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Wednesday, 15 February 2012 11:15
Your worst nightmare:
You have one kid in college, another to start next year, your taxes went up 15 percent due to Allegheny County reassessment and you’ve just taken a job at Pitt -- selling football season tickets on commission.
Pitt’s decision, announced in September, to leave the Big East for the Atlantic Coast Conference was a stroke of good fortune for the school. It gave the Panthers a safe landing spot in a stable league with a bright future and removed it from the Big East sinking ship.
But getting from here to there will be ugly.
When Pitt and Syracuse pulled out of the Big East, West Virginia saw its future crumbling and took the next best offer, which was membership in the Big 12. All three exiting schools were contractually bound to the Big East for 27 months.
But the Big 12 didn’t want to wait and West Virginia, with help from its new conference, paid $20 million for an early exit from the Big East. This will allow the Mountaineers to begin play this fall in the Big 12.
It left Pitt, with no intention of paying its way out of the Big East, with a gaping hole in its home schedule, which was ugly to begin with.
Pitt currently has four home games on a 10-game schedule. It wants six home games and 12 games overall. The shortfall is a result first of TCU pulling out of the league -- after never having competed in any sport -- and West Virginia’s departure.
The Mountaineers were due to play at Heinz Field this season and that game is Pitt’s biggest draw, by far, and a carrot for fans to buy a season-ticket package.
As the Pitt schedule now stands, its home games are Youngstown State, Virginia Tech, Louisville and Rutgers.
A fifth game, replacing TCU, will probably be a Division I-AA team. That’s a game but not an attraction. Finding a replacement for West Virginia will be considerably more difficult.
There is a hope that one of the teams expected to join the Big East in 2013 will enter a year early and be added to the Pitt schedule. But of all those teams only Boise State is any kind of draw. There’s also the possibility that the conference will turn one of Pitt’s away games into a home game. That could be Connecticut, Cincinnati, South Florida or Syracuse.
In any event, it’s a bad situation. Pitt was having difficult attracting fans to home games and last year’s hugely disappointing season, 6-7, only made matters worse.
By most accounts, this is one-year situation. Most indications are the Big East will allow Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC for the 2013 season.
Comments (66)
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written by Meathead, February 15, 2012 - 09:23 AM
written by Meathead, February 15, 2012 - 09:23 AM
Spring training starts in four days. What's with all this football talk? 
Speaking of getting from here to there being ugly what happens when gas prices reach record highs and the Parkway is backed up to Blairsville due to construction on the Squirrel Hill Tunnel?
Speaking of getting from here to there being ugly what happens when gas prices reach record highs and the Parkway is backed up to Blairsville due to construction on the Squirrel Hill Tunnel?
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written by TheUnblogger, February 15, 2012 - 09:25 AM
written by TheUnblogger, February 15, 2012 - 09:25 AM
Why would the league take a home game from one school and give it to Pitt, when they screwed the conference?
Pitt knew the risk when they made their leap, I think season ticket holders should get seats for a buck a piece.
This will be a lost season for Pitt
Pitt knew the risk when they made their leap, I think season ticket holders should get seats for a buck a piece.
This will be a lost season for Pitt
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written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 09:25 AM
written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 09:25 AM
If Pitt wanted to pony up like WVU did, they would not have this problem of needing teams to play. The biggest problem for Pitt football is to win. That will sell more tickets. However, at least when WVU played at Pitt, there were fans in the stadium. The only other ACC team that will have fans come to Pitt is VA Tech. There are no arch rivals for Pitt in the ACC.
Lets say Pitt soes start to win 9-10 games a year. During the late 70s/early 80s Pitt attendance was lacking. I remember going to watch Pitt/Syracuse on a nice October day in 76(championship year)and Pitt Stadium was not sold out...maybe 80% filled. It has never been in demand ticket
Lets say Pitt soes start to win 9-10 games a year. During the late 70s/early 80s Pitt attendance was lacking. I remember going to watch Pitt/Syracuse on a nice October day in 76(championship year)and Pitt Stadium was not sold out...maybe 80% filled. It has never been in demand ticket
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written by johnharding, February 15, 2012 - 09:32 AM
written by johnharding, February 15, 2012 - 09:32 AM
Pitt and Cuse not leaving at the same time as WVU is a mistake. they will pay for it big time with low attendence. Honestly, one cupcake home game is fine...but potentially 3 cupcakes? ugh. If the big east does get boise state does anyone really want to watch them slaughter the panthers at home? They should pony up other wise it will be a lame duck season all around for sports....and as we know those are never good.
