to root for the Pats?

I was. But I'm not a typical Pittsburgher, having grown up in CT as a Jets fan. And this SB (as was SB42) was a nightmare matchup. A hated division rival vs. the old school NY/NJ establishment that shares the local airwaves.

I've been doing project work in CT for a couple months (till last Friday) and listening to Giants fans call WFAN not just to laud their own team but to rip into the Jets and Rex and calling them second-class. Much as I might admire certain Giants players (Cruz is one of the best stories of the year), there's only so much of that one can take.

So I was rooting for the Pats as I just can't stand Giants fans. Plus the Jets have two (sometimes three) chances to knock off the Pats each year. They won't play the Giants again for a couple of years. Kinda like rooting for the NL in the WS regardless even if it was the Brewers.

Glad I'm not in CT this week as listening to sports talk would be brutal.

Hopefully, now Brady will drop a notch or two in this "Greatest of all time" discussion. Bradshaw and Montana are still the only QBs with 4 SB wins and can also say, "I never lost a SB." Even so, Bradshaw is always shortchanged in this comparison. Yes, he did turn the ball over a couple of times but, he came up with a big TD pass in the 4th QTR of each SB. He had a SB QB rating of 112 and wasn't afraid to actually throw the ball downfield. Look at the numbers. In SB XIII he threw for 318yds on 17 completions. In SB XIV he threw for 309yds on 14 completions. Brady completed 27 passes last night for 276 yds. Did he complete any passes where the ball actually traveled more than 10 yds downfield? Even Eli needed 30 completions to almost make it to 300 yds. I know the game has changed. But, give the Blond Bomber his due.



Bradshaw, backed by the greatest defense in NFL history and a strong running game, is not even in the discussion for all-time best QB. Quarterbacks should not be measured by their SB record. -- Bob Smizik

Will the Pats draft a real QB this year. Brady still has years ahead of him (so did Drew Bledsoe) but I bet Belichik picks a good system QB from a respected program in the lower rounds- Don't think Hoying (who?- Brady's current backup) is the designated heir. BB won't go for marquee QB but with an efficient order-taker (i.e. Brady in 2001).

Supplemental- Brady and Belichik annoy because they are demigods up here and they did not have the greatest game yesterday and seemed to get to the playoffs through the foibles of others this year- but the fact that they are there every year can't be ignored.

Also I think I suddenly like the Pro Bowl now that not-so Goodell's agin it

I don't care for Tom Brady, but the sour grapes Steeler fans in this thread are hilarious.

Agreed 100%. And this comes from a Pat hater as well.

IMO he was never as good as portrayed,

How good is that? A HOF QB? He certainly was/is that good and then some. He has three rings, a boat load of yards and TDs and a few passing records to back that up.

All that with basically no running game and for most of his career...at least during the 3 SB wins, rag tag receivers.

The Patriots made it pretty far despite their shortcomings in personnel. The Giants were the better, more balanced team.

If Welker makes the catch they Pats probably win. If the Raven's receiver Lee Evan's makes the catch, the Pats aren't even playing for the title. Manningham's catch was unbelievable. It's a fine line.

Most of the comments bashing the Patriots sound like sour grapes. I didn't care who won. It's a good story, either way.

the Pats

He does not belong in the conversation of the best QB's right now or of all-time.

Buccs1960...

Do you consider Dan Marino one of the best QBs of all time?

And...

What in Brady's resume this year tells you that he is still not one of the best in the league

Buccs...Would you consider Bradshaw as one of the best QBs of all time?

To the people who are defending Brady as still one of the best, this is 2012 it isn't 2007 anymore. He is 6-6 in his last 12 postseason games. He was saved in 2 of them by great plays where he had lost the game for the pats. Had Troy Brown and Stefan Moore not saved him his record since his last SB win would be 4-6. The other thing is it isn't like he has played great in the losses and was unlucky, he has been the main reason for the losses in pretty much every instance. Elite QB's don't repeatedly lose games.


+0


Now you are just being foolish..In 10 seasons as a starter he has taken his team to 5 Super Bowls. Also in that time he has been nominated to play in 8 pro bowls. NE lost the last two SB they have played in, does that mean Tom Brady is no longer a great QB?? He has taken his team to the big game in 5 of his 10 years..And unlike Ben he had to do this pretty much by carrying the load himself. Keep in mind he led the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl..I do not think you understand how difficult that is.

