Bob, it is pretty simple why not. He will end up taking innings away from Charlie Morton, James McDonald or Jeff Karstens. They need to pitch to see if they will be the third, fourth, and fifth starters when Cole arrives.

But must like Erik Bedard will get hurt and the Pirates rotation will be A.J. Burnett, Karstens, Morton, McDonald, and Correria.

He was a solid pitcher for the Blue Jays. Who knows, maybe his issues with the Yankees were more along the lines of not feeling comfortable with either the club or New York market. If that was the case -- he brought those issues on himself -- as he was the one who opted out of an $11M a year contract in Toronto to chase even bigger money.

If the Pirates are able to finagle a deal where they can get him for a heavily subsidized salary without giving up a lot in return -- it's definitely a solid move with some real potential.

One other item. He was labeled as injury prone -- but as far as I know -- he was healthy his entire time in New York.

look, when you're the pirates, you have to take some risks. as long as they're talking money and not real prospects, i say why not? this is a pitching staff with little depth and injuries are all but inevitable. as to the point miami makes, let them earn their innings. you can never have enough depth.

pull the trigger.

Bob,

You lost me on the Walker and McCutchen argument. Every dollar you spend on one thing is a dollar that can't be spent on something else.

And I think Burnett is worth a shot. I live in NJ and have Yankee fans in the family, so I saw him pitch a lot. He has talent. There is reason he could rebound. But he's not a given, so the Pirates need to pick a number($5 million a year is about right)where Burnett's real value is right now. I'll never be in favor of the Pirates overpaying to prove a point. Bring Burnett here only because he's worth what you're paying. Burnett will hurt the chances of signing McCutchen and Walker a great deal if they pull another Matt Morris.

Anyone that doesn't think Burnett is a good gamble, isn't smart enough to post on this blog! As Bob says "why not"? For the quoted $5 million/year number, this is a no brainer to try!

Would also be nice to see a grooming policy like the Marlins have, look like a winner just may help turn these losers into winners!

Bob,

Well said and I agree with all. This team is SO bad that they have no choice but to take a flyer on Burnett in exchange for someone such as Jones.

It's more than a little frustrating for fans to know that we face yet another season of the Nutting mantra "we're building a winner" when clearly, they are NOT doing so with any haste, nor with any money!

At this pace, the Pirates might be competitive in, say, 4512?

Trade for Burnett? Sort of like buying a set of re-treads for a car that has a cracked engine block isn't it? If we were really going somewhere it might make sense.

Agreed, Bob. The acquisition of Burnett makes the Pirates a better team as long as his 'price' is right.

Why is New York so anxious to dump this guy? Last 3 seasons: 34-35 with a 4.78 ERA. If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere

My 1st impression was 'no way - no how'. Having a son-in law who is a Yankee fan I have watched him. He seemed fragile in the psych department. But I am being swayed to turn to the 'dark side' in this matter. The Pirates need SPs who are able to eat innings and are 'power' types. He fits the bill and if he does well and the Pirates are doing well (I did not say .500) he can be kept, if the pirates do their usual bottom feeding they can use him as trade bat. It looks like that scenario is a win win one. If he stinks then all that is lost is money which the Pirates can afford to lose. Just dont give away the farm system to get him. I can see GI Jones as 'bait'.

Not to mention our recent commitment "power" pitchers.
Do you think some of the youngsters will be fired up to work with a proven vet like AJ?
I don't know if AJ has any role modeling in his history but we have a couple of kids who are similar to him in style.
I say pull the trigger on this right now. If there are no prospects involved then there is no risk to this at all.
Go PITT!

Agree totally, depending on the price in terms of dollars and players. Anywhere in the $5-$7 million per year is golden, to me. I would force the yankees to take Garret Jones and Charlie Morton, too, but that's just me

The notion that Burnett would take innings away from "young" pitchers like Morton, Karstans and MacDonald is also foolish.

Karstans, as it stands now, is your ace. He was your best, most dependable pitcher last year. Assuming he's recovered from his injury last year, he's no lower than 2 in the rotation.

Morton will not start the season in the bigs and may not be ready to pitch until sometime in June or July. And there is no telling whether he will overcome this injury.

MacDonald is a 4 inning pitcher. he would best suited for long relief.

Correia will probably get a hall pass to the starting rotation this year, but he doesn't deserve it. He had two exceptional months last year and had no business being the all-star game.

So there is plenty of room for Burnett.

Good Morning.

None of us on this blog can read into the future, obviously. We can only go from past history on Burnett.

In the last 3 yrs he has not been very good. Can he find success in the NL again? That is the big question.

When with the Marlins, Burnett was an above-average Sp w/ very good "stuff". When with the Blue Jays, except for that 1 yr, and NYY he was an average SP w/ very good "stuff".

What can the PBC expect from Burnett?

I think they will get a very good SP that should/could/would move them forward in there desire to become competitive. He can only make them better IMO.

will Burnett bring them a playoff spot?

No 1 SP, or position player for that matter, is going to put a team in the playoffs. It will take a team effort to improve enough to even sniff a Wild Card spot. If Burnett comes here and stays within himself, not try to do too much and get some help from teammates, it could make for a very interesting season in the 'Burgh.

BFD's thoughts
- I am not against the move. He would be an upgrade, which speaks to the lack of talent on this team.
- If Burnett pitches well into the summer, he'll be trade bait, so it's not a 2 year commitment
- no other team appears interested in him, yet on the Pennies he'd be an upgrade
- Wonder what the plan supporters will think about signing a 35 year old (again). I hear praise often heaped on Neal for "sticking to the plan"
- Spending a few million on this guy SHOULD have no impact on signing Cutch down the road. On a NORMAL team, these two things are totally unrelated.
- This is a typical Pennies move. Inconsequential, yet they and their supporters will point to it as "proof" that they are willing to spend and upgrade the team

The only thing this trade will cost in all likelihood is money. Nutting has more than enough to spend. It seems as if the Pirates will not trade Jones. Even if they do, who cares? In regards to prospects, again odds are it won't cost much if anything. As is often pointed out here most prospects flame out. I wouldn't be in favor of trading Kingham, but the odds are he won't amount to much. I do think he has a better than average chance though. He hasn't thrown a pitch above short-season ball, so he is a ways off if he even makes it.

I honestly feel the Pirates have a number of pitching prospects so trading one won't kill them, even if he ends up being good. That is as long as he isn't the only one who ends up good. Bottom line is Nutting needs to open up the purse strings. NH needs to lose that stupid internal value and improve a potentially disastrous rotation.

Burnett's limited no-trade clause includes ten teams that he cannot be traded to ... and Pittsburgh was NOT one of those ten?

When has THAT ever happened?

I hardly think Burnett is going to turn the Pirates into a contender or make a large difference in their win total, he makes them a better team.

Its a business
They can lose with him or lose without him. No sense to make the profits lower. Think like its your money on the line and understand the owner that people dont like but give him their money

Bob, I will agree the pirates might as well go for it. It cannot really hurt them. I mean if he goes 4-17 this year it will not make much of a difference than the norm. If he goes lights out then they get a few more wins this year....not many...but a few..so instead of 68 wins they get to 72.


He could have a nice year....but I will disagree with you that this does not make the Pirates better. He will not get this team to not lose 90 or more games as they have since 2007. All the pitchers in the world cannot make up for a sorry batting and fielding lineup. If the pirates had Maddux, ryan, cy young, clemens, and burnett as their starting 5 they would still lose because while they would only give up 2-3 runs a game this pathetic batting lineup would only score 1 run.

They continue to ignore the real problem...batting and fielding....oh yeah and ownership.

heartbeat,

I disagree a McD. He was hurt early and was rushed back. McD has excellent "stuff" and if healthy, can be dominating.

Also, I wouldn't give up Morton. He seemed to be turning the corner last season.

As far as trading Jones, that would be fine as long as the NYY throw in a top hitting prospect. Now, if D. Lee was going to re-sign with the PBC, I wouldn't be worried about Jones. Jones, as of this moment, is too valuable to give up w/o getting something of significance from the NYY.

I, myself, would like to see this trade become a blockbuster.

Send Jones, a couple C Prospects and eat $12-14M, to get Burnett and Swisher. But....may just have to send a prospect like a Kingham to make that happen.

- no other team appears interested in him

This is not true.

It has been reported that three, 3, other teams have inquired about Burnett. c'mon Man!

He also may well get traded at the deadline, SO WHAT! If he does, the PBC is out of contention, way out. If he is having a good season, he could bring a bat the PBC so desperately needs.

Even at 35 he can still be a good SP.

I must admit, I'm not a fan of throwing huge sums of money at these relics, who are mostly living off of past reputation. This move is nothing for the Pirate fan base to get overly excited about just because it is a big name pitcher.

However, if the deal can be made without the Pirates turning over the keys to Fort Knox, and without giving up any top prospects, then I see no harm in pulling the trigger on the deal. It can't make things any worse for the pitching staff than they already are, and it may actually help to stabilize the staff a little.

I would however caution Pirate fans that the huge sums of money MLB is dishing out to players in no way, shape, or form guarantees success, as we are reminded on almost a daily basis during the season.

This move should be lauded by fans of all types. It shouldn't be lauded to any great extent. Will it improve the team? Yes. Will it improve the team a great deal? No. Would Burnett improve other teams? Yes. He would be an improvement for many teams. He would be better than most teams number 5 guy. That is all he would be here too. He would replace Correira.

Now if he replaces Correira, the Pirates should then just release him or trade him for whatever they can get. Eat his contract. It was a bad signing.