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written by Dobreshunka, February 15, 2012 - 09:42 AM
written by Dobreshunka, February 15, 2012 - 09:42 AM
Get a new quarterback and start winning...fans will show up.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 09:45 AM
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 09:45 AM
Pitt is always a bridesmaid and never a bride. Whatever they do, it is always too little and too late. Instead of having a broad, far-seeing approach, they employ a narrow, short-sighted one. I agree with the above poster who said that Pitt needed to do everything possible to get out of the BE this year. In fact, it should have been done years ago.
Apart from all of this is the true, fundamental problem that cannot be fixed: Pitt plays in a cavernous off-campus stadium that has no atmosphere and no relation to the campus an campus life.
`Cavernous.' Never heard Heinz Field call that before.
I can imagine the outcry in these hard times, if Pitt had done what West Virginia did and paid $20 million to leave the Big East. --- Bob Smizik
Apart from all of this is the true, fundamental problem that cannot be fixed: Pitt plays in a cavernous off-campus stadium that has no atmosphere and no relation to the campus an campus life.
`Cavernous.' Never heard Heinz Field call that before.
I can imagine the outcry in these hard times, if Pitt had done what West Virginia did and paid $20 million to leave the Big East. --- Bob Smizik
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written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 09:46 AM
I might walk down the street and get tips from the Pirate marketing staff. If I could, I would have all games on Saturday night. I know that that may not be possible due to the money we will get from TV deals so those week night games and noon Saturday starts will have to make due. We will have fireworks and retread 70/80s band concerts and let the kids run on the field after the game. Heck if the Pirates are playing we might offer a BOGO promotion
written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 09:46 AM
You have one kid in college, another to start next year, your taxes went up 15 percent due to Allegheny County reassessment and you’ve just taken a job at Pitt -- selling football season tickets on commission.
I might walk down the street and get tips from the Pirate marketing staff. If I could, I would have all games on Saturday night. I know that that may not be possible due to the money we will get from TV deals so those week night games and noon Saturday starts will have to make due. We will have fireworks and retread 70/80s band concerts and let the kids run on the field after the game. Heck if the Pirates are playing we might offer a BOGO promotion
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written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 09:48 AM
written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 09:48 AM
Pitt, in it's infinite wisdom, chose to make the situation even worse by ticking off loyal season ticket holders. They decided they didn't want season ticket holders sitting in the upper north end zone anymore. They told us we had to move our seats to the upper east sideline. I went from the 3rd row in the middle of the end zone to the 19th row on the 40 yard line. We were very annoyed & wished to remain in our original seats. Some of the people around us have been in those seats since Heinz Field opened in 2001. I personally gave them a hard time about it & I'm sure many others did as well because the other day I got an email saying I could retain my original seats if I wanted to. What in the world was Pitt thinking? They've been putting a horrible product on the field for years & play garbage teams more often than not. I literally cannot give Pitt tickets away for free. These geniuses up & decide to tick off what little fans they have. They're lucky I'm loyal because this is the exact kind of crap that's going to run what fans they have left out of the stadium.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 09:57 AM
It most certainly is cavernous when there are 20,000 people there. Heinz Field is not a great stadium for either pro or college football. It certainly is the weakest pro venue in the city. PNC Park and Consol are in the top of their sports, Heinz is lucky to be top half. Because the Steelers fill it up every week, Heinz Field is ok for pro football, but as an off-campus venue, that is only filled once or twice a year for Pitt football, it is a cavernous, quiet, poor place to play college football.
As for the WV buyout, it was not $20 million in cold, hard cash up front, some of it is in deferred tv and conference payouts, a chunk paid by the conference, and other payments over a period of years. WV did what it took to get out now. Like always, Pitt has been pussy-footing around the reality of the situation.
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 09:57 AM
`Cavernous.' Never heard Heinz Field call that before. I can imagine the outcry in these hard times, if Pitt had done what West Virginia did and paid $20 million to leave the Big East. --- Bob Smizik
It most certainly is cavernous when there are 20,000 people there. Heinz Field is not a great stadium for either pro or college football. It certainly is the weakest pro venue in the city. PNC Park and Consol are in the top of their sports, Heinz is lucky to be top half. Because the Steelers fill it up every week, Heinz Field is ok for pro football, but as an off-campus venue, that is only filled once or twice a year for Pitt football, it is a cavernous, quiet, poor place to play college football.
