The negative, that the majority of players are ranked highly based on enormous ceilings rather than performance in the professional ranks, will certainly be mentioned (and there's no denying that). However the upside is that the Pirates have never had this many high ceiling talents in their system.

Even in 1997, when the Pirates system was last highly ranked they had a collection of talent that more closely resembled the Padres system this year, a bunch of guys who projected to be Major Leaguers but lacked the high ceiling.

The Pirates system has three guys who have the potential to be true #1 starters (Cole,Taillon, Heredia) which is incredibly rare.

Prospects projection is far from a science, they can fail for all sorts of reasons. It's worth taking a look at what went wrong in 1997 to determine the probability of that occurring again. If memory serves three of the biggest failings were rushing positions players to the Majors (Jose Guillen, Aramis Ramirez), advancing players through the system based on production rather than mastery of skill sets (hit off speed pitching for instance) in the case of Chad Hermansen, and a number of pitchers who had serious injuries (this could be coincidence but there's enough of pattern to suggest they may not have handled their pitchers properly).

There are lot of valid criticisms that could be directed at the front office but aside from Pedro Alvarez they haven't shown a tendency to rush players and they've certainly been more than careful with their pitching prospects. While there will undoubtably be failure amongst this group the greater upside and improved developmental approach increases the chances of success.

Why do people still care about these ridiculous rankings. The Pirates could have all 101 players on this list AND THE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM WOULD STILL STINK!!! I wish people would stop going to the ballpark for fireworks, bobbleheads and concerts. I wish the P-G and other media outlets would completely ignore the worst organization in sports and maybe, just maybe, the Nuttings would get the hint and put a winning team on the Major League field or, better yet, JUST GO AWAY!!!!!

When reading this stuff, I go by the old theory..

"Bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush"

With that said, who cares whats in the minors. No guarantee they will perform well in MLB.
Where did Pedro rank on these lists when he was in the minors? I'm sure he was on it!!! and what has he done!!

Baseball is such an individual sport... meaning...
for hitters you look at the players Average, OBP, etc.... a "team" can't help you... that is individual.
for pitchers, ERA, stikeouts... a "team" can't help a pitcher.. that is the individual.
fielding has some team aspects to it.. but that's about it.... the rest is about individual talent... 1v1.

When does baseball season start

4 of the 6 were drafted/signed within the past 2 years because the Pirates have been so terrible at the major league level.

Marte was signed before NH, and Grossman is the only "above slot" signing that has shown any real promise.

Thus, despite all of the major leaguers NH traded away, all of the high draft picks, all of the above-slot signings, I can only give NH credit for getting two right----signing Heredia and drafting Grossman.

This piece speaks more to what a terrible job NH has done as opposed to something to be excited about. Exactly one of the six has played above "A" ball.

Call me when this potential translates into wins at the major league level.

...

...the potential to be true #1 starters (Cole,Taillon, Heredia) which is incredibly rare

Almost as rare as having 19 consecutive losing seasons. (not to mention making a profit while doing that.)

Of course nothing is that rare, since the Pirates are the only major North American professional sports team to EVER do that.

...

just maybe, the Nuttings would get the hint and put a winning team on the Major League field

You people are so naive.

What would be the incentive for the Nuttings to do that?

They are making money the way they are operating. MLB is not on their case to change.

People go to the park.

They have a nasty president who slaps down innkeepers who offer promotions, or bloggers who call for a government investigation.

Again, what would be the incentive for the Nuttings to change what they are doing?

written by BenRulz, February 13, 2012 - 06:51 PM
Why do people still care about these ridiculous rankings.

because they're baseball fans? because its still winter and that's what baseball fans do every winter?

Littlefield had similar opportunites to draft the best on the boards and he failed time and again. So far, NH deserves some credit for drafting and developing some high end talent. Of course, the yahoos who read the blog won't admit that the Pirates are doing anything right.

as someone above mentioned, all of these rankings are based on POTENTIAL, not anything they have done.

anyhow, I think I will celabrate by eating a corn dog

NorthsideBuick -- You can use the 1960 commemorative stein that had the wrong score.