He also has not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2004..I would love to know who your top QB's are in the league if Brady is not among them..

One thing to give Eli Manning credit for, he beats the Patriots. I will not be happy until the Steelers do the same. Too many tines Tom Brady came into Pittsburgh and crushed our dreams. Until they beat him and his arrogant coach I will not be satisfied.

To Eli, Well Done

How do you think Baltimore feels after watching that game yesterday?

side note

Goodell mentioned the pro bowl may not be played or needs to be improved. How do you improve that farce. Have the players and coaches vote for an All Star team and leave it at that. I tried to watch the last pro bowl but turned it off after 5 minutes

@buccs

Did Tom steal your lunch money?

Lighten up a bit!

Brady may not be as good as he was in 2007, when he had one of the best years EVER for a quarterback, but you still can't name three guys better than him in todays game. How does that not classify as one of the best?

Look at that ridiculous 98 yd, 10-10 drive to end the first half. How many QB's can do that?

Brady's record in the playoffs is certainly average as of late, but you're lying to yourself if you think he was the main reason for those losses.

Again, Wes Welker makes one catch and we aren't even having this conversation.

"Basically the Giants just won the Super Bowl using the EXACT offense the Steelers used this season. The only difference, the Giants have an offensive line that excels at blocking."

correction....
The Giants beat the Patriots USING the exact SCHEME that the Steelers used when they played the Brady Bunch earlier this year.

RUNNING and Defense is the KEY to Lombardie Happiness
Manning won the MVP because he orchestrated a great drive when they needed it most. With the game on the line.

Which brings me to another Q: Shouldn't S. Holmes' MVP really have gone to Big Ben?

OK, You may call me a hater Bob.

I hate,.... no I HATE that phrase..."one for the ages"

Every dam Super bowl win it seems is "one for the ages"

And yes I hated that headline when Coach Cowher and Ben won it on 05....

one for the ages my butt....I'm only sayin...

@BlueSinSav: "How do you think Baltimore feels after watching that game yesterday?"

I'll bet they feel just like the Steelers do. Next year will be fun. I'm just bummed we now have to endure another summer of the Pirates' attempt at baseball.

Reality check on the run game...

The Giants passed 40 times and ran 28. That's a 59% to 41% pass to run ratio. But that's only part of the story.

I don't have the stats on this but I would be a lunch the Giants had a higher % of runs in the 1st half than in the second. They controlled the clock, pounded out long drives and gained yards as the running game often does when effective.

And when they got the football with 10 minutes left in the 3rd quarter they were LOSING 17-9. If that sounds familiar, its because I just described virtually every Bill Cowher playoff loss before Big Ben.

On top of that, the well rested Giants' defense gave up 96 and 78 Yard TD drives. When the offense started throwing, the defense stopped giving up points. That by the way is A TOTAL COINCIDENCE...but it debunks the theory that running games make defense better.

Simply put, the Giants won the game when they put the ball in Manning's hands and he PASSED them to victory. That is the reality of the current NFL whether you like it or not.

There is absolultely a need to run the ball and have balance. Ball control and TOP are crucial, no matter how you get them. That said, right now this is a passing league for better or for worse.

Bradshaw, backed by the greatest defense in NFL history and a strong running game, is not even in the discussion for all-time best QB. Quarterbacks should not be measured by their SB record. -- Bob Smizik

I take Unitas first, Bradshaw second, Montana third. You see, I likes to win.

Second reality check...New England LIKELY wins that game with a healthy Rob Gronkowski. His absence seriously short circuted an attack that is built on two historically good receiving TEs. Yes I know he played but he was basically injury while hobbling around on the same injury that derailed Big Ben.

Two things we should learn from this...

1) Injuries are CRITICAL in today's NFL. Teams simply do not have the depth they used to have. One key injury can derail a football team. The Steelers should get incredible credit for how well they've played the last two years in spite of so many injuries. They lost in Denver because 8 of 22 starters were either out or seriously hobbled.

2) Being healthy for the playoffs is the most critical thing now, not regular season record. There is a reason that 5 of the last 7 Super Bowl winner have won in spite of playing 4 playoff games. They were healthy...AT THE END OF THE SEASON.