As for the WV buyout, it was not $20 million in cold, hard cash up front, some of it is in deferred tv and conference payouts, a chunk paid by the conference, and other payments over a period of years. WV did what it took to get out now. Like always, Pitt has been pussy-footing around the reality of the situation.
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written by wolfeman44, February 15, 2012 - 09:58 AM
It sure seems "Cavernous" when PITT plays there.
15,000-20,000 in attendance in a 65,000+ seat stadium.
Wake Forest at PITT
Duke at PITT
Virginia at PITT
Ga Tech at PITT
... more "Cavernous" time ahead for PITT Football.
written by wolfeman44, February 15, 2012 - 09:58 AM
`Cavernous.' Never heard Heinz Field call that before.
I can imagine the outcry in these hard times, if Pitt had done what West Virginia did and paid $20 million to leave the Big East. --- Bob Smizik
It sure seems "Cavernous" when PITT plays there.
15,000-20,000 in attendance in a 65,000+ seat stadium.
Wake Forest at PITT
Duke at PITT
Virginia at PITT
Ga Tech at PITT
... more "Cavernous" time ahead for PITT Football.
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written by Meathead, February 15, 2012 - 09:59 AM
Somehow with Heinz Field adding 3000 new seats there will be 5000 more empty seats for Pitt games.
written by Meathead, February 15, 2012 - 09:59 AM
`Cavernous.' Never heard Heinz Field call that before.
Somehow with Heinz Field adding 3000 new seats there will be 5000 more empty seats for Pitt games.
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written by csf, February 15, 2012 - 10:01 AM
written by csf, February 15, 2012 - 10:01 AM
Pitt's ticket selling issues is primarily the Steelers.
Note that the exemplary college football PROGRAMS in the East are PSU, VA Tech, Florida, and FSU .. followed by WVU, Clemson and So Carolina.
And the common thing about ALL of the above are that they do not share a city with an NFL team.
Now the issue that Bob pointed out is a one-year problem, and starting next year Pitt will have a decent home schedule .. but they still will have problems selling tickets. Yes, winning helps .. but in the late 70s/early 80s when Pitt finihed in Top 10 annually, you can still buy a ticket at the Pitt Stadium gate on gameday unless the opponent was pSU, ND or WVU. (I know this because I did so frequently)
Note that the exemplary college football PROGRAMS in the East are PSU, VA Tech, Florida, and FSU .. followed by WVU, Clemson and So Carolina.
And the common thing about ALL of the above are that they do not share a city with an NFL team.
Now the issue that Bob pointed out is a one-year problem, and starting next year Pitt will have a decent home schedule .. but they still will have problems selling tickets. Yes, winning helps .. but in the late 70s/early 80s when Pitt finihed in Top 10 annually, you can still buy a ticket at the Pitt Stadium gate on gameday unless the opponent was pSU, ND or WVU. (I know this because I did so frequently)
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written by PittofDreams, February 15, 2012 - 10:05 AM
"Good Ham" above is absolutely right.
History has shown that if Pitt wins... it draws fans.
Pitt already took the first step to doing that by hiring Chryst.
Next will be Chryst finding a quarterback to replace Sunseri who can prove himself to be a winner.
written by PittofDreams, February 15, 2012 - 10:05 AM
"Good Ham" above is absolutely right.
History has shown that if Pitt wins... it draws fans.
Pitt already took the first step to doing that by hiring Chryst.
Next will be Chryst finding a quarterback to replace Sunseri who can prove himself to be a winner.
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written by Hell Unleashed, February 15, 2012 - 10:06 AM
written by Hell Unleashed, February 15, 2012 - 10:06 AM
Pitt could fill the hole in their schedule by playing the best WPIAL team. Just have Tino be the QB for both teams. Should then be competitive.
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written by Darkhorses, February 15, 2012 - 10:11 AM
written by Darkhorses, February 15, 2012 - 10:11 AM
Plenty of parking, no long waits at the concessions stands or restrooms, casino next door, and no traffic jams going home. I'm sold.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:13 AM
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:13 AM
The day that the decision was made to wreck Pitt Stadium and build the Petersen Events Center was the day the music died for Pitt football.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Don't let the facts get in the way of your antiquated thinking, Bill. -- Bob Smizik
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Don't let the facts get in the way of your antiquated thinking, Bill. -- Bob Smizik
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written by csf, February 15, 2012 - 10:19 AM
written by csf, February 15, 2012 - 10:19 AM
BillDavis, I repeat .... Pitt has perennial Top 10 teams in late 70s / eraly 80s playing at 55k Pitt Stadium .. and still didn't sell out (except for ND, PSU and WVU.