Or maybe Eric Fryer Cup Night. You could put your ice cream in that. Just hope it is not a used one.

Wee Wee,

I got the stein, but I use it to hold up my broken "Fire and Ice" figurine.

If the Pirates had a MLB win for each of these meaningless minor league reviews, they would...well..OK..they would still suck!

@northsidebuick:

any date for the Ceramic Corndog Night??

==================================================

Look, this is good news. I mean the minors have stunk for so long.
But I dont see how this ranking, or any ranking translates to a single win this year.
And why only 6 top prospects??
I thought the FO fans always tout the "guaranteed 125 sure-fire HOF prospects", at all levels of the minors?

I too am going to celebrate this by eating a corndog.
Then I am going to buy a 6-pak at the Stroll Inn.

This is why Roger gives the anti crowd a bad name. No one ever says anything about the minors having one sure fire HOF'er let alone 125.

WWW gives a fair criticism about the system. I mean it would not have been impossible for this team to have 8-10 guys on this list with a better GM. Many of the over-slot guys have been underwhelming.

@bob what's even more boffo is that it is actually 6 in the top 76 players.

buccs1960,

Your comments on the Pirates have been some of the most objective on this site. Thanks for the level-headed insight.

@Bob your title should read.....

More high marks for Pirate system....managements plan is starting to show promise.

If only being rated a good minor league system would lead to big league success. The Pirates would have been major players in the baseball world over the last decade with all the minor league love they get from year to year. To bad its much, much more complicated in winning in the big leagues.

You have to cultivate talent- yes. You also have to hang onto it, nuture it, keep it when it blossoms and then get some free agent pieces to finish the puzzle. All the while keeping it moving forward as the pieces come together.

Impressive seeds don't mean a thing when half the seeds get washed away and the other half get taken to anothers garden for the picking. 19 years of a really good farm system tells us as much.

written by buccs1960, February 13, 2012 - 08:46 PM

WWW gives a fair criticism about the system. I mean it would not have been impossible for this team to have 8-10 guys on this list with a better GM. Many of the over-slot guys have been underwhelming.

I agree that it is disappointing that Colt Cain, Zack Von Rosenberg, and other over-slot draft picks have not yet performed well enough to be considered for a Top 100 prospect list.

I also noticed that Miguel Sano is pretty high on the list in this story. The Pirates should not have let him get away.

But I am encouraged that the team does have 6 of the top 76 prospects in baseball.

BiPolar - I promised that I would let you know when Cespides signed, and he is officially a member of the Oakland A's.
It seems the Nutting Regime were never in the running.
Wonder why?
By the way....You were wrong.

Daquido,

Yes. I was wrong. How wonderful! Apparently, I think just like Billy Beane.

The most brilliant Sabrmetric mind of them all made the best and most stunning move of the entire off-season. If the Pirates couldn't get Cespedes, then I am pleased to see that Beane did.

You miss the point....You spoke for the Nutting Regime, not Billy Beane.
I told you the Nutting Regime was too cheap to sign Cespedes.
On topic....I was right, you were wrong.

By the way folks.....Follow Daquido_Bazzini Productions on Twitter @Daquido_Bazzini

Books, music and products coming soon!

Funny how Bundy ranked ahead of Cole. Same with Machado and Taillon. The Pirates didn't get Cespedes, talk was cheaper than action again.

I love how no one wants to give credit to NH for the draft picks because the team was so bad and drafted high.

Shouldn't the guy get some credit considering the 10 years worth of horrible drafts before him?

Daquido,

Yes. I was wrong. How wonderful! Apparently, I think just like Billy Beane - and not Neal Huntington.

Littlefield was so bad that they hired his former assistant. Unfortunately other teams don't settle for the "better than Littlefield" standard.

Didn't you claim the Pirates would fork out more money than he got from Beane?

Baseball Fan,

I claimed that the Pirates would sign Cespedes for 6 years and $48 million. Beane signed him for 4 years and $36 million. So, overall, yes, I said that the Pirates would spend more on the entire length of a deal. But Beane gave him $9 million perseason, whereas I said the Pirates would pay $8 million perseason.