The Steelers were a 6 seed in 2005 only because Ben missed 4 games with injuries that year. If he plays those games, they likely are a 2 seed behind Indy. Green Bay was a six seed last year after losing their starting RB on opening day and Rogers missing two starts (both losses).

If you survive those injuries and are healthy when the playoffs start...you have a chance.

Maybe that's because Noll didn't coach much during a game. He just sent the guys out there to play, and watched them. That defies a rebuttal

Do you remember Noll's teams for great comeback victories? AFC championship at Oakland, trailing twice into the fourth quarter of 2 SB's

Do you remember Noll's teams for patching together cast-offs from other teams? Noll didn't want other teams cast-offs. Walsh for that matter went with his own players

Do you remember the Rooneys kept Noll around for the last TEN YEARS, where he was maybe 2 games over .500? Noll pProbably stayed a little long but still over 500.

If it hadn't been for BLESTO, it would probably have been Chuck Who? Funny 5 other teams were in Blesto. How successful were they?

written by TheUnblogger, February 06, 2012 - 09:25 AM
One thing to give Eli Manning credit for, he beats the Patriots. I will not be happy until the Steelers do the same. Too many tines Tom Brady came into Pittsburgh and crushed our dreams. Until they beat him and his arrogant coach I will not be satisfied.

To Eli, Well Done

Where were you in October? The Steelers beat the Patriots, holding them to 17 points. Eli Manning beats the Patriots? So, he was solely responsible for keeping them to 17 points? Didn't he QB an offense that had to kick two short field goals because he couldn't score?

written by Steelcity, February 06, 2012 - 09:09 AM
"...However as I stated numerous times before-
I would take NE 31ST RANKED DEFENSE OVER THE STEELERS #1 RANKED DEFENSE...."

...And so the winner of the Superbowl was the team that put pressure on the quarterback when the game was on the line. And ironically, NE defense FAILED to apply pressure on Eli on the last TD drive...."


Dude: Before you fill in the pass code and press ADD COMMENT, try reading what you post.
So you want to take the worst defense over the best defense and then make a point of stating how that worst defense performed on the last drive?

hmmmm.

@BlueSinSav: "How do you think Baltimore feels after watching that game yesterday?"

I'll bet they feel just like the Steelers do. Next year will be fun. I'm just bummed we now have to endure another summer of the Pirates' attempt at baseball.
-----------------------------------------
Balt & Pgh had they chances in the playoffs and blew it. Thats the way it goes.
Pens are doing fine and maybe they'll make it to June so you'll have something better to endure. And you do not have to endure the Pirates at all...plenty to do in the summer instead of watching that meaningless time waster.

I wouldn't say this was a game for the ages. Except for the last couple of minutes, I found it boring.

The NFL with it's hands-off pass defense rules has slowly fostered a game ruled by short passes. This game was a pure example of that. Short, boring passes.

The minimization of the running game and the focus on tight ends may be a trend, maybe not.

Brady and Manning would certainly be great quarterbacks in any age and both are just taking advangage of the rules laid out for them.

Looking at the season as a whole, this game also points out how no team in the NFL was clearly dominant in 2011 or in the last several years, really. With so many teams clustered at the top with only mild differences between them, luck became the deciding factor. If Welker catches that pass or Brady's hail mary is successful, the press is talking about the Patriots dynasty along with Belichick and Brady's final coronation as the best ever. All on the turn of one play.

You can go back through the playoffs and find similar instances of the luck of one single play eliminating a team.

Remember how everyone was ready to hand the trophy the the Packers in December?

Perhaps we have reached Pete Rozelle's dream of perfect parity and will never see another 55-10 Super Bowl result or a team's complete dominance of a season from start to finish. I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, just an observation.

The following is the 1st of the lies that you ask for:

Brady is a vastly superior QB to Bradshaw. -- Bob Smizik

Seriously, how can you or anyone else make a statement like that? We are talking about two entirely different eras, with two entirely different sets of rules, two entirely different offensive strategies which leads to entirely different skills sets of the entire offense of each team.

In fact, Bradshaw even called his own plays



Wow! You don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. It is my opinion that Brady is better than Roethlisberger. I might be wrong. But I am not lying.