THE FACT IS .. that Pitt's FB attendance records show that they draw better at Heinz than they did at Pitt Stadium .... look it up.
THE FACT IS .. that Pitt's FB attendance records show that they draw better at Heinz than they did at Pitt Stadium .... look it up.
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written by Maine Bucs Fan, February 15, 2012 - 10:19 AM
Now there's a statement to draw in the crowds.
I used to fly a lot back about 25-30 years ago and I used to pick the routes with not many passengers- plenty of room and got your refreshments in a timely fashion. Unfortunately most of those routes and many of those airlines have since been eliminated. Cause and effect.
written by Maine Bucs Fan, February 15, 2012 - 10:19 AM
Plenty of parking, no long waits at the concessions stands or restrooms, casino next door, and no traffic jams going home. I'm sold.
Now there's a statement to draw in the crowds.
I used to fly a lot back about 25-30 years ago and I used to pick the routes with not many passengers- plenty of room and got your refreshments in a timely fashion. Unfortunately most of those routes and many of those airlines have since been eliminated. Cause and effect.
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written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
Pitt needs to go Nutting: minimize costs, maximize profits.
Here's what they can do:
--cry poor to the Rooney's, see if they will cut them a break on the rent.
--Winter Sky Blast
--It's hard to bring in bands to play outside in November, but why not something like the Winter X games or a UFC fight after the game?
--See if you can convince WVU students to try to buy out the stadium again.
--See if you can play one of your games during halftime at a Steeler game, like the mighty mites.
--Thank your lucky stars that Graham isn't still the head coach, because you wouldn't even sell half of what you are selling now.
That's all I got.
written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
Pitt needs to go Nutting: minimize costs, maximize profits.
Here's what they can do:
--cry poor to the Rooney's, see if they will cut them a break on the rent.
--Winter Sky Blast
--It's hard to bring in bands to play outside in November, but why not something like the Winter X games or a UFC fight after the game?
--See if you can convince WVU students to try to buy out the stadium again.
--See if you can play one of your games during halftime at a Steeler game, like the mighty mites.
--Thank your lucky stars that Graham isn't still the head coach, because you wouldn't even sell half of what you are selling now.
That's all I got.
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written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
*t doesn't matter if Pitt has the best team or best home schedule in the world, it's always going to be a tough sell as long as they play second fiddle behind the Steelers. Temple is a very tough sell, too, they'll always be second fiddle behind the Eagles playing in that stadium.
I remember going to games on Pitt campus as a kid when Marino was the QB. That place would always have good attendance numbers.
If Pitt really cared about their attendance for football, they would've built a stadium on campus. That's the only way they'll ever get better attendance for football.
Playing in the Steelers stadium will always keep them second fiddle to the Steelers. And the Steelers stadium is not an easy stadium to get to in any way. In any direction, you have to go through a river to get there. To get to Pitt's campus, if you're coming in from the East, you don't have to go through a river to get there. People do it for the Steelers because they've been an extremely successful franchise going on 40 years now and they sell out every game. They're not going to do it for Pitt football.
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland. By why let the facts get in the road of your argument?
Building an on-campus stadium is a great idea except for this: Where and how? -- Bob Smizik
I remember going to games on Pitt campus as a kid when Marino was the QB. That place would always have good attendance numbers.
If Pitt really cared about their attendance for football, they would've built a stadium on campus. That's the only way they'll ever get better attendance for football.
Playing in the Steelers stadium will always keep them second fiddle to the Steelers. And the Steelers stadium is not an easy stadium to get to in any way. In any direction, you have to go through a river to get there. To get to Pitt's campus, if you're coming in from the East, you don't have to go through a river to get there. People do it for the Steelers because they've been an extremely successful franchise going on 40 years now and they sell out every game. They're not going to do it for Pitt football.
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland. By why let the facts get in the road of your argument?
Building an on-campus stadium is a great idea except for this: Where and how? -- Bob Smizik
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written by Max, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
written by Max, February 15, 2012 - 10:23 AM
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Sounds like a potential Pirates enabler!
www.ItAllStartsAtTheTop.org
Plenty of parking, no long waits at the concessions stands or restrooms, casino next door, and no traffic jams going home. I'm sold.
Sounds like a potential Pirates enabler!
www.ItAllStartsAtTheTop.org
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written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:25 AM
Actually, History shows that if Pitt plays a popular team that travels well, it draws fans. The amount of local fans willing to buy tickets to watch a good Pitt team seems to be about 30,000.