This move wouldn't be a part of the plan. It also reeks of a DL type move. My hope for this move would be that he regains his status as a talented pitcher. That he helps the team win more games. I would also hope that some of the alleged minor league pitching talent steps up and makes him expendable. He could then be flipped for something useful. Now if the young pitchers don't step up, you keep him for the two years.

You lost me on the Walker and McCutchen argument. Every dollar you spend on one thing is a dollar that can't be spent on something else.

Yes, but who says Burnett $$ takes away $$ already allocuted for those costs? If there's one thing we all agree on, it's that this team never goes in the red. They budget annually and project out 5 years I'm sure. Burnett's contract runs out before Cutch or Walker start making serious coin in Arbitration. This team has made it abundantly clear that is will spend what it bring in, and this year they are projecting (apparently) $55M to spend. Do you really think they're building up some kind of "war chest" to pay Cutch? I seriously doubt it. They'll spend within a few million of what they take in every year. If the money isn't spent on Burnett THIS YEAR, those funds I believe to do the G. Ogden Nutting Invitational Golf Outing in Boca Raton. They sure as heck aren't going to be saved for a future fiscal year.

I hope the Pirates get Burnett. It would make the season more interesting.

Why all the hatin' on Correia? You guys make him out to be Walt Terrell.

He was average, no better, no worse.

I see a rotation, to start the season, of Bedard, Burnett, Karstens, Correia and McD in that order. Maybe even split up the hard throwers (Bedard, Burnett and McD) with Karstens and Correia. Morton by late April/early May and ease him into the rotation by starting him out in long relief.

There is a good possibility that the PBC is going to need more than 5 SPs throughout the season. I see nothing wrong w/ having a bullpen that has a Lincoln and/or Morton as a long man or spot starter. They shouldn't need a 5th Starter in the first 10 games or so.

Spending a few million on this guy SHOULD have no impact on signing Cutch down the road. On a NORMAL team, these two things are totally unrelated.

See above. They are unrelated here too, but only because Cutch and Walker have yet to start costing anything serious and won't next year either.

As for the trade itself, as long as it's just for a couple of middling prospects in Bradenton or Altoona, I'm all for it. The Yankees have almost 0 leverage here to demand anything other than salary. I remember seeing him pitch in PNC a 7-10 years ago, and he was awesome. I know he's not that same exact guy now, but if they can get anything resembling that guy, it would be very sweet.

While I realize that Burnett is a "big name" and that may be what a lot of people want, the guy sucks. He's awful. And he's 35. What exactly is the upside here? Recent history tells us that rebounding from several bad years to have a good first half isn't worth anything on the trade market, so'd basically be acquiring him to help you win a few more games this year. But, at best, he's a what -- 3 WAR pitcher?

Part of my hesitation is that I actually like Garrett Jones. And if you trade Jones for Burnett, you have to play McGahee at 1B full time. He's a significant downgrade against lefties from Jones. On top of that, you would no longer have a backup if Alvarez struggles and has to spend time in AAA. So trading Jones could actually downgrade you at TWO positions!



It is my understganding Jones is off the table. I would not make the deal if the Yankees insist on Jones. -- Bob Smizik

I mean "downgrade against righties from Jones".

Why not? Because the guy has not been pitching well, and that ain't going to change if he comes to Pittsburgh. He's a name only. I say NOOO WAY to this one.

*t all depends on the price. Burnett is owed 33 million the next two years. If the Yankees pay 20 or more, and the Pirates dont give up anything of value, okay, go for it. But if the yankees want the Pirates to pick up somewhere around 20 million ( about 10 per season) , no thanks.

I just find it hard to believe Brian Cashman is going to give the Pirates AJ Burnett, 20 million in cash, for nothing.

Again, Im going to mention Matt Morris. Littlefield traded a marginal major league player (Rajai Davis?) and took on Morris's whole salary. In the end, he did absolutely nothing and in hindsight, those assets were better used elsewhere.

The Pirates are a 70 win team without Burnett. Are they really that much better with him? I wish they would have been more active at the outset of free agency for a veteran pitcher...All depends on the price, and remember the Yankees arent dumb.

Miami,

I don't understand your logic. If the rotation is McDonald, Morton, Karstens, Bedard, and Correia, how do McDonald, Morton, and Karstens get more innings than if the rotation is McDonald, Morton, Karstens, Bedard and Burnett? Seems to me that replacing Correia with Burnett would be an upgrade. It's not necessarily true that one of the three you mentioned would get bumped. And if they can't outpitch Kevin Correia, should we really be worried about getting them innings anyway?

*t all depends on the price. Burnett is owed 33 million the next two years. If the Yankees pay 20 or more, and the Pirates dont give up anything of value, okay, go for it. But if the yankees want the Pirates to pick up somewhere around 20 million ( about 10 per season) , no thanks.

See, I'm on the other side. Look, the team has said it can raise payroll if the fans show up. They haven't. So I'm going to assume that they could afford to eat all of Burnett's salary for the next two years. If they can get him for a C-prospect by eating the full salary, then it's a no-brainer to acquire him.

First for the record, I am not a big fan of Connelly or Huntington as some have questioned. They have done a better job of re-stocking the minor league system than their predecessors. Syd Thrift stands as the best GM over the past 40 years. The rest I consider bums.

I believe we have consensus on this deal. Morton shouldn't be rushed back like they did McDonald. He (Morton) will eventually take Correias' in the rotation.

If you are NOT keeping up on the discussions regarding starting pitching taking place on the MLB network the trend is getting 5 starters that can consistently give you 5 decent innings and investing in a solid bullpen. Burnett, Correia, McDonald, Kartens and Bedard with Morton and Lincoln waiting in the wings should fit that bill.

Including Jones in the deal does no harm. This opens up the possibility of platooning Hague and Alvarez at 1B with MeGehee and Harrison sharing time at 3B. (I agree with Fat Jimmy) Of course that's if Lee doesn't resign.

The reality is the roster could win 75-80 games in a weakend NL Central.
Cincy is now the new offensive power but their pitching is still suspect. The plan for the Bucs should be to improve by at least 5 wins each season over the next 3 years to break the 19 year string and become attractive to FAs that many of the bloggers long for. If the roster remains as is the opening day line-up may look something like this:

LF - Pressley
RF - Tabeta
2B - Walker
CF - McCutchen
3B - Alvarez
1B - Hague
SS - Barmes
C- Barajas

If Lee resigns, he moves into the 4 spot, McCutchen 5, Alvarez 6, Barmes 7 and Barajas in the 8 spot.

I would not send Pedro down to AAA. I would make him earn his way up in the order. Personally I don't ever see him as a #4, #5 at best.

Some people seem to forget that part of the "plan" of developing top-tier minor league prospects is that some of those prospects can be moved as trade bait to help the MLB team. I'm not saying to unload Cole or Taillon, but other prospects should be fair game if the Bucs feel that Burnett would help.

*t doesn't seem fair to state that no other team is interested in Burnett. It is still the Yankee's, and as everyone knows, no matter what type of leverage you think you may have, the Yankee's always have a touch more than they are showing.

It will be up to those other GM's that are slightly interested to keep the evil empire from gouging the Pirates. If they don't play the game that Cashman is obligated to play, then his options remain Pirates or get ripped off. Extortion comes with the territory in that neck of the woods though, so we shouldn't be surprised by anthing.

The question isn't whether the Pirates should trade for Burnett.

The question is this . . .

Would Nutting spend the money to obtain Burnett?

Their 10 million offer for two years equaling 5 million a year is on par TBMTIB.

If the Yankees want the Pirates to increase that offer to say 12 million the answer to above question would be a resounding NO!

Prove me wrong, Nutting.

I've gone back and forth on this. If the deal is just taking on some salary, then I guess my final conclusion is that it doesn't really matter. Burnett is over the hill and is somewhat of a headcase. He won't bring a lot to the table, but the Pirates won't be anywhere near the playoffs, so who cares?

I won't be upset if the Pirates don't do it, but I certainly won't be praising the FO if they do. Its really no different than acquiring Kevin Correia

And not to get away from the topic but stop for a minute and think...AJ Burnett is what 35? Barajas is 35. Barmes, I think is 31 or 32. Bedard, I believe is around 31 or so...You gave all this money to aging veterans, that very few teams other teams wanted...I mean, this looks like Pat Mears and Jeromy Burnitz all over again fellas...And I understand you want them to spend more money , but, jeez. These guys arent that good.

In regards to the 10 teams on his "no-trade" list, and why the Pirates aren't one of them; I've heard it reported they're all teams out west. His wife lives on the east coast and doesn't like flying that much, or so I'm told.

you can't be serious-burnett had a 5.15era and gave up 32 homers and could only win 11 games for the bronx bombers and the world's greatest front office is gonna pay him 10 mil a year--for a team that has a serious problem scoring runs?

and yet the pirates let a guy like maholm go for 4.7 mil--with his 3.66 era and 13 homers given up--

we need bats-not overspending on a 36 year old batting practice pitcher who will have no incentive to pitch for our perennial losers

As for Burnett's numbers the past few years, remember he was pitching many games against good lineups in the AL east. Boston, obviously is tough. Tampa has been pretty good. Even Toronto has improved and has a pretty potent lineup. If he pitches in Pittsburgh, he'd be pitching many games against Milwaukee without Fielder, St. Louis without Pujols, as well as the Astros, Cubs and Reds. Add to that the fact that he'd be pitching to opposing pitchers as well, and that indicates that his numbers in Pittsburgh would be improved over his NY numbers. I would think 0.25 - 0.50 runs or so per game would not be unreasonable based on competition level and DH alone.

Further, many times a talented player gets into a negative situation on one team and cannot dig his way out of it. Maybe Burnett just cannot handle the pressure and the spotlight that comes with playing for the Yankees. If that's true, there's probably no better remedy for that than coming to Pittsburgh; there's probably less pressure on players here than there is anywhere else in the league.