If I said Bradshaw won three Super Bowls that might be a lie or possibly a mistake. If I said Bradshaw won zero Super Bowls, that would be a lie.

Can I assume from this that you don't think I have been lying, only that our opinions differ? -- Bob Smizik

Nobody threw better passes in Super Bowls than Terry Bradshaw. His signature throws were breathtaking and so many were in the 4th quarter. Eli Manning came close on the Manningham pass but it kind of floated in there, though it was perfect. Consider though the bomb to Swann in X to clinch the game. The clincher to Swann in XIII as well. The bomb to Stallworth to take the lead in XIV. Other great throws and catches in X and XIV particularly. Breathtaking in their magnificence, the catches were superb and the throws were the stuff of legend, they had a "je ne sais quoi" that comes from Bradshaw's late-game combination of a fast release and a bit more zip. I haven't seen anything else near that level of greatness in the Super Bowl, especially multiple Super Bowls and most especially late in the game, and for that reason Bradshaw will always be "the greatest QB" on some level in my eyes.

As a side note, the prettiest 4th-quarter Super Bowl throw since Bradshaw in my opinion is Randle El to Ward in XL. Prettiest spiral I've ever seen.

So you want to take the worst defense over the best defense and then make a point of stating how that worst defense performed on the last drive?-
LetsPlay2

How about reading to understand what I wrote?
I said that if it weren't for the miracle catch by Manningham, today we would be talking of how impressive NE defense was!
I would take NE 31ST ranked defense any day.
They also created two stripped fumbles. Unfortunately the Giants recovered them.
When was the last time the Steelers did that?

**t submit there before mentioning Ben's pinpoint pass to San Antonio in the back right corner as well!



That might be the best pass ever. --- Bob Smizik

Brady is a vastly superior QB to Bradshaw - Bob Smizik.

Sure he is. That is why Bradshaw played RB for the Giants.

@SteelCity...

The Steelers have had one of the most dominant defenses in the NFL for two decades and specifically since 2004. They were integral to two SB championships.

This season, when several key players were clearly aging and on the back end of their careers, they had a sold bend but don't break defense that gave up the fewest points in the NFL.

The defense has aged and clearly some key parts need to be replaced. And yet they still were the toughest team to score on in football this year. Before this year, they were doing getting QB pressure, forcing turnovers, and scoring TDs.

How quickly we forget...

I think that Bob wrote this article before the game was played. The winning team scores 19 points of offense (the D got 2 with a safety) and the talk is about how defense isn't important? Yes, the Giants D was ranked low, but that's because of the numerous injuries. At the end, they were playing as well as the Ravens or Steelers D. Of the final 4, 3 had great defenses.

Sorry, defense is still king in the NFL.

nycrob - Very well said!

Brady is one of the best, but not the best of all time. Sure he has been to 5 superbowls in the last 10 years, but I am completely convinced the 1st 3 wins were because of cheating. And they cheated their way to the superbowl over the Steelers too. I discount those superbowls and Goodell should have discounted them instead of only minor fines. As far as I'm concerned, Brady has yet to win a superbowl.

Of course the passing game is getting more use today. The rule changes favor a passing offense and shame on the league for doing so. The arena football league is painful to watch and the NFL seems to be going that route. Football is a physical game of attrition. I don't understand fans that like to watch all the passing. Give me a great run game and watch the physical beatings. Football should be force and not finesse. And defense, even in this age of offense, is still winning championships. The
Giants have been playing elite defense as of late.

Many here are dsagreeing with me about Brady. That is fine. It is obviously opinion not fact that Brady is either a top 3 guy or not.

I would rate Brady better than Bradshaw for all-time QB's.

Right now i would put the following guys ahead of him in no particular order

Rodgers
Brees
Eli
Ben
and believe it or not Stafford. I know that will be met with much criticism.

To people who think Brady hasn't been the main reason behind most of the playoff losses get real. He has either thrown too many picks or had the ball late and failed or both. That isn't an opinion that is a fact.

Bottom line QB's get too much credit in wins and too much blame in losses. I do realize I very well may be doing that right now.