Pitt averaged in excess of 50,000 for several seasons during the Marino-era. It also averaged that amount briefly in the Heinz Field era. I seem to recall season when both Va. Tech and Miami sold out Heinz Field. -- Bob Smizik
written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:25 AM
History has shown that if Pitt wins... it draws fans.
Actually, History shows that if Pitt plays a popular team that travels well, it draws fans. The amount of local fans willing to buy tickets to watch a good Pitt team seems to be about 30,000.
Pitt averaged in excess of 50,000 for several seasons during the Marino-era. It also averaged that amount briefly in the Heinz Field era. I seem to recall season when both Va. Tech and Miami sold out Heinz Field. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 10:30 AM
written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 10:30 AM
Last time I checked a lot of people have to cross a river to get to Oakland as well & there isn't 5 different highways leading in to Oakland. Traffic is ridiculous for a 12,000 seat basketball arena.
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written by Joe D, February 15, 2012 - 10:32 AM
written by Joe D, February 15, 2012 - 10:32 AM
To answer the end question..
Quit and go find another job...
you will not make enough money to sustain yourself selling Pitt tickets on commission..
10% of $1 is 10cents!!!
Quit and go find another job...
you will not make enough money to sustain yourself selling Pitt tickets on commission..
10% of $1 is 10cents!!!
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written by ericSS, February 15, 2012 - 10:33 AM
written by ericSS, February 15, 2012 - 10:33 AM
The have to win and generate excitement. A couple of years ago - the Cinci game packed Heinz Field.
When they go to the ACC - they will draw well for Maryland and perhaps Clemson (these fans seem to travel). Maryland travels pretty well for the WVU Games. I am not sure about Virginia Tech.
When they go to the ACC - they will draw well for Maryland and perhaps Clemson (these fans seem to travel). Maryland travels pretty well for the WVU Games. I am not sure about Virginia Tech.
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written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 10:35 AM
Cavernous....a fitting description of most Pitt home games
written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 10:35 AM
Cavernous....a fitting description of most Pitt home games
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written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 10:36 AM
written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 10:36 AM
Va Tech traveled well at Pitt in the past, so I imagine they will do so again. Clemson will only be at Heinz Field once every six years, so I wouldn't count on them doing much to help attendance.
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written by Niblick, February 15, 2012 - 10:37 AM
written by Niblick, February 15, 2012 - 10:37 AM
Hard to believe that after all of these years there are people still yearning for Pitt stadium. That place was nostalgic but it was becoming a dump and an eyesore. With the very limited access and no parking, it became extremely difficult to get to a game.
Being an alumnus, I am glad that Pitt didn't pay their way out of the Big East like WVU did. Maybe this is a lost year in terms of scheduling, but so what. I don't like the idea of paying large amounts of money to get out of something that was agreed upon years ago. WVU looked desperate to me and putting money above ethics just seems wrong.
Being an alumnus, I am glad that Pitt didn't pay their way out of the Big East like WVU did. Maybe this is a lost year in terms of scheduling, but so what. I don't like the idea of paying large amounts of money to get out of something that was agreed upon years ago. WVU looked desperate to me and putting money above ethics just seems wrong.
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written by chasbo, February 15, 2012 - 10:40 AM
written by chasbo, February 15, 2012 - 10:40 AM
"The day that the decision was made to wreck Pitt Stadium and build the Petersen Events Center was the day the music died for Pitt football. "
Pitt Stadium was an absolute dump. It was a horrible place to go to a game lacking all modern amenities. Pitt had no future for football in that stadium.
The same could be said about Fitzgerald Field House. While it was a great place to watch a game, it otherwise had absolutely no amenities.
Now we are in a state of the art Basketball facility on campus and a state of the art Football facility ten minutes from campus.
Pitt Stadium was an absolute dump. It was a horrible place to go to a game lacking all modern amenities. Pitt had no future for football in that stadium.
The same could be said about Fitzgerald Field House. While it was a great place to watch a game, it otherwise had absolutely no amenities.
Now we are in a state of the art Basketball facility on campus and a state of the art Football facility ten minutes from campus.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:41 AM
Bob,
Walt Harris had already been coach for four seasons and taken the team to two bowl games before Heinz Field even opened. This isn't about wins and losses per se, its about having an off-campus venue with no character and no intimate ties to the campus.
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:41 AM
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Don't let the facts get in the way of your antiquated thinking, Bill. -- Bob Smizik
Bob,
Walt Harris had already been coach for four seasons and taken the team to two bowl games before Heinz Field even opened. This isn't about wins and losses per se, its about having an off-campus venue with no character and no intimate ties to the campus.