If he comes here, I would not be totally surprised if he ends up posting 10 wins or so and has an ERA in the 4.00-4.50 range, and eats about 200 innings. Anyone really want to argue that such numbers would not be an upgrade over what you would expect to get from someone like Correia?

And not to get away from the topic but stop for a minute and think...AJ Burnett is what 35? Barajas is 35. Barmes, I think is 31 or 32. Bedard, I believe is around 31 or so...You gave all this money to aging veterans, that very few teams other teams wanted...I mean, this looks like Pat Mears and Jeromy Burnitz all over again fellas...And I understand you want them to spend more money , but, jeez. These guys arent that good.

I agree. This is starting to look just like the early 2000's all over again. Also, this is precisely why so many people were all over the front office about acquiring Hunter Pence when he was on the trading block last year. It would have been the opposite of getting an over the hill bum. He is a young guy on the way up, with multiple years of contol still left. But the Pirates will not get a guy like Pence, with an uncertain arbitration outlook, that might earn him a big raise. Cost certainty is a must. Also, notice how that $5 million per year number is coming up again with Burnett. That really is the ceiling for what they are willing to pay per year on any deal...

I think the more money the Pirates are willing to pay of Burnett's contract over the next 2 years, the less they have to worry about giving up a good prospect. NY is eagerly trying to make room for a LH DH hitter they can sign. For 5-6 million a year for the next two years, I feel A.J. has enough left in the tank that the Buccos should take a shot.

And I agree with Bob, they can do this and work on deals for Cutch and Walker... You have to show some of the younger players on this team some type of commitment to winning and a VET like Burnett could help a lot. For all the talk about how bad the last few seasons for him has gone, he would have been the 3rd most valuable pitcher for the Pirates last season....

If the Pirates were so interested in having a better team this season, they would have kept Doumit and Maholm. Burnett has led the league in wild pitches 3 times in his career, is creaky old Barrajas going to corral those? As long as the Pirates give up nothing, and the Yankees pay 2/3rds of his salary, fine. But if Burnett couldn't be a winner with the Yankee offense, what hope does he have with this popgun offense?

*t is being reported that the Pirates are more concerned with prospects than money. In other words it sounds like the Pirates are in a full reversal. They would rather pay more of Burnett's salary than give up a higher end prospect.

Now here's hoping that Burnett pulls a Pavano if he gets traded here. Pavano was a disaster in NY, but once he left he became a pretty solid pitcher.

Make the trade for Burnett and then contact Oswalt's agent and make another offer for him. I know it's the longest of long shots but maybe Oswalt reconsiders if he sees Burnett in Pittsburgh. A rotation of Oswalt, Burnett, Bedard, Karstens and either Morton or McDonald would definitely stir some early season excitement at PNC Park. Hey, I can dream can't I?

I say make the deal if the Yanks are willing to pick up so much of Burnett's salary. The Bucs would be fools not to.

Talk of this deal has pointed out the extreme differences in the two franchises. Burnett made $16.5 for the Yankees in 2011 but his was only the 4th highest salary on the team.

ARod ($32 mill), Sabathia ($24 mill) & Teixeira ($23 mill) make a combined $79 million a year or, to put it another way, nearly twice what the Pirates pay their entire team. Also illumintaing is the fact they are considering picking up $20 million of Burnett's salary if they make the deal. In other words, another team would be paying more salary to him than any other player the Pirates actually pay. Insanity.

This is what you can do when you generate as much revenue as the Yankees do, nearly twice as much revenue as the second richest team (Mets).

*t "smells" like a Matt Morris re-do to me. Let's see the Yankees can't give the guy away, NO other bonafide MLB team wants him and Bob thinks he's a perfect fit for the Pirates.

Hey, the Pirates can lose 90+ again without this stiff!

This past week, I have stated that this trade is a no-brainer for the Pennies. For the yanks to eat 75% of Burnetts salary, and not get a top prospect in return, makes this deal almost too good to be true.

I DO wonder, however, why anyone wouldnt want to do this trade.

Some posters have stated Burnett has stunk the past 2 years, but that may be due to pitching in the microscope that is New York. A change of scenery could do some major good.

At worst, Burnett is an innings-eater. Those are rare in MLB today. 8-11 wins a year, 200+ innings a year (to help the bullpen), only costing $$4-5MM a year?? Go for it.

Now if the Yanks want to much in return, then just say no. Simple, huh??

Again, I do wonder why some "fans of the FO" dont want to do this deal. Here is a chance to cheaply upgrade the team, without giving up the farm. Isnt that what the FO defenders want??

Please enjoy a corndog, folks!

...
First casual observation is that this somewhat optimistic piece on the Pirates contains the usual copious number of if's and but's.


There are two underlying assumptions Bob and most posters are making:

A) The Nuttings desire to make the Pirates a better team.

B) And by "better" you mean a team that wins more games.

First you must ask yourself what is a "better" team to this ownerships? There precious little evidence to suggest that better means win more games.

Lots of history to suggest that bottom line profit is the measure of "better".

Crafty old veteran that he is, maybe der blogmeister is trying to goad the PBC into a rational baseball move.

Who cares? With or without we lose 90 games. Stay at home Pirate Fans! Save your $.

I think the more money the Pirates are willing to pay of Burnett's contract over the next 2 years, the less they have to worry about giving up a good prospect. NY is eagerly trying to make room for a LH DH hitter they can sign. For 5-6 million a year for the next two years, I feel A.J. has enough left in the tank that the Buccos should take a shot.

I have a hard time believing that the Yankees are concerned about how much money they will have to eat. Money is essentially irrelevant to them. I would have to think the Yanks are strictly looking at what they can get in return.

Problem is, Pirates don't have much talent to trade. The Yankees apparently want a DH-type. We don't have any of those. It's Jones and that's it.

- no other team appears interested in him, yet on the Pennies he'd be an upgrade

BFD, this is further evidence that you actually don't bother to read anything about the Pirates. You just opine in a rather ignorant way spouting off the same crap. How can you stand being so cynical every day? Are you Ron Cook?

I find all this quibbling over this possible trade, humorous. This is actually a legitimate move by the Pirates to be better this year. A few million extra a year will not hurt this club. AJ Burnett will automatically be one of the top pitchers on the team. I know Eric Bedard has a history of getting injured, but no one knows for sure what will happen to him. If they both stay healthy, the Pirates can stay half decent. I still think that they should make a bigger move and try to land a legitimate first baseman or a solid third baseman. I think the Mets will move David Wright for a good offer. Move Pedro to first. If the Pirates continue to play above their heads, maybe they last a little longer this year. Stranger things have happened.

It is my understganding Jones is off the table. I would not make the deal if the Yankees insist on Jones. -- Bob Smizik

I saw that, too, Bob, but I can't imagine how this trade will go down without Jones. If you're the Yankees, there is little value in clearing salary, so the only way you're going to make this deal is if you get talent in return. But the Bucs don't have talent. Jones is the only guy who is a reasonable fit for a trade. And I think we both agree that downgrading from a ~.850 OPS/RHP guy to a ~.650 OPS/RHP guy is too big of a downgrade to an already bad offense.

Syd Thrift stands as the best GM over the past 40 years. The rest I consider bums

Wow. That time frame would include Joe L. Brown and Pete Petersen. Funny, Brown's teams won division titles in '72, '74 and '75 (not counting the '71 World Series because that's out of the 40 year window). I think not winning the division in '73, in the wake of Clemente's death and starting the season with Sanguillen in right field until Parker stepped up, is understandable. He also laid the foundation for the '79 World Champs (Stargell, Parker), who were GMd by Pete Petersen, who brought in Chuck Tanner, Phil Garner and pulled off some pretty good in season trades for Tim Foli and Bill Madlock. Just saying.

I have a hard time believing that the Yankees are concerned about how much money they will have to eat. Money is essentially irrelevant to them. I would have to think the Yanks are strictly looking at what they can get in return.

Problem is, Pirates don't have much talent to trade. The Yankees apparently want a DH-type. We don't have any of those. It's Jones and that's it.


-1

Under MLB's new collective bargaining agreement, the New York Yankees' luxury tax rate will increase to 42.5 percent in 2012, as teams are penalized heavier for exceeding the luxury tax threshold several times in a row.

The rate will rise again to 50 percent in 2013 if New York continues to break that threshold, which currently stands at $178 million.

The Yankees have paid over $200 million into the pot since 2003 for their lofty payroll, and the new CBA harshly penalizes teams for multiple offenses, so to speak.

Dealing A.J. Burnett now and freeing up at least some of his salary makes sense for a team that has grown weary of giving money away for other clubs to use as they wish
By Doug Mead(Featured Columnist) on February 10, 2012

Minor league expert Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus has 6 Pirates in his top 76 players!

If Burnett can be had the 2012 Pirates on paper look to be better than last years team.

Management adding to the ML team, the minor leagues in good shape the future looks promising. The plan looks to be working. NH and FC need more time to see this thing through.

This is actually a legitimate move by the Pirates to be better this year. A few million extra a year will not hurt this club

easy for you to say this when its not your money. Its about the risk and the money and Nutting does not like to risk not making money. You see, there is more down side risk on the profit balance sheet

...

written by Bandit, February 13, 2012 - 09:11 AM
Who cares? With or without we lose 90 games. Stay at home Pirate Fans! Save your $.

You're thinking the right way there, Bandit.

Just one little "tweak" for your game. It would be more politically correct if you recommended fans spend their money elsewhere in the 'burgh, instead of enabling the PBC.