Putting Ben ahead of Brady is absurd. Maybe the 1 or 2 games a year that he's healthy. He plays the other 10 every year with some combination of foot, hand, ankle, knee, jaw, etc. injury from taking too many hits. Ben may have had better skills at one time, but not anymore, and the biggest muscle, the brain, is clearly in Giselle's bed right now.

"Needing to win their last 2 games to even get in the playoffs, they held the Jets and Cowboys to 14 points each, then shut out Falcons in Atlanta (Atlanta got 2 points on a safety); held the offensive juggernaut Packers to 20 in Green Bay (and anyone who watched knows that the 2 GB touchdowns were courtesy of horrendous calls by the ref - Bill Leavy - that extended those drives when they should have ended); held San Francisco to 17 (the same SF team that scored, then just held the mighty Patriots to 17. If you're keeping score, that's 13.6 points per game in 6 straight playoff or playoff-type elimination games? That's elite level defense. Yes they didn't play that well the whole season, but if they hadn't played at that level in their last 6 games, they're not celebrating tonight."

"As for the people on here saying the Giants ran the same offense tonight that the Steelers do, I can only ask, what game were you watching? Did you not see the fullback opening holes (a few of which Bradshaw ignored) for Bradshaw and Jacobs and blocking on play action passes? Did you ever see a 4 or 5 WR shotgun set on 3rd and 2? For that matter, did you ever see more than 3 wide receivers on the field at any time for the Giants? Did you not see the running backs chip blocking the defensive ends before going out on their routes (instead of letting those ends go one-on-one against the slower OT's all game)? Did you not see the 11 completions (out of 30) to tight ends and backs? Did you ever see a bunch WR set out of a shotgun formation?"-Bill in sf
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Bill- Brilliant

Bottom line QB's get too much credit in wins and too much blame in losses.

Now that's a logical statement, and one that i agree with, Bucs!

Instead of saying we aren't having this conversation if Welker had caught that ball, how about we aren't having this conversation if Brady hadn't given up a safety or he hadn't thrown the pick? Brady also forced a pass into coverage on the play following his bad throw to Welker that he didn't catch.

How about we aren't having this conversation of lee Evans can hold onto a sure TD. How about if there was no phantom holding call early in the game on some Giant O-lineman.

Get over it people. Brady is still good, he is no longer elite.

The Steelers have had one of the most dominant defenses in the NFL for two decades and specifically since 2004. They were integral to two SB championships.- AHab35

I wouldn't use the word dominant. But I agree with you that the Steeler defense has carried the team for most of its existence.
You are a statistics kind of person and statistics told us that the Steelers were ranked #1 on defense! Well I'm not a statistics kind of person. I go by what my eyes see. And what I see is that I would gladly take NE 31ST ranked defense. They intercept passes. Every year they have close to the best turnover ratio. The team plays to strip the ball from your hands. The DL puts pressure on the quarterbacks with just the front three or four. And I can go on.
Would you not agree with me that the Steelers have failed in their personel choices in getting players to apply pressure on the quarterback?
Do you believe that Keisel, Woods and Cameron are the answer going forward? Do you think Harrison and Woodley will do the job next year?

Brady did not play up to his standards in his final two playoff games. But he threw for over 5,000 yards this season, 39 TDs and a passer rating over 100. Got his team to the SB with no running game. I'm not quite ready to dismiss him. -- Bob Smizik

Bob I have to disagree with you here. Going back to your "eye test" theory of players, Tom Brady simply isn't getting it done.

He does not put the fear into other teams like he used to. People are not affraid of him or the Patriots any longer and it is showing on the field.

Stats are great but all that matters is what is done on the field. Prior to this year he had lost his first playoff game in consecutive years.

There is also a changing of the guard going on in the N.F.L. as well. The N.F.C. elite quarterbacks are taking over as Brady declines, Manning is about done, Rivers continues to be irrelevant and don't get me started on Ben.

The Patriots also have no defense which they used to have when Brady was winning superbowls. Their special teams were also unbelievable back then as well, I don't see much of that any more.

And finally, there isn't a person on this earth that convince me that they cheated in every superbowl and playoff game they ever won prior to spygate. I was at almost every one of those games and the Patriots knew exactly what the Steelers were doing as well as everyone else they played.