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written by Bill, February 15, 2012 - 10:43 AM
written by Bill, February 15, 2012 - 10:43 AM
Pitt Cuse and WVU should have been more proactive to enhance the BE. That could have been to push the BE to agressively pursue other football members. But maybe they did and we don't know. Looking at it now Pitt and Cuse if they stay for two more years will take a bath on football and WVU will be playing in an ultra competitive conference as a mid tier memeber not dominante in the BE. It would have been nice to keep an eastern league together.
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written by NMR, February 15, 2012 - 10:45 AM
written by NMR, February 15, 2012 - 10:45 AM
As a non-fan, I think Pitt should be lauded for not spending money on athletics that cannot be internally funded. If your football program generates $50m/yr, then sure, spend the money. I highly doubt Pitt fits that bill.
In the long run, the effect will be minimal.
In the short term, Pitt doesn't look like just another University run by the athletic department.
Pitt fans should be proud.
In the long run, the effect will be minimal.
In the short term, Pitt doesn't look like just another University run by the athletic department.
Pitt fans should be proud.
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written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 10:45 AM
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland. By why let the facts get in the road of your argument?
Building an on-campus stadium is a great idea except for this: Where and how? -- Bob Smizik
Of course it is when there's less than 20,000 people attending Pitt football games. Ever try to get to Heinz Field during a sold out concert? Forget about it. It took me an hour and a half to get from Monroeville to across the Liberty Bridge the last time there was a sold out concert there and I wasn't even going to the concert! It never took me an hour and a half to get from Monroeville to a Pitt game in Oakland when there were 50,000 people going to the Pitt game.
As for where and how, Pitt already made that decision when they built Peterson. They decided to de-emphasize football to emphasize basketball. Given the success of the basketball program, the decision has worked out well for them (this year being the exception).
It is far easier to get to the North Shore for a major event, Steelers, than it would beo a similar function in Oakland. That is beyond dispute.
Pitt football took a upturn when it left Pitt Stadium. There was no deemphasis. The team got better, crowds got bigger.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Please, no revisionist history.--- Bob Smizik
written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 10:45 AM
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland. By why let the facts get in the road of your argument?
Building an on-campus stadium is a great idea except for this: Where and how? -- Bob Smizik
Of course it is when there's less than 20,000 people attending Pitt football games. Ever try to get to Heinz Field during a sold out concert? Forget about it. It took me an hour and a half to get from Monroeville to across the Liberty Bridge the last time there was a sold out concert there and I wasn't even going to the concert! It never took me an hour and a half to get from Monroeville to a Pitt game in Oakland when there were 50,000 people going to the Pitt game.
As for where and how, Pitt already made that decision when they built Peterson. They decided to de-emphasize football to emphasize basketball. Given the success of the basketball program, the decision has worked out well for them (this year being the exception).
It is far easier to get to the North Shore for a major event, Steelers, than it would beo a similar function in Oakland. That is beyond dispute.
Pitt football took a upturn when it left Pitt Stadium. There was no deemphasis. The team got better, crowds got bigger.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Please, no revisionist history.--- Bob Smizik
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written by bobcatbuzz, February 15, 2012 - 10:46 AM
written by bobcatbuzz, February 15, 2012 - 10:46 AM
The article and the response of a majority of the posters seems to me to project that the level of PITT football has dropped to that of the MAC.
Maybe PITT should forget about trying to sell tickets to the football game and sell tickets to watching Pederson hire/fire/hire Head Football coaches and sell tickets to his "press conferences" explaining his hiring/firing/hiring/firing coaches and/or explaining where his latest football coach even is(Graham). That without a doubt has been far more "entertaining" than PITT football itself has been over the past decade.
Oh yea I know Bob, but Pederson single-handedly built the Pete, brick by brick.
Prior to last season, Pitt had averaged nine wins a year for three years and twice was within a game, a play or two, of winning the Big East title. That is not MAC-level football no matter how many times you post that argument. -- Bob Smizik
Maybe PITT should forget about trying to sell tickets to the football game and sell tickets to watching Pederson hire/fire/hire Head Football coaches and sell tickets to his "press conferences" explaining his hiring/firing/hiring/firing coaches and/or explaining where his latest football coach even is(Graham). That without a doubt has been far more "entertaining" than PITT football itself has been over the past decade.
Oh yea I know Bob, but Pederson single-handedly built the Pete, brick by brick.