Bob:

I would not trade for him. I believe he is finished as a big league pitcher. His recent record dictates a hard look at his performance. The Yanks have made the determination they would pay a large portion of his salary to dismiss him from their roster,it is rarely a money issue with the Yankees,this is performance based,the Bucs do not need another underperformer on the hill at any price.

Corri

The plan looks to be working. NH and FC need more time to see this thing through.

It is working alright. It is working its way backwards, which means many many more losing seasons to come . . . just like in the past.

@Fat Jimmy you need to do some more background research to get a better understanding of the particulars of this trade.

The Pirates have 33 million reasons not to sign Burnett

you can't be serious-burnett had a 5.15era and gave up 32 homers and could only win 11 games for the bronx bombers and the world's greatest front office is gonna pay him 10 mil a year--for a team that has a serious problem scoring runs?

------------------------------------------------


Remember that he was pitching in a very tough division. Couple that with the Yanks ballpark is rather hitter friendly.
Yanks basically have 7 starters available and want to get under the luxary tax.
I say acquiring Burnett for 5 mill/year is a positive for the Bucs. And I wouldn't miss GI Jones and all his strikeouts if he were included.

I saw that, too, Bob, but I can't imagine how this trade will go down without Jones.

Fat Jimmy,

I have to respectfully disagree. I can't imagine how this trade will go down with Jones. If money was no object to the Yankees, they would just go out and sign Eric Chavez or Johnny Damon or whoever they want really to fill that DH/occasional fielder *somewhere* spot and not bother trading Burnett. I'm not saying the Yankees are hurting for money, but rather that they seem to be much more cautious about being over the luxury tax lately. Everything I've read about this trade suggests they won't sign a DH until they see how much they have to spend based on this trade's salary relief.

Sure, the Yankees would love to get Jones in return as he's at least as good as Chavez or Damon at this point. It would kill two birds with one stone for them. The Pirates, on the other hand, have no incentive to give up Jones as there seems to be other pitchers available to them, like Blanton maybe, who they could theoretically get without giving up Jones for sure. There's not a lot of teams willing to take on salary right now, and that plays in the Pirates favor for this particular deal.

Roger,

You seem to be looking for an argument. The FO supporters are in favor of the trade if it is a good one. What does that mean? It means go for it as long as they aren't giving up too good of a prospect. So I guess the FO supporters want the same exact thing you do, but yet you criticize them.

ISIS,
They aren't going backwards the team has improved. Remember they won 15 more games last year. Remember how I showed you the difference in the pct of raw number of wins. LOL.

LGB,

I saw that. The Pirates were the only team with 4 top 50 prospects. that is pretty impressive.

*t is being reported that the Pirates are more concerned with prospects than money. In other words it sounds like the Pirates are in a full reversal. They would rather pay more of Burnett's salary than give up a higher end prospect.

1960 - Was afraid the Spankmee organization would pull this garbage. It's tough doing business with these guys...In all fairness, Huntington has hosed them in the past, not really overtly, they got what they wanted in playoff help, but they were not on the winning end of the deals.

I am not suggesting that they would hold him over the fire for it now...just hoping that Huntington doesn't fall in love with adding another starter so hard that he let's CASHman do anything but lose again.

The Yanks SHOULD lose on this deal...no matter what. They signed Burnett to a horrible contract because THEY COULD. They need to be burned all the way through on this deal or it's a loss for all of baseball.

$6 million per or $13 million up front...$5 per with 1 mid level prospect...game over otherwise.

Thoughts:

- People, get this into your brain..THE PITTSBURGH PRIATES HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY. DON'T WORRY, PAYING FOR PLAYERS WILL NOT SIGNAL THE END OF THE WORLD, OR MEAN THERE IS NO MONEY TO SIGN OTHER PLAYERS NOR WILL IT MEAN THE PIRATES WILL BE TAKEN FROM PITTSBURGH. What a bunch of brainwashed yo-yo's and only followers of the Pirates would have this much discussion on this topic...

- As I see it, the questions are what do they have to give up to get him and is he better than what they have now:

For you minor league lovers out there it doesn't sound like they're having to give up anything big so you can breathe easier now and go back to watching the West Virginia field camera's now.

So is he better than what they have. In my opinion, he's much better since he's shown the ability to be a horse for a team. Right now we have a buch of players who have done nothing or only shown they can produce for 1/2 a season at most. I say make the trade.

- Agree what @jayh63 posted above. Then go and try and sign another pitcher or two to give yourself a shot at a decent rotation.

- I'd also then take any of the left over pitchers and see if they can be packaged and traded for some good position players. Take your pick since they need a 1B, SS, 3B, LF, RF.

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 09:52 AM The Pirates were the only team with 4 top 50 prospects. that is pretty impressive.

buccs1906. That would be impressive if the Pirates hadn't drafted in the top three spots for most of the last 10-12 years.

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 09:52 AM

LGB,

I saw that. The Pirates were the only team with 4 top 50 prospects. that is pretty impressive.

The barren farm is in much better shape now after 4 years of drafting now management is starting to address the ML team. The plan is right on schedule it's just not happening as fast as many would like. A little more patience is needed.

written by LetsgoBucs, February 13, 2012 - 10:01 AM
The barren farm is in much better shape now after 4 years of drafting now management is starting to address the ML team. The plan is right on schedule it's just not happening as fast as many would like. A little more patience is needed.

Why is it that posters who are n luv wit Mr. N forget that the Nutting family has "owned" the Pirates for the last 10 years. How much more patience are fans supposed to have?

- I'd also then take any of the left over pitchers and see if they can be packaged and traded for some good position players. Take your pick since they need a 1B, SS, 3B, LF, RF

They picked up McGehee to platoon at 1B or take over for Pedro if he fails, so cross off 1B and 3B until further review.

They signed Barmes so cross off SS. Barmes is a good to Very Good SS....defensively and offensively. Are there better....way.

Tabata in LF at the start of the season and Presly in RF. If 1 falters, McL gets first shot. If that doesn't work......Heeeeerreeee's Marte!!!

Could the PBC use a 1B like Lee.....definitely, but don't hold ur breathe.

If anything, they give Hague a shot.....deservedly so.

C'mon Man

pghsportsfan,

That does make having that number of people easier. At least they aren't drafting Moskos, Bullington, JVB etc anymore. Sanchez could very well end up in that category though.

burgh1972,

Im all about the Pirates spending more money. But they are not the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, or Angels. They cannot hide there mistakes as easily as those clubs can.

AJ Burnett was 34-35 with the Yankees. Yeah, he pitched in the AL East, but he also had the benefit of a great offense. The Pirates dont have that. things. People look at his innings pitched and his durabilty. He's 35. Did you ever think the yankees are getting out of this while he's still healthy?

Again, does AJ Burnett make the Pirates that much better?... Im sorry, but I dont think Burnett, Barajas, Barmes and Bedard is that much better than Maholm, Snyder/Mckenry, Cedeno, and Lincoln. It may cost more and they might get above 70 wins, but are we really going to compete? And im not defending the latter, but these "scraps" from other teams are not necessarily the answer either.

buccs1960

Moskos was a NH draft...he passed on the very highly rated catcher who was subsequently drafted by the Orioles.

Continue to "show me the money".

"maybe Oswalt reconsiders if he sees Burnett in Pittsburgh."

I'm sure that will happen

bpn8pitt

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Sure, the Yankees would love to get Jones in return as he's at least as good as Chavez or Damon at this point. It would kill two birds with one stone for them. The Pirates, on the other hand, have no incentive to give up Jones as there seems to be other pitchers available to them, like Blanton maybe, who they could theoretically get without giving up Jones for sure. There's not a lot of teams willing to take on salary right now, and that plays in the Pirates favor for this particular deal.

I actually think we're in agreement. I just don't think this trade will happen. As you said, if you're the Yankees, the Pirates make sense if you can kill two birds with one stone by dumping some of Burnett's salary AND getting a decent DH. But if you aren't getting a DH in the process, what's the point of trading him ... especially if you have to eat part of his salary? I don't see the Yanks doing this deal without Jones involved, and I don't see the Pirates giving up Jones for a 35 year old pitcher with a >5 ERA.

pghsportfan,

Actually he was a DL draft pick. That is my point. The current FO is doing a better job of drafting players than the DL team was.

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 09:52 AM
Roger,

You seem to be looking for an argument. The FO supporters are in favor of the trade if it is a good one. What does that mean? It means go for it as long as they aren't giving up too good of a prospect. So I guess the FO supporters want the same exact thing you do, but yet you criticize them.

Ah, wrong again!

In the past, FO supporters have defended Nuttings cheap ways, treating his nickles like manhole covers.

-Dont Spend Money!
-Dont make any Trades!
-It isnt following The Plan (TM)!!


So now you are telling me any FO supporter will do a 180, and approve this potential trade??

If pointing out these facts is looking for an argument, so be it.

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 10:23 AM
pghsportfan, Actually he was a DL draft pick. That is my point. The current FO is doing a better job of drafting players than the DL team was.

My bad. Guess my memory is worse than I thought!

They picked up McGehee to platoon at 1B or take over for Pedro if he fails, so cross off 1B and 3B until further review.

They signed Barmes so cross off SS. Barmes is a good to Very Good SS....defensively and offensively. Are there better....way.

Tabata in LF at the start of the season and Presly in RF. If 1 falters, McL gets first shot. If that doesn't work......Heeeeerreeee's Marte!!!

Could the PBC use a 1B like Lee.....definitely, but don't hold ur breathe.

If anything, they give Hague a shot.....deservedly so.

Each any everyone of those players would be a backup/bench player for the Cardinals/Reds. So upgrades are needed.

The Yankees evidently felt good enough about Burnett that they started him in Game 4 of the playoff series against Detroit--he got the win, btw.

written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 10:16 AM


buccs1960

Moskos was a NH draft...he passed on the very highly rated catcher who was subsequently drafted by the Orioles.