I think Beane made a billiant move by waiting to see that the Marlins had made an offer for 6 years and under $40 million. He then came in and offered almost the same amount of money as Miami, but for fewer years.

It seems that Cespedes was attracted by the idea of being able to become a free agent - again - in four years rather than 6. I would have loved to see the Pirates do that, but, as I said above, since they didn't, I am pleased that Beane did. I like his Sabrmetric way of doing things.

"The Cubs are expected to add 19-year-old outfielder Jorge Soler after acquiring 19-year-old pitcher Gerardo Concepcion, according to multiple reports from the Dominican Republic, where Soler is staying." - Chicago Tribune

Some of you anti-Pirate people are just haters who want attention. If the Pirates were ranked as the worst minor league system in baseball you'd be complaining about it. Now the Pirates have some hope in the minors, that's a good thing.

Not the fault of Pirates fans fault that the big Cespedes talk from the FO groupie fell flat so stop kissing up to him.

@wee willies comment about having drafted so high the past 2 years. Just remember the Rays were perennial top of the board drafters. They even drafted #1 overall in 2008 when they went to the World Series. And have remained at the top of the rankings due to the players they stockpiled. It's a long shot to go from so bad to so good but it has been done. If we start winning, no one will care we have a a bunch of players we only have cause we drafted high each year. We don't care about that as Pens fans do we?

Littlefield was sooo bad that it would've been a nightmare for any new GM to take over. If we fire NH now the next guy might not be any better but he'll reap the benefits of these top prospects. So we might as well give a little more slack but be fully aware the end of the rope is approaching.

written by Richard Jarzynka www.BIPOLARMAN.org, February 13, 2012 - 11:59 PM

Baseball Fan,

I claimed that the Pirates would sign Cespedes for 6 years and $48 million. Beane signed him for 4 years and $36 million. So, overall, yes, I said that the Pirates would spend more on the entire length of a deal. But Beane gave him $9 million perseason, whereas I said the Pirates would pay $8 million perseason.

I think Beane made a billiant move by waiting to see that the Marlins had made an offer for 6 years and under $40 million. He then came in and offered almost the same amount of money as Miami, but for fewer years.

It seems that Cespedes was attracted by the idea of being able to become a free agent - again - in four years rather than 6. I would have loved to see the Pirates do that, but, as I said above, since they didn't, I am pleased that Beane did. I like his Sabrmetric way of doing things.

Mr. Free Advertising:

Was Sabremetrics conceived in a food court also??

Sabrmetrics was conceived at the Baseball Hall of Fame in August 1971.

http://sabr.org/about

written by Richard Jarzynka www.BIPOLARMAN.org, February 14, 2012 - 03:14 AM

Sabrmetrics was conceived at the Baseball Hall of Fame in August 1971.

http://sabr.org/about

Thank you. I was not aware it had been around so long.

================================================

Question for you, Mr. Free Advertising:

are you going to share the proceeds of your incessant advertising for your website with your fellow bloggers?
Bob Smizik?
The P-G?

I think that would be a fair way to do things.
After all, I dont promote my website here.

And I dont carry on about my health problems, one of which is very severe, and could cost me my life at a moments notice.

Good day.

Roger (and others),

.org websites are by definition non-profit. Richard isn't making any money from his site, whixg may be why Bob allows him to mention it. .com sites are the ones which are supposed to make money. So that means that if Roger wants his site to be plugged on this blog, it has to be www.enjoythecorndogs.org (Just an example, Bob, not an invitation.)

written by reyjose,

"Some of you anti-Pirate people are just haters who want attention. If the Pirates were ranked as the worst minor league system in baseball you'd be complaining about it. Now the Pirates have some hope in the minors, that's a good thing."


Please don't take it as anti Pirate. It is not. Not even close. It is simply stating that we understand one thing very well now:

There is a minor league and major league. The minor league is a place to keep talent that you hope will become good enough for the big leagues some day.