You write that it's what happens on the field that counts more than stats. I agree. Brady's team, with a weak defense and a limited running game, had the best record in the AFC and advanced to the Super Bowl, where it almost won. How is that not getting it done on the field? --- Bob Smizik

that they DIDN'T cheat...

Brady is a vastly superior QB to Bradshaw. -- Bob Smizik

Bradshaw, backed by the greatest defense in NFL history and a strong running game, is not even in the discussion for all-time best QB. Quarterbacks should not be measured by their SB record. -- Bob Smizik

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I completely, totally, and utterly disagree. I would take Bradshaw, and you can have Brady, ALL DAY LONG!

When Bradshaw played, they didn't require that WR's have all the advantages. They didn't have "Brady QB protection" rules. Bradshaw had a better arm, was more mobile, and was stronger than Brady ever will be.

Brady is 0-2 in SB's post Spygate, and post Patriot running game. He had 3 consecutive early playoff exits prior to this season, when he should have had his 4th (but for Lee Evans).

Bradshaw was an ELITE talent. A legendary talent. You're way off base Bob. WAY!

SteelerMark...Oh I'm learning. I'm learning that if it as 1975, you would be right on target with you football analysis. Since its 2011, you about four decades off. That said, I'll repost what I said a few posts above to further debunk your run, run Ike theories of the modern NFL...

The Giants passed 40 times and ran 28. That's a 59% to 41% pass to run ratio. But that's only part of the story.

I don't have the stats on this but I would bet a lunch the Giants had a higher % of runs in the 1st half than in the second. They controlled the clock, pounded out long drives and gained yards as the running game often does when effective.

And when they got the football with 10 minutes left in the 3rd quarter they were LOSING 17-9. If that sounds familiar, its because I just described virtually every Bill Cowher playoff loss before Big Ben.

On top of that, the well rested Giants' defense gave up 96 and 78 Yard TD drives. When the offense started throwing, the defense stopped giving up points. That by the way is A TOTAL COINCIDENCE...but it debunks the theory that running games makes a defense better.

Simply put, the Giants won the game when they put the ball in Manning's hands and he PASSED them to victory. That is the reality of the current NFL whether you like it or not.

There is absolutely a need to run the ball and have balance. Ball control and TOP are crucial, no matter how you get them. That said, right now this is a passing league for better or for worse

All I know is it's a beautiful day - good-to-great game, and the Cheatriots lost. Aside from the Steelers winning, what could be better?

Why do so many people here have trouble giving Brady his due? I don't like the Pats myself, but I do respect Brady's abilities. He's definitely one of the best ever.
As much as anything, I'm glad the Pats didn't win because I think Belichik is overrated. I'm not saying he's not a really good coach, I just take issue with the way he's labelled a 'genius', and the national media acts as though all other NFL coaches tremble in fear at the thought of facing him.

Simply put, the Giants won the game when they put the ball in Manning's hands and he PASSED them to victory. That is the reality of the current NFL whether you like it or not.-AHab35

The way I see it is that the Giants won by a miracle catch by Manningham. And then the Giants ran the clock by running it for a TD.
If it wasn't for a miracle catch, today we would be impressed by NE defense.

BBnG...cause they look at the Steelers through rose colored glasses. Nothing ever wrong with them, it's someone else's fault the steelers lost, our players are the best, the refs and league are out to get us, blah, blah, blah.

And my comment comes from a die hard Pburgh fan. I just like to look at both sides and not stay in dream world all the time.

Game for the ages? Lordy, I musta missed that one LOL.
So calling our NYC desks and trading desks. Hard to find people working LOL..... Gotta love that city. We all would be at work...
Go Steelers
David

If it wasn't for a miracle catch

Know what? It friggin was. End of story.

I hate when people play the if game in sports and life. The if game is played by people and the team on the losing end of the stick.

As my grandaddy used to say, if ifs were fiths we'd all be drunk.

or

If we had pretzles we'd have beer and pretzles if we had the beer.

Instead of saying we aren't having this conversation if Welker had caught that ball, how about we aren't having this conversation if Brady hadn't given up a safety or he hadn't thrown the pick? Brady also forced a pass into coverage on the play following his bad throw to Welker that he didn't catch.

You're absolutely right. If Brady had played absolutely flawless, without making a single mistake, Welkers drop MAY not have mattered.