Continue to "show me the money".




In 2007, Moskos was drafted by Dave Littlefield, not N.H.

jasonpkerr

I know, see retraction, above!

written by Edgybear, February 13, 2012 - 07:15 AM
My 1st impression was 'no way - no how'. Having a son-in law who is a Yankee fan I have watched him. He seemed fragile in the psych department.

He's definitely fragile in the psych department. When one of the Yankees pitches coaches had to leave the team for personal reasons last year -- his performance fell off a cliff.

That's why getting him for peanuts and coddling him a bit, er, coddling him a lot, could work out. He's been healthy and has talent.

Sorry, I was behind!

I have no problems exploring a Burnett trade provided we are not giving up good or even decent prospects in return.

If we want to travel down the road of adding a pricey veteran why not look at Wandy Rodriguez. Guy makes the same amount as Burnett and went 11-11 on a team that lost 106 games last year and posted a 3.49 ERA.

Its been said the Astros are willing to eat a good sum of his salary as well. He seems like he would be worth exploring just as much as Burnett.

I'm not wrong Roger. The FO supporters want to make the trade. The FO supporters are not against making trades either. They aren't even against spending money. All of these things are things you think they are saying but they are not saying any of them. That is you trying to stir up trouble.

Let me point out the reality to you.

They don't want to spend money foolishly. They aren't against spending money though. Giving Edwin jackson 15 million a year they would have been against. 10 million they are in favor. Point one of yours wrong.

Point two about trades. They don't want to mortgage the future for anyone. They do advocate trading C level prospects, just not the Marte Taillon, Cole types. Point two proven to be false.

They are all over this trade advocating for it. Sites like Bucsdugout Piratesrospects and whygavs, (all pirate propaganda sites according to those here) are all advocating for this trade.

You are posting that stuff simply to pot-stir. You pointed out zero facts and all falsehoods, so yes you are trying to start arguments.

Speaking of draft picks and general managers. I wonder how incompetent Dave Littlefield really was?

On one hand, he may have had only X amount of money to spend but....

On the other hand, even with less money than N.H. has today, how do you draft a relief pitcher in the first round and declare him an end of the rotation guy? Also, with limited resources, how do you draft for Matt Morris and his 10 million salary?

My support of N.H. hasn't changed much. He has made some mistakes but I see him as the onle positive in the mess that is the front office and ownership. I think he has done well with what he has to work with.

written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 10:05 AM

written by LetsgoBucs, February 13, 2012 - 10:01 AM
The barren farm is in much better shape now after 4 years of drafting now management is starting to address the ML team. The plan is right on schedule it's just not happening as fast as many would like. A little more patience is needed.

Why is it that posters who are n luv wit Mr. N forget that the Nutting family has "owned" the Pirates for the last 10 years. How much more patience are fans supposed to have?

I don't wish to be drawn into another silly argument over this but do yourself a favor and learn the facts. Bob Nutting took over complete control of the team 4 years ago.

* trade for Matt Morris

The Yankees evidently felt good enough about Burnett that they started him in Game 4 of the playoff series against Detroit--he got the win, btw.

Excellent point, heartbeat.

I don't understand how Pirate fans, of all people, could think this guy wouldn't improve their rotation.

And if it's money, too bad. This is the going rate for even a bottom of the rotation starter that can give you 180 innings a year. Tough.

jasonpkerr

My memory (which I question) of the Matt Morris pickup by DL is: sports writers and talk show hosts thought that DL was trying to stick it to the PBC, because he had already saw the handwriting on the wall re: his termination.

LetsgoBucs

The definition of "control", relative to a corporation or partnership is 51% ownership. It is not "complete control".

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 10:33 AM
I'm not wrong Roger. The FO supporters want to make the trade. The FO supporters are not against making trades either. They aren't even against spending money. All of these things are things you think they are saying but they are not saying any of them. That is you trying to stir up trouble.

Then why do FO supporters on this blog not want to make this trade? Fat Jimmy comes to mind, but there are others.

They don't want to spend money foolishly. They aren't against spending money though. Giving Edwin jackson 15 million a year they would have been against. 10 million they are in favor. Point one of yours wrong.

Nice strawman here. You, and everyone else knows that Jackson wouldnt come here for $10MM a year. So you would be in favor of a deal you know would never happen? LOL

Point two about trades. They don't want to mortgage the future for anyone. They do advocate trading C level prospects, just not the Marte Taillon, Cole types. Point two proven to be false.

And exactly who on earth would we get in return for a "C" level prospect??? LOL

You are posting that stuff simply to pot-stir. You pointed out zero facts and all falsehoods, so yes you are trying to start arguments.

And you, and your 500 screen names have never done that in the past?? LOL

Do not try to change your spots now. People like you have protected Nuttings wallet for years, now you want to flip-flop?

You havent proven anything to me except you, the original pot-stirrer has amnesia.

I am done with you, Bob doesnt like the back-and-forth.
Good day.

I have heard that as well, but that being said, if he ever wanted to work in baseball again, why do that?

I think the man was an idiot personally. But it is hard to judge based off of what he had to spend.

Because it appears that this is going to be a deal that primarily involves money and perhaps a mid-level prospect...doesn't this essentially equate to a free agent signing?

If that's the case, I'm at best "OK" with this deal. It's just money, and the Pirates have enough of it. They were ready to give Edwin Jackson $10M a year; why not throw money at Burnett?

Some would argue they would rather see a young guy in there than a washed up veteran being held here against his will.

I'm the opposite...I'd rather see a guy with a track record go out there, because there's a higher probability he might actually succeed.

If Burnett goes out and fails, you can say, "it was worth a shot."

If Lincoln goes out and fails, you say, "Did we blow a draft pick on this guy?"

You have to take the handcuffs off eventually, but Lincoln hasn't blown anyone away in his time here. This is the right play.

Jason

I think that you answered you own question!

NMR

Forget the money and forget that its AJ Burnett...If you take a .500 pitcher from the 2nd best offense in baseball, and 10th rated defense and put him on the 27th best offense and 19th rated defense, will he still pitch at .500 level? I say no. My stats rankings come from cnnsi.com

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs...r-burnett/

I am a FO supporter (for the time being). And I like the idea of acquiring AJB.

written by bpn8pitt, February 13, 2012 - 10:48 AM



NMR

Forget the money and forget that its AJ Burnett...If you take a .500 pitcher from the 2nd best offense in baseball, and 10th rated defense and put him on the 27th best offense and 19th rated defense, will he still pitch at .500 level? I say no. My stats rankings come from cnnsi.com


Take a look at Kevin Correia's second half numbers and let me know how you feel about A.J.

written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 10:42 AM

LetsgoBucs

The definition of "control", relative to a corporation or partnership is 51% ownership. It is not "complete control".

As of 4 years ago Nutting owned over 75 % of the team and controlled 5 of the 6 board seats. What Nutting now wants to do with the Pirates gets done. That's complete control...that was't the case 5 years ago.

bpn8pitt

The "Pirates fans" think that since Burnett won't be facing AL East batters he will drastically lower his ERA, thus winning more games. The problem is, they don't realize that Burnett will have many fewer runs to work with since the Pirates can't score!

LetsgoBucs:

What g;e did the Nutting family own 5 years ago, 6 years ago, 7 yreas ago, etc.? Can you please provide those numbers for me? Thank you!

Roger,

Fatjimmy is actually in favor of trading for Burnett if they are trading a C level prospect.

I'm not making a strawman argument that is exactly what you are doing. That is all you ever do. Then when you are proven wrong you whine and insult people. Then you whine some more when Bob deletes your insults.

Clearly you don't even know what a C level prospect is. Teams include those guys in deals all the time.

I clearly disproved your pot-stirring ways and you don't like it and all of your pot stirring buddies have stayed away as well.

The 10 million for Jackson was a fair offer as is a 12 mill. 15 mill would be ridiculous.

I guess the difference between a pro and you is a pro actually knows how to improve a club and you know how to criticize blindly. I am done with you. Have fun stirring the pot.

Then why do FO supporters on this blog not want to make this trade? Fat Jimmy comes to mind, but there are others.

I don't like Burnett; I do like Garrett Jones. As I wrote above, if they can get Burnett for a C-level prospect, I'm all for the trade.

LetsgoBucs

meant g;e. fingers too fat

LetsgoBucs:

What g;e did the Nutting family own 5 years ago, 6 years ago, 7 yreas ago, etc.? Can you please provide those numbers for me? Thank you!

3rd time, finally got it correct

LetsgoBucs

I don't know what is going on. I type percentage, using the sign and the blog translates it to g:e. I guess you can't use signs when posting here

Whats the quote...something about history repeating itself?

I hear Matt Morris is free.

Everyone read this article.....


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs...r-burnett/

WHY NOT???
Because our front office does not have the skills to really make a trade difference to really improve the pirates to a .500 team much less a playoff team.
Because our owner will not pay any stars that emerge going forward, as he/board/front office seem very happy with status quo...
PIRATES FANS BOYCOTT 2012 SEASON DON'T GO TO THE GAMES...
David

written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 10:57 AM

LetsgoBucs:

What g;e did the Nutting family own 5 years ago, 6 years ago, 7 yreas ago, etc.? Can you please provide those numbers for me? Thank you!

3rd time, finally got it correct

Bob Nutting= the Nutting family. I thought that was a given.

@bpn8pitt

Sorry if I can't agree that maybe spending 6-7 mill for this and next year will wreck the Pirates. That's just not reality.

I don't think the guy will come in here and win Cy Youngs the next two years or automatically make the Pirates WS contenders, but he gives them a durable power arm that I see as an improvement.