Prior to last season, Pitt had averaged nine wins a year for three years and twice was within a game, a play or two, of winning the Big East title. That is not MAC-level football no matter how many times you post that argument. -- Bob Smizik
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:47 AM
Bob, you consistently ignore the history of the building of the Petersen Events Center. Pitt had an on-campus football venue. It was old and in disrepair. Instead of choosing to completely renovate and update its football stadium or demolish it and rebuild a new football stadium, it chose to demolish its on-campus football stadium and build an on-campus basketball arena. Pitt ignored the fact that football pays the bills and drives major college athletics. Instead of catering to the needs of its football program, it made the strategic error of building the Petersen Events Center. Because of their short-sightedness, they now have to live with their decisions.
The strategic error you speak of resulted in Pitt having better football and basketball programs and increased attendance in both sports. I do not consider such thinking to be in error.
What you conveniently ignore is the dilapidated condition of Pitt Stadium, the millions that had been poured into it for naught, the horrible attendance numbers and the cost of building a new football facility in Oakland. -- Bob Smizik
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:47 AM
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland. By why let the facts get in the road of your argument?
Building an on-campus stadium is a great idea except for this: Where and how? -- Bob Smizik
Bob, you consistently ignore the history of the building of the Petersen Events Center. Pitt had an on-campus football venue. It was old and in disrepair. Instead of choosing to completely renovate and update its football stadium or demolish it and rebuild a new football stadium, it chose to demolish its on-campus football stadium and build an on-campus basketball arena. Pitt ignored the fact that football pays the bills and drives major college athletics. Instead of catering to the needs of its football program, it made the strategic error of building the Petersen Events Center. Because of their short-sightedness, they now have to live with their decisions.
The strategic error you speak of resulted in Pitt having better football and basketball programs and increased attendance in both sports. I do not consider such thinking to be in error.
What you conveniently ignore is the dilapidated condition of Pitt Stadium, the millions that had been poured into it for naught, the horrible attendance numbers and the cost of building a new football facility in Oakland. -- Bob Smizik
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written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:49 AM
Bob, those were, dare I say, great Pitt teams, shortly removed from a National Championship. Plus they were playing in a great venue with a tremendous college atmosphere, with overnight tailgating in the parking lots, vendors on all the corners, Peter's pub, CJ's, Zelda's and Hemingways bursting at the seems before and after the games.
While both starting QB's were Central Catholic alumns, I know you are not suggesting the 2012 team is going to approach any of the Marino teams in terms of talent or success.
A good Pitt team will draw about 30,000 local fans. When they sell out, it's due fans coming in for the other teams.
written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 10:49 AM
Pitt averaged in excess of 50,000 for several seasons during the Marino-era.
Bob, those were, dare I say, great Pitt teams, shortly removed from a National Championship. Plus they were playing in a great venue with a tremendous college atmosphere, with overnight tailgating in the parking lots, vendors on all the corners, Peter's pub, CJ's, Zelda's and Hemingways bursting at the seems before and after the games.
While both starting QB's were Central Catholic alumns, I know you are not suggesting the 2012 team is going to approach any of the Marino teams in terms of talent or success.
A good Pitt team will draw about 30,000 local fans. When they sell out, it's due fans coming in for the other teams.
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written by ericSS, February 15, 2012 - 10:53 AM
written by ericSS, February 15, 2012 - 10:53 AM
**s the TV rights that are driving the change - not WVU and/or its Athletic Dept.
If the B12 did not have a 10th team for this year - they would of lost TV revenue. That is a fact. If the TV network permitted the B12 to go with 9 teams this year without a loss of TV revenue - WVU would still be in the BE next year.
If the B12 did not have a 10th team for this year - they would of lost TV revenue. That is a fact. If the TV network permitted the B12 to go with 9 teams this year without a loss of TV revenue - WVU would still be in the BE next year.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:54 AM
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:54 AM
Building something like the Petersen Events Center is great if you are Georgetown or Providence. If you strive to play big-time football, you ALWAYS have to put football first. This cannot be denied.
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written by pghsportsfan, February 15, 2012 - 10:55 AM
I went to games, at Pitt Stadium, while Marino was at Pitt.
Pitt Stadium was hard to get to, there was very limited parking, the facility was run down, and ther were no amenities.
Heinz Field easy to get to, there is substantial parking, the facility is beautiful, and there are many amenities.
The only difference that I can see is that there was a little more "college atmosphere" at Pitt Stadium, but while Marino was there they won approximately 40 a games. Pitt hasn't had a run like that since they moved to Heinz Field.