The Pirates are in the Major league. We all want to see the Pirates become a perennial player (again) in baseball, as to competing for the playoffs year after year. It is just pointing out that being good in the minor leagues or being good at finding possible major league talent means nothing if the result does not consistently aid the major league team to get in the playoffs.

If you find the talent but lose it through the system that is modern baseball, what good is it? If you keep it, but then must discard it once it becomes good enough to be worth something- how depressing is that?

If you can't make more than a run at a pennant say once every ten years (I'd take that right now), BECAUSE the talent you bring up through the minors will get ravaged by teams that use your team as a minor league, what is the point to all of it as a true competition?

Really, the ones who speak out can be put in the 'care more' category because they want to see a team in Pittsburgh that ATTEMPTS to compete on a realistic level. The ones who pretend each year is the beginning of long prosperity, against all common sense, are the ones who need to get with the program for change. Change back to winning. Change back to needing to win.

written by garretta, February 14, 2012 - 04:16 AM
Roger (and others),

.org websites are by definition non-profit. Richard isn't making any money from his site, whixg may be why Bob allows him to mention it. .com sites are the ones which are supposed to make money. So that means that if Roger wants his site to be plugged on this blog, it has to be www.enjoythecorndogs.org (Just an example, Bob, not an invitation.

Garetta,

Since you decided to poke your nose in, have you missed Bipolar plugging his "book" with a link to Amazon where it is sold?

That is why they call him Mr. Free advertising. Pay Attention!!!!

Sabrmetrics is nonsense. Especially to the point that some of you talk about it. The game of baseball is not that complicated.
-------------
Garretta - Richard constantly plugs his book which is advertised on his .org site.

Here is where i get annoyed with some people. There have been many people on here touting the Pirate farm system. As it turns out they were probably right. Now I'm not saying that that will lead to immediate success at the big league level, or even success eventually. No one can see the future.

My problem is that some of the people who criticize the Pirates still refuse to acknowledge that this is a good thing. They were claiming that the system wasn't improved and still don't and act like it means nothing. Do you people realize that 99% of all big leaguers come from the minors? Do you realize that if a guy performs poorly in the minors he will perform poorly in the bigs if he even gets there. Now we all know that minor league success guarantees nothing. We also know that the odds of a good minor leaguer performing well at the big level is much higher than that of a poor peformer.

written by garretta, February 14, 2012 - 04:16 AM
Roger (and others),

.org websites are by definition non-profit. Richard isn't making any money from his site, whixg may be why Bob allows him to mention it. .com sites are the ones which are supposed to make money. So that means that if Roger wants his site to be plugged on this blog, it has to be www.enjoythecorndogs.org (Just an example, Bob, not an invitation.)

Garretta:

even "non-profits" can ask incessantly for "donations", or provide links for the sale of merchandise.

That is exactly what Mr. Free Advertising is doing. He has a "dot.org", but shills his book.

=================================================

The enjoyacorndog.org (or.com) has potential, however.................................

Buccs1960 -
I don't acknowledge "this is a good thing" because the MLB product still sucks.
I don't acknowledge "this is a good thing" because these "stars" are in A ball and lower
I don't acknowledge "this is a good thing" because at one point at the beginning of this 2 decade losing streak the minors were ranked #1 and we saw what that got "us"

BFD,
You are correct the big league club still stinks.

You are incorrect about where the players are and will be this year.

I understand that at one point in time the Pirates also had a highly rated farm system and that amounted to nothing. That doesn't change the fact that it is a good thing. It also doesn't mean it will work out this time either.

Would rather have 2 players in the top 100 and a low rated farm system, or 6 players in the top 76 and a highly rated farm system? Which one gives the big club a better chance in the future?

My problem is that some of the people who criticize the Pirates still refuse to acknowledge that this is a good thing.

You have way more problems than that, Dog.

To your point BFD, wasn't KC's farm system ranked at the top recently? What has that gotten them?