If it's a stand alone move by the Pirates then yes, it won't make that much of a difference. But if it's one of a couple moves to improve the team then that's a good thing.

But I don't know if it's good to say they shouldn't do a move just because it doesn't fix all their issues at one time.

Each any everyone of those players would be a backup/bench player for the Cardinals/Reds. So upgrades are needed

He would start on the Reds, Furcal is on the decline. I'll take Barmes thank you.

Who is the SS for the Reds?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/depth/_/name/cin/cincinnati-reds

If we want to travel down the road of adding a pricey veteran why not look at Wandy Rodriguez. Guy makes the same amount as Burnett and went 11-11 on a team that lost 106 games last year and posted a 3.49 ERA.

Its been said the Astros are willing to eat a good sum of his salary as well. He seems like he would be worth exploring just as much as Burnett.

Yea, and can you say....top-tier-prospects in return. The Astros have already stated as much! So forget that.

-------

Right now, this is the best that is gonna happen.

As far as Blanton goes, he is coming off elbow/shoulder problems, so they don't know if he's actually healthy.

Lannan, meh, the PBC doesn't need another pitch-to-contact SP. They need someone who can miss bats.

LetsgoBucs:

Let me try this again. Could you please provide me with the percentage of ownership that the Nutting family had during years 5 thru 10? Thank you.

Wackywoodworker,

I would be interested in Wandy. How high end a prospect are you tlking for him. I certainly would be willing to give up guys after the top 6 for him. You put him and Burnett in the rotation and the Pirates move up into the above average area.

...
written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 11:08 AM

LetsgoBucs:

Let me try this again. Could you please provide me with the percentage of ownership that the Nutting family had during years 5 thru 10? Thank you.

The Nutting involvement in the team started with a 2 million dollar investment in 1996. It has increased over the years until 1997 when it was reported they held over 75 % of the team. What is your point?

LGB - nice article. and i am for the trade. but if anyone thinks this team is a 75 to 80 win team this year with or without burnett is really fooling themselves.

like the article said, the trade does not bring the pirates anywhere near contention, but it does move the needle a little. i'll take that. I still do not think he does very well with a very poor batting team. he was surrounded by the yankees lineup last year and still struggled. even if he gets his mind right and pitches wonderfully he still has to deal with a poor batting team and a not so great defensive team. I do not think the NL central is as weak as everyone is claiming. yes players that harrassed the pirates are gone, but overall i think it will be just as competitive and we'll be hanging in the cellar as always.

it is a win/win/win/win for the bucs really. win in that they can shut up their critics that they did not spend. win that they can keep feeding the faithful that they are trying really really really hard. win that if he does poorly, it does not matter because this team is BAD to begin with. And a final win if he does well they SHOULD use him as trade bait.

again i want to repeat, this is not a 75-80 win team. I would bet the family fortune on it. but the trade is a no lose situation.

I would be interested in Wandy also BUT.......

Taillon, Cole, and Bell.....2 out of 3 would have to go for him.

The Astros ain't gonna give him away and they want to upgrade their Minors.

Just think......Gio Gonzalez trade! Forget about Wandy. It would be nice tho.

The Nutting involvement in the team started with a 2 million dollar investment in 1996. It has increased over the years until 1997 when it was reported they held over 75 % of the team. What is your point?written by LetsgoBucs, February 13, 2012 - 11:16 AM

My point is this: The Nutting family has had "control" of the PBC for more than 4 years. Your numbers, above prove that. Therefore when discussing that only the last four years count re: the PBC under the guidance of RN is incorrect!

@johnharding....I don't think anyone is fooling themselves to think Burnett makes them a contender. Hopefully he helps them improve/ be more completive and also provides a bridge until the young pitchers develop.

I'm still not counting my chickens...... this trade hadn't been consumated yet.

Well peeps,

Its been nice. Hopefully by the time I check back in this evening, Burnett will be a Bucco.

Have a good 1

I don't think it would take anywhere near that much for Wandy. I think you could get him for a package that included 2 or 3 of the following: Grossman, Mcpherson, Locke, Owens, Sanchez, Kingham, ZVR, Cain.

They know they can't get a Taillon, or Cole for Wandy. Gio is as good as Wandy and he didn't net anyone as good as either Taillon or Cole.

written by pghsportsfan, February 13, 2012 - 11:23 AM

The Nutting involvement in the team started with a 2 million dollar investment in 1996. It has increased over the years until 1997 when it was reported they held over 75 % of the team. What is your point?written by LetsgoBucs, February 13, 2012 - 11:16 AM


My point is this: The Nutting family has had "control" of the PBC for more than 4 years. Your numbers, above prove that. Therefore when discussing that only the last four years count re: the PBC under the guidance of RN is incorrect!

pghsportsfan either you aren't willing to comprend what I said or you are incapable. What I told you is common knowledge. Either way I am not going to get into another stupid argument about this subject. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself. Goggle is your friend.... use it.

"The Yankees evidently felt good enough about Burnett that they started him in Game 4 of the playoff series against Detroit--he got the win, btw."

If I remember the Yankees used him only because of a rainout. There was debate about keeping him on the playoff roster to start with

Let's go Bucs,

Bob Nutting is one of the worst owners of all of sports. I hate him. He has no business being in baseball because he either doesn't have the cash or refuses to spend it.

pghsportsfan is trying to tell you that Bob Nutting did not control the Pirates until 4 years ago. He was a minority owner and therefore did not run the club. Just because he made an initial investment does not mean he had control. Only until 4 years ago did he gain control of the team.

So what pghsportfan is trying to tell you is that if you want to slam him for the past 4 years go ahead. But to go back 10 years and pin this mess solely on him is not accurate. I can buy shares in General Electric and not be in control of the company or its decisions.

@bpn

You just can't look at the game of baseball that simplistically.

If that was the case, then you're saying that the only pitchers out there we can expect to win more with the Pirates are ones that come from less offensive teams, right? H*ll, why even bother trying to pick up anybody then?

Saying Burnett won't win more with the Pirates because the Yankees score more is about as accurate as comparing Matt Morris to AJ Burnett.

Oh wait...

He became the 6th principal owner in Pirates history in 2007.

He served as chairman of the board and represented his family interests since 2003.

Burnett has not been very good with New York. However if you look at sports history, there are countless examples of good, even great players who flop in NY. They either can't handle the pressure of playing in that city or can't stay disciplined in the face of numerous distractions.

The name Kenny Rogers comes to mind. Pretty consistent 15 wins per year pitcher his entire career, except with the Yankees where he really struggled.

There is no way of knowing for sure whether this is the case with Burnett...he might simply be trending downward. That said, what do the Pirates have to lose?

If the price is reasonable and he's physically healthy, it seems like a sensible calculated risk.

@jasonpkerr & Letsgobucs: It been pretty well established that the Nutting family were the money behind Kevin McClatchey from the moment the boy wonder took control of the franchise. The stake increased over the years, but McClatchy had little or no cash to invest himself. Whenever there was a bump in the road, the Nuttings put up the cash to keep the franchise moving forward.

It is very much in debate how much say G Ogden or Bob asserted over the years, but it's pretty clear that as their financial stake increased, so did their influence over the club's operation. At the very least, they probably exercised veto power over important or expensive decisions.

So, to my mind, they own a large stake of the blame for the franchise's poor performance since it was sold to McClatchy.

Jason
You have it backwards. Pghsports fan (by the way, we are not related!) is saying that while Bob Nutting has been in complete control since 2007, his family has been in control for far longer. We CAN blame Nutting for this mess for much longer than 2003.

Oops, meant 2007. We can blame him back to at least 2003.

He stated 1997, not 2003.

2003 perhaps, not 1997.

heartbeatsings,

I respect your opinion, but you, as I, have no proof of that. You just assume. I am going by who was the principal owner.

I suppose we can go back to 2003, as he was chairman of the board. But to go back to 1997 and blame Nutting is incorrect. Some would argue that going back to 2003 is incorrect.

I suppose we can go back to 2003, as he was chairman of the board. But to go back to 1997 and blame Nutting is incorrect. Some would argue that going back to 2003 is incorrect.

Can we get back to the trade please? this 1997/2003/2007 stuff is just semantics. Any of those dates still includes nothing but losing baseball. Regardless of what line you draw for "NUTTING", the team has sucked 100% of seasons. Once or twice in there, the rest of the division has also sucked, but we've still been less than average.

If you believe that Burnett can improve this team, you should be in favor of his acquisition at a "decent" cost. You should be arguing what "decent" means to you.

gregenstein--

I think the monetary cost is flexible based on the personnel cost. I think if the Pirates were to give up Garrett Jones - and there are indications that he's off the table - then I would say the cost is too high, no matter how much money the Yankees eat.

Jones is obviously no great shakes, an average 1B at best; but the problem is the Pirates have no one else to play that position. That's Huntington's fault, to be sure, but that doesn't change the fact that Jones has a higher value to the Pirates than he does the Yankees.

So it comes to money and prospects. I don't proclaim to be an expert on the Pirates' farm system, but I would think as long as it doesn't include any of the players ranked in that Top-100 piece by Keith Law (Taillon, Cole, Marte, Bell, Grossman) or Heredia, then go ahead and throw one in. Maybe take on $16M total.

Cespedes has signed with the A's of all teams. So I guess bipolarman was wrong.

Source: Yoenis Cespedes has agreed to terms with the Oakland A's." - Olney

Reportedly 4 years, $36 million. So much for that garbage about him going to Pittsburgh.