How dare I not understand in my infinitesimally small pea of a brain that one must be perfect in order to be considered a top quarterback.

All bow to the great knowledge of 1960.

NMR,

I have no great knowledge about QB'ing in the NFL. If I did perhaps I would be employed as a football coach. I do not think one needs to be perfect to be an elite QB. I do think that one has to play great in big games to do so. Brady has not played great in big games lately.

You feel he is elite still, and I don't. You have stated your case and I have stated mine. The reality is more people would agree with you than me. Does that make you right and me wrong? I don't know. Sorry that I have offended you.

Opinion.

Good to see discussion about this.

Let's just remember when someone posts, it is there opinion, right or wrong. Doesn't make them whiners or crybabies. Doesn't mean just because you wrote something that is right and should be held as gospel.

I would assume this goes for both author and responder.

Gee how about 12 men on the field? Bellicheat couldn not stop that?

How about failue on at least onej possibly two pass interference calls that should have been made on Pats? Welker's miss would not matter.

Brady is a great QB, time is taking toll on him also. Their invincibility is gone.

How about not using Kevin Faulk? If I were a Pats fan I would be upset. Brady needed him as security blanket on 3rd down. But he was not even dressed. No one talks about that poor decision.

12 men on the field by the Giants... Not sure if discussed. I did not see nor watch espn etc.

This could have been a intentional stratgy by NY Giants. Stop a TD, time runs down, worst case you give up 5 yards. If they score against you with 12 men on field you were not destined to win anyway LOL.
What happened clock went down from 15 seconds to 9 and Patriots go the 5 yrds penalty to approx 50yd line.... Good use of the rule. Cheating? Guess not LOL. OLD NEWS????
Go Steelers

Belichek is not a genious. If he had 0 superbowl wins he would never be considered one. Well, he had to cheat to win all 3 of his. Substitute the word cheater for genious.

Brady's legacy starts with 3 superbowl wins. Yet his legacy is tarnished as his unit was cheating for all 3 of his victories. Maybe he isn't the qb everyone thought he was. His real legacy starts in 2007 and on. 2 sb appearances and 0 wins. OK, not great though.

And Tom vs. Terry? It is comparing apples to oranges with all the different rule changes. And the notion that you have to count a running game and how great a defense is to say if a qb is better than another. Who is to say that the best qb in the game doesn't also happen to have a great run game and great defense. While Terry always says he wasn't the best qb in the league, and I believe him because he says it, I would take Terry over Tom because 4sb wins vs. 0sb wins(cheater)

Ahab- Take it up with Bill In SF, Art II, Hines Ward, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, and Joe Greene, who this past weekend just plain ripped BA ball.

And as stated, which was the original point, BA ball and the New York Giants offense are no where close to being the same.

That was your point. That is where you were incorrect. And that is why I was trying to help you out.

If we had pretzles we'd have beer and pretzles if we had the beer.- BlueSinSav

If you weren't alive, you also wouldn't be breathing as you are now!

Picking the all-time best QB will always spur arguments because its just opinion. It is difficult to argue with the names Favre, Montana, Manning, Marino, etc.

All things considered, including era, schedule, rules, impact on the game, etc., for me, it's John Unitas.

The guy the Steelers cut in 1955. A guy who played both ways in college. Played QB and linebacker while also returning punts and kickoffs for his Louisville team. Talk about a different era.

Many don't realize the Browns were hot to claim Unitas when the Steelers cut him but the Colts got there first. Could you imagine Unitas in the same backfield with Jim Brown? With Paul Warfield and Gary Collins to throw to? If the Browns claim Unitas, Green Bay probably doesn't have that great run in the late 50s through the 60s.

Manningham made a great catch, yes, but earlier he carelessly stepped out of bounds with a crucial catch on third down. Manningham's non-catch reminded me of one of Lynn Swann's great Super Bowl catches in one of the Super Bowls against Dallas. Somebody else will now which one.

Like Manningham, Swann was running along the sideline and the only way to grab Bradshaw's pass was for Swann to make an amazing leaping catch (unlike Manningham). It looked like Swann was 12 feet in the air and then he came down with both feet inbounds. Comparing those two plays shows the difference between a good receiver and a great receiver.