Sirius,

KC's system was ranked at the top last year. As you know it takes a little time for a team full of newbies to fully mature. Tampa is a perfect example. They went from last to first or second I forget in one year. It was completely due to their young minor league stars reaching the bigs. Not to throw any water on your pathetic attempt to discredit the value of having a good minor league system. I'll ask you again who is Dog?

buccs 1960,

I agree with you on the value of having a good minor league system. You gave the example of the Tampa Rays, I'll add two more teams:

Much of the Yankees success over the past 15 years was due to the fact that their minor league system produced Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, and Jorge Posada all at the same time.

Much of the Rangers recent success has come from the fact that their minor league system produced star players like C.J. Wilson, Neftali Perez, and Mark Texeira. Texeira, of course, is no longer with them, but they were able to trade him for Elvis Andrus, who is now their starting shortstop. They also used their minor league system to trad two of their top pitching prospects to the Reds for Josh Hamilton.

Yes, the Yankees and Rangers spend a lot of money. But their success has also depended upon the strength of their minor league systems.

just maybe, the Nuttings would get the hint and put a winning team on the Major League field

You people are so naive.

What would be the incentive for the Nuttings to do that?

They are making money the way they are operating. MLB is not on their case to change.

People go to the park.

They have a nasty president who slaps down innkeepers who offer promotions, or bloggers who call for a government investigation.

Again, what would be the incentive for the Nuttings to change what they are doing?

Why do people still care about these ridiculous rankings. The Pirates could have all 101 players on this list AND THE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM WOULD STILL STINK!!! I wish people would stop going to the ballpark for fireworks, bobbleheads and concerts. I wish the P-G and other media outlets would completely ignore the worst organization in sports and maybe, just maybe, the Nuttings would get the hint and put a winning team on the Major League field or, better yet, JUST GO AWAY!!!!!

Hey Max!!!

Nice of you to take one line of a post and run with it. So I re-posted the ENTIRE thing with your comment so you can read it again SLOOOOOOOWLY. AGAIN it doesn't matter how many prospects are on the list because the team that plays at PNC Park is STILL TERRIBLE!!! The point that you so "astutely" jumped on was part of a bigger hope for the Nuttings to GO AWAY!!! Will they? No. But we can dream. Just like we can dream of 82 wins. WHICH ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON EITHER!!! Enjoy those fireworks, bobbleheads and concerts, GENIUS!

Bucs1960,

That year you speak of, 2008, the Rays also traded for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett and signed Carlos Pena.

I'm not sure NH is savvy enough to make those types of moves once our prospects get to Pittsburgh.

On this point I'm sympathetic to the antis.

This is year 5 of the current Coonelly/Huntington FO. I've always been a proponent of giving a GM 5 years in baseball as it takes time for minor league fruit to ripen.

So in my book Neal and Frank have this year to win something. It's never been easier with Pujols and Fielder out and the MVP facing a 1/3 season suspension.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were completely unprepared for last season's first half success and too inexperienced with pennant contention to really know to strike when the iron was hot, if not to win last year, then at least to have cashed in what few chips they had to make this year's club a winner.

No winner this year, get them both out of here. I might change my mind if they miss the WC by a game or two, but really, it kind of doesn't matter what the minors look like right now. They've had five years. Even the most pro "pros" have to realize there should've been more progress by now.

Unfortunately Nutting will still be there. And it's been a terrible year for newspapers and snow.

written by BaseballFan, February 13, 2012 - 11:45 PM

Funny how Bundy ranked ahead of Cole. Same with Machado and Taillon. The Pirates didn't get Cespedes, talk was cheaper than action again.

I honestly think that their being in the Pirates system affects the rankings. If they were in a farm system with a bettr track record, say, Atlanta, they'd be ranked higher. I'd bet my house on it. And there's nothing wrong with accounting that into the rankings, in fact, the history of a team's farm system SHOULD play a big role in how you rank a prospect.

The point is they aren't based on talent alone.

written by BFD, February 14, 2012 - 07:29 AM

Sabrmetrics is nonsense. Especially to the point that some of you talk about it. The game of baseball is not that complicated.

HA!!!

Sorry but I do not have a crystal ball to look ahead two or three years. All I see is a team that has lost for the past 19 years and is going into this year with the lowest payroll in baseball by quite a bit. If this makes me a "hater" or an "anti" so be it.