Love the Nutting Discussion. Bottomline to me, it is beyond amazing how poorly his organization has done given his long history with the team. One would have to be trying not to win to have his performance record.
Profit wise, I am sure Nutting though has made a fantastic profit on his investment. Great for him and woe to the enabling Pirate Fans who attend the games. Boycott 2012 season don't go to the games
David

gregenstein--

I should throw in that if the Pirates eat $8M/year on Burnett, I'd hope that the prospect thrown in was a Single-A "maybe he will, maybe he won't" kind of guy. The better the prospect...I'd like to see that number float around to the "Pirates Cap" of $5M.

Anyone that knows the Nutting Regime (established in 1996) knows that there's really nothing to talk about regarding the Burnett trade.
If they pick him up....He'll pitch till July, and they'll trade him off for two Problem Prospects and a bag of nuts.
It won't matter how good or how bad he is doing.....He'll be gone.
All this talk of picking up a decent portion of his salary is as temporary as a freshly made hamburger coming out of the kitchen at Five Guys.
The Nutting Regime....Business as usual.....

SeanAy,

The more the Pirates have to eat on Burnett's contract the lesser the player they give up. The Pirates want to eat more and trade less. It isn't my money so I wouldn't be opposed to the Pirates paying half of Burnett's salary to trade away some type of longshot. Last year the Pirates traded away a C level prospect in Aaron Baker and landed Lee so it does happen.

If they pick him up....He'll pitch till July, and they'll trade him off for two Problem Prospects and a bag of nuts.
It won't matter how good or how bad he is doing.....He'll be gone.


Perhaps this tired old argument had some merit back in 08, but it doesn't hold water now. This team does the exact opposite of that now. They either hold onto the players you all say are as good as gone and let them walk via free agency. The other thing they do is flip them for actual talent. You would never let reality get in the way of good old fashioned vitriol now would you.

That left the Pirates with runners on first and second and one out, but what looked to be a big inning abruptly ended when Neil Walker lined out to left and Garrett Jones inexplicably took off and was doubled off second.

"That is not good baserunning," Hurdle said of Jones' decision.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg...1mHivumOE

I agree with those who say that we can't afford to give up Garrett Jones.

Who will we laugh at on the basepaths if both Jones and Cedeno are gone?

"written by FightingScot82, February 13, 2012 - 09:18 AM
BFD, this is further evidence that you actually don't bother to read anything about the Pirates. You just opine in a rather ignorant way spouting off the same crap. How can you stand being so cynical every day? Are you Ron Cook? "
----
Scott - how can you be so naive. Don't you bother looking at the standings each season. How can you be so ignorant to the way this organization is run? Are you Bill Nutting?

buccs1960--

The more the Pirates have to eat on Burnett's contract the lesser the player they give up. The Pirates want to eat more and trade less. It isn't my money so I wouldn't be opposed to the Pirates paying half of Burnett's salary to trade away some type of longshot. Last year the Pirates traded away a C level prospect in Aaron Baker and landed Lee so it does happen.

Obviously I agree with that...maybe I wasn't totally clear on that point.

Like many are so fond of saying...it's not my money, go ahead and spend it. I honestly think this is such a low risk move it doesn't really matter. And it could pay dividends in a few ways, if he pitches well:

1) He pitches well, stays with team, helps them win
2) He pitches well, is traded for more assets

Now, I would absolutely 100 percent prefer Option 1. Option 2 is the more likely scenario, given this team's track record, but I think it will depend on where the team's record is at the time.

Could it blow up? Sure. But signing Jackson could have blown up. Signing Oswalt (assuming the guy took their phone calls, that is) could blow up. Trading for Wandy Rodriguez could blow up.

What is it I always hear? "Don't live in free agent fear!"

This would essentially be a free agent signing. There are potential benefits and potential negatives. As Bob says, the pluses outweigh the negatives in making this trade.

I don't expect Burnett to do much of anything, honestly, but as Randall P. McMurphy once said, "But I tried, didn't I? Go****it, at least I did that."

SeanAY and NMR

Your right, in a way. Its low-risk, why not? But I think for some of us against this trade look at it as, Burnett's just not a good pitcher. And we've seen in the past, countless times in the last 20 years, whenever this team did spend or make a trade where they added payroll, its blown up in their face.
Derek Bell, Pat Mears, Jeromy Burnitz, trading for Matt Morris...It all comes down to what it costs. If its Garrett Jones or a decent minor leaguer or the Pirates have to take a sizable chunk of the salary, no thanks...And not to harp on this, but I just dont think this guy is that good. And I just dont think the Yankees are going to say " Here, take AJ Burnett and 20 million for one of your Adam Hyzdu's..." The didnt win all those World Series that way, guys.

Honestly it amazes me when I see people write something to the effect of "this won't magically make them contend, so why do it?" NOTHING they do right now will make them a contender. No single move that they could possibly make, even if they threw silly money at a top tier guy, would make this bunch a playoff contender.

However, that's not the right standard. If you aren't going to do anything because it won't make the team a contender, then the team will never become a contender. The right standard is: does this move improve the team, both now and for the future. If so, then do it.

In this case, you essentially are talking about replacing Correia with Burnett. Is that an improvement? Maybe. I posted above that I would not be surprise if Burnett puts up 10 wins or so with an ERA of 4-4.5 while pitching 200 innings. If that's about right, that's certainly an improvement over what Correia can be expected to do.

Is it too costly? I have trouble believing that the money they're talking about paying is problematic. Put another way, if it is, then they're never going to contend anyway. It boils down to what player(s) they'll have to give up to get it done. If it's a prospect, then do it (of course, don't give up Bell, Taillon or Cole, among others). If it's Jones, then probably not, but only because they lack an adequate replacement for him.

Certainly there's no guarantee with Burnett, but there's no guarantee with any move. He's not going to be a Cy Young candidate or anything, but he could improve the team. That's what they need to do. If you really believe that the pieces will be in place by 2015 or so, then the time to start impoving the team is NOW, not in 2-3 years. If you wait 2-3 years before starting to improve, that's too late. The years of control clock will be ticking on the newer guys, and that time will be wasted during the time it takes to add the pieces around them.

Your right, in a way. Its low-risk, why not? But I think for some of us against this trade look at it as, Burnett's just not a good pitcher. And we've seen in the past, countless times in the last 20 years, whenever this team did spend or make a trade where they added payroll, its blown up in their face.

bpn8pitt--

It's true, Burnett hasn't been a good pitcher these past two years. He's not even as good as the guy they let walk this past offseason (Maholm).

But look at that rotation right now: Karstens, MacDonald, Morton (injured), Correia, and Lincoln? You want to go to war with those guys as your rotation?

If nothing else, Burnett will chew up innings and rack up strikeouts. The Pirates don't have a single starting pitcher with the ability to do those things on their resume. Perhaps leaving NYC and the AL East will eliminate pressure and allow him to pitch better. Perhaps not.

It's a reclamation project; I certainly recognize that.

And I just dont think the Yankees are going to say " Here, take AJ Burnett and 20 million for one of your Adam Hyzdu's..." The didnt win all those World Series that way, guys.

This isn't a talent acquisition trade for the Yankees, at least per se. It's a salary dump, pure and simple. They want to be able to crawl under the luxury tax threshold and bring in someone like Eric Chavez or Johnny Damon to DH for them on the relative cheap. This is all about clearing space for that move.

Then, once they've spent a season or two under the luxury tax threshold, they are treated like first time offenders the next time they go over it. Instead of getting nailed with a 42-50 percent hit, they'll pay at a much lower rate.

In this case, the return on Burnett isn't important. It's getting rid of him for a cheaper option so they can spend later.

Fair enough, bpn. I certainly won't argue with opinion, which you're entitled to have. Heck, I don't even differ with you in thinking that the AJ Burnett of the last two years was crap.

AJ Burnett and Erik Bedard are the types of moves that the Pirates have to hit on. Period.

I know looking at 16 home runs from Jones is enticing on a team with such little power, but the guy produces far, far below average overall power numbers for a ML first baseman.

With that being said, I think it's great that NH is pushing to keep Jones while also getting Burnett.

I truly don't see a downside to getting a major leaguer without giving one up. Especially when contractual obligations will only last another year.

bpn8pitt,

And isn't it just possible that Burnett might not be one of the top 5 pitchers on the Yankees roster, but he would be on the Pirates roster. That would lead to the Pirates placing a very different value on Burnett than the Yankees do. The Yankees might well be relatively unlimited in terms of ability to spend money, but even they are limited to 25 players on the roster. Burnett just isn't good enough for their roster, but he would be here.

Make the move. Give up a B or C level prospect (maybe even 2 prospects) and pick up anywhere from 10 - 12 million on Burnett.

The question should not be will he save the team, but rather could he improve the team. The answer is yes. Regardless of who he may (or may not replace) in the current rotation, the team needs more starting pitchers who have the ability to miss the bat. He should be able to improve the team.

If he pitches well and can be traded for solid prospects, great. If he pitches well and stays for two years getting lots of wins, great. Either option helps the team.

SeanAY

Most people have posted on here that, hey if the Pirates can get Burnett for 5 million a year for the 2 years left on the deal, take it. And I agree with that. But that leaves the Yankees picking up 23 million, hardly a salary dump to get them under the luxury tax.

And the Yankees are looking for a LH DH, ie Garrett Jones. So like I said man, if this trade is for Garrett Jones or makes the Pirates pick up 20 million (at 10 million a year), no thanks...And I dont think Garrett Jones is good by any means. But I'll take him over Matt Hague and Casey McGhee.

I think everybody can agree if this trade goes down, its the cost that will determine its success. If the get Burnett for nothing Im with you. But if they end up paying 20 million the next two years, I think they could have done something else, maybe earlier in free agency.