Once Pitt starts to win, things at Heinz Field should look a lot better.
written by pghsportsfan, February 15, 2012 - 10:55 AM
I went to games, at Pitt Stadium, while Marino was at Pitt.
Pitt Stadium was hard to get to, there was very limited parking, the facility was run down, and ther were no amenities.
Heinz Field easy to get to, there is substantial parking, the facility is beautiful, and there are many amenities.
The only difference that I can see is that there was a little more "college atmosphere" at Pitt Stadium, but while Marino was there they won approximately 40 a games. Pitt hasn't had a run like that since they moved to Heinz Field.
Once Pitt starts to win, things at Heinz Field should look a lot better.
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:55 AM
Where did I make that assertion? I wrote nothing even resembling that.
My bad. I confused you with another poster. Sorry. -- Bob Smizik
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 10:55 AM
And none of that has anything to do with your assertion that it's easier to get to Oakland than the North Shore. -- Bob Smizik
Where did I make that assertion? I wrote nothing even resembling that.
My bad. I confused you with another poster. Sorry. -- Bob Smizik
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written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 11:05 AM
No problem. I believe that the reason Pitt had better football and basketball teams in the late 90's and early 2000's is that Steve Pederson made good coaching hires, bringing in Ben Howland and Walt Harris. It had little or nothing to do with the venues, as both Harris and Howland had already turned the teams around while they were still playing in Pitt Stadium and Fitzgerald Field House, respectively. While it is only fair to give Pederson credit for his good coaching hires, he also must be held responsible for his (and others) horrible strategic error of moving football off campus.
written by BillDavis, February 15, 2012 - 11:05 AM
My bad. I confused you with another poster. Sorry. -- Bob Smizik
No problem. I believe that the reason Pitt had better football and basketball teams in the late 90's and early 2000's is that Steve Pederson made good coaching hires, bringing in Ben Howland and Walt Harris. It had little or nothing to do with the venues, as both Harris and Howland had already turned the teams around while they were still playing in Pitt Stadium and Fitzgerald Field House, respectively. While it is only fair to give Pederson credit for his good coaching hires, he also must be held responsible for his (and others) horrible strategic error of moving football off campus.
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written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 11:10 AM
@Bob: Even if I concede your point, which I don't, Pitt plays 6 home games. If you love your school and love college football, access should be very low on the list of factors about attending a game. Espeically if you can get them scheduled on a Saturday afternoon.
The classic case are the Pirates. There were so many complaints about how much harder it was to get to 3 rivers than forbes field: traffic was terrible, parking was terrible, no street cars, etc, etc. Yet no one ever complained about those same issues to go and see the Steelers, when the crowds were 10 times as big.
When PNC Park opened, most of those complaints went away and, even though the teams have been terrible, they routinely draw more than they did at 3 Rivers.
If you are suggesting I think access is an issue, I do not. Someone else brought it up. -- Bob Smizik
written by heartbeatsings, February 15, 2012 - 11:10 AM
Heinz Field is infinitely easier to reach than any stadium built in Oakland
@Bob: Even if I concede your point, which I don't, Pitt plays 6 home games. If you love your school and love college football, access should be very low on the list of factors about attending a game. Espeically if you can get them scheduled on a Saturday afternoon.
The classic case are the Pirates. There were so many complaints about how much harder it was to get to 3 rivers than forbes field: traffic was terrible, parking was terrible, no street cars, etc, etc. Yet no one ever complained about those same issues to go and see the Steelers, when the crowds were 10 times as big.
When PNC Park opened, most of those complaints went away and, even though the teams have been terrible, they routinely draw more than they did at 3 Rivers.
If you are suggesting I think access is an issue, I do not. Someone else brought it up. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Ozzypgh, February 15, 2012 - 11:28 AM
written by Ozzypgh, February 15, 2012 - 11:28 AM
Steve Pederson blew up the program when he fired Wanny. Yes, Wanny had a tough year in 2010, but he won 10 games the year before and had a top 25 class coming in 2011. I wish the new coach well, but until Steve P. is relieved of his duties, I'm done with Pitt Football.
Pitt has had one season, 6-7, since Wannstedt was fired. I don't know if that qualifies as ``blowing up the program.'' -- Bob Smizik
Pitt has had one season, 6-7, since Wannstedt was fired. I don't know if that qualifies as ``blowing up the program.'' -- Bob Smizik
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written by Max, February 15, 2012 - 11:40 AM
written by Max, February 15, 2012 - 11:40 AM
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So . . let's see the attendance figures. Well, I know we don't have attendance figures. Are the "tickets sold