Menkrick,

As I said above, if 2015 or so is the target date for guys like Bell, Taillon and Cole to get here, the time to start improving the MLB team is NOW, not in 2-3 years. Even if they acquire Burnett, and he works out, they might not have him at that time, but the might well be able to flip him for someone who would help them in 2015. You can't wait for the young guys to get here and then start improving the team around them. You need to improve while waiting for them so that they come into a situation where the team was halfway decent without them and they then improve the team to conteder status.

I can certainly understand cynicism regarding NH's handling of trades, but from the start, it sounds as though he's in the drivers seat on this one.

Yankees have been rumored to add more money, take Jones off the table, and lately even take a marginal pitching prospect(Nick Kingman) out of the equation as well.

Those are all concessions in the Pirates favor.

This isn't necessarily Burnett or bust either.

NH has been rumored to be talking about John Lannan and Joe Blanton as well.

SeanT,

The target date for those guys is way earlier than 2015, maybe not for Bell, but Cole will be up by 2013 and Taillon could be as well if not 2014 will be the latest.

He does help the team. Anytime you can make a deal that doesn't cost much interms of money, players or prospects and it actually helps the team you do it.

That is how the "pro" crowd rolls. They are in favor of spending money and making trades and veering off of the "plan" path. They only want to do that when it makes sense. Just a little difference between how "pros" view things and how some try to paint them.

NMR,

I would pass on Blanton. Lannon is Paul Maholm. I'm not surehow I would feel about getting him. I guess he's better than Correira too.

1960,

I agree completely, which is why I'm in favor of getting this Burnett trade done.

I would've rather seen NH been proactive earlier in the off season and not end up in this situation, period, but thats for another blog...

written by jasonpkerr, February 13, 2012 - 11:42 AM

Let's go Bucs,

pghsportsfan is trying to tell you that Bob Nutting did not control the Pirates until 4 years ago. He was a minority owner and therefore did not run the club. Just because he made an initial investment does not mean he had control. Only until 4 years ago did he gain control of the team.

So what pghsportfan is trying to tell you is that if you want to slam him for the past 4 years go ahead. But to go back 10 years and pin this mess solely on him is not accurate. I can buy shares in General Electric and not be in control of the company or its decisions.

jason you have it a$$ backwards...it should read.....

written by jasonpkerr, February 13, 2012 - 11:42 AM

Let's go Bucspghsportsfan,

pghsportsfan Letsgobucs is trying to tell you that Bob Nutting did not control the Pirates until 4 years ago. He was a minority owner and therefore did not run the club. Just because he made an initial investment does not mean he had control. Only until 4 years ago did he gain control of the team.

So what pghsportfan Letsgobucs is trying to tell you is that if you want to slam him for the past 4 years go ahead. But to go back 10 years and pin this mess solely on him is not accurate. I can buy shares in General Electric and not be in control of the company or its decisions.

Sean T -

I agree. I even said that if they could trade him for promising prospects great. However, if they don't trade him, but rather get a fair number of wins from him in the next two years that's pretty good to.

I want the FO to act on this trade and get it done. I think that this would help the team. I know that at least on paper it would help the rotation (hopefully on the field too).

buccs1960,

Whatever year is the target for contending, my point still stands. And I think 2015 is certainly a reasonable target for contending anyway, even if Cole gets here next year and Taillon in 2014. Do you really expect these guys to jump right in and become ace pitchers in their rookie years? I would think that they'd need a year or two MLB experience before you'd count on them to be studs.

In any case, though, my point was that it's much better to start improving the team now than it is to say, "this team's not going to be a contender for another 2-3 years, so why take any risks now?" You'd much rather have guys like Taillon, Cole and Bell jump onto a halfway decent team and turn that team into a contender than have them come into a crap team and make them decent. If you do the latter, then you'd have to spend the next few years adding pieces to make them a contender. By the time you do so, the six year "control window" might be about to expire and it's time to rebuild before you've gotten to the promised land.

SeanT,

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. My only difference is I think the team will contend before 2015. Taillon and Cole have such high ceilings that they very well could be Aces from the get go.

NMR,

I would rather have seen NH get something done sooner as well. He tends to stay too close to the vest. He needs to be a little more proactive and more creative.

He has proven to be decent in his trades, especially after an awful beginning. He has stepped it up in FA signings as well. His drafting looks solid and the International FA's have ben better. Now he needs to start with bold moves and that hasn't happened. That will probably be his ultimate demise. The Pirates very well may not contend until the year after he is fired.

Many of us on this blog, myself included, have guessed that there is a "magic number" that the Pirates must spend to avoid being punished as the Marlins were a few months back.

This may be why the Pirates are so publically going after more expensive players like Jackson and Burnett.

Wouldin't it be hysterical if the Pirates were unable to meet that number because they have been so bad that no one will take their money?

What could they do at that point, build another dominican baseball school?

@heartbeat

The MLB payroll floor is an actual number now established by the new CBA.

Your scenario is cute, but it would never happen.

There's a finite amount of jobs available in the MLB. Increasing the cash flow will only drive up the prices for lower tier FA's that the Pirates will be forced to overspend on.

Somebody will always be out there to collect a paycheck.

Just another reason why the new CBA is complete crap.

I really have no clue why Bob bothers to post a blog concerning the Pirates when the conversation immediately gets turned to NH or Nutting. I'm surprised Dick LeBeau or Bruce Arians hasn't been blamed yet.

Yes. I agree Burghman. It is very surprising that people blame the Nutting Families Cheapness and Neal's incompetence for the teams miserable failures.
These people obviously know nothing about baseball.

It is all about WAR numbers.

Oh yee of little faith.

Cole and Tallion will be battling it out for the Cy Young award in 2013, their first full season and it will be a 4 way battle once Herdenia or whatever his name is that they got from Mexico last year.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. My only difference is I think the team will contend before 2015. Taillon and Cole have such high ceilings that they very well could be Aces from the get go

You KNOW that pitchers with high upsides NEVER fail to live up to them. I mean look at Stetson Allie, oops....haven't heard much about him lately have we. Ok how about Zack Von Rosenberg....oops, another bad example. Well, you know what I mean.

OOps the 4 way battle should have been a 3 way battle....TYPO

I am shocked (not) that Cespedes listed the 6 teams courting him and the Pirates were not one of them. Guess they are counting on Burnett's salary to get them above the floor instead of $9 mil per on Cespedes.

NMR--

Are you sure there's an actual salary floor? I don't think that was actually established.

There's the presumed "hidden" salary floor, but I don't think it was codified into the CBA.

Also, I find it funny that the very moment Burghman bemoaned his point, the very next response was exactly what he was complaining about.

@SeanAY

Wasn't it established that teams must spend something in the range of 25% more than the welfare checks they take in?

If I made that up completely, I'm scaring myself.

@Bob you know I would be the first person to call you out for a hatchet job on the Pirates (I’ve done it many times) but I think today’s blog entry is a pretty fair and well thought out piece.

Not that you need my approval but good job.

written by NMR, February 13, 2012 - 05:01 PM

@SeanAY

Wasn't it established that teams must spend something in the range of 25% more than the welfare checks they take in?

If I made that up completely, I'm scaring myself.

There is no offical salary floor. The union doesn't want one.

NMR--

I don't know. That figure is a possibility. I just didn't see anything about a salary floor, specifically. I do remember hearing language about playing hardball with the spending of the revenue sharing checks.

From a piece in the Yale Daily News:

There are also new rules for revenue sharing under which teams receiving funds will be required to put up payrolls at least 25 percent higher than the sum they receive from the league.

So there you go. NMR is right.

Yankees, Pirates still talking A.J. Deal likely to get done w/Bucs paying $13-15M of $33M, & giving up 2 non-roster guys" - Heyman

written by SeanAY, February 13, 2012 - 05:18 PM

From a piece in the Yale Daily News:


There are also new rules for revenue sharing under which teams receiving funds will be required to put up payrolls at least 25 percent higher than the sum they receive from the league.


So there you go. NMR is right.

This is true but there still isn't a hard number salary floor. IE.... every club has to spend X amount of dollars.

@SeanAy

Bemoaned? Nah don't think so. I just find all of the comments like a broken record and you guys act like the comments will actually make something happen. Just a waste of time and space posting anything about the Pirates because no matter what it is; it eventually turns into a blame on NH or Bob Nutting.

Instead of the brilliant ideas of boycotting Pirate games this year I would start a petition asking Bob to stop wasting blog space with articles on the Pirates. Or if he does just copy and paste the comments from the previous article on the Pirates as they are essentially the same.

I haven't read all the other comments so mine may not be entirely original.

There is no doubt that the Bucs can afford Burnett. But I'm not so certain his upside is as rosy as some believe.

I find it remarkable that playing for the Yankees who won 295 games in his three years, Burnett himself had 34 wins.

In contrast, over the same period, Correia has the same amount of wins with teams that won a total of 237 games, and only one team with a winning record. Yet Correia has been a .500 pitcher opr better each of those years while Burnett was below .500 the past two.

In addition, Correia in that time had a lower ERA, pretty comparable WHIP and has shown better control based on BB and WP and a slightly lower HR/9 innins ratio.

That's not to elevate Correia, but to show that Burnett may not be an improvement. That is three straight years of declining production to worry about, especially when a pitcher has the team support of the Yankees.

Bemoaned? Nah don't think so. I just find all of the comments like a broken record and you guys act like the comments will actually make something happen.

Not me, brotha. I'm totally in agreement with you. I thought we had pretty good baseball talk for the most part today, but 90 percent of the time it devolves into name-calling and rote repetition of tired old lines.

@SeanAy

Couldn't agree with you more. This board is like clock work.

Pirates blog = NH and nutting bashing
Steelers blog = Arians and LeBeau bashing or that Tomlin speaks better than he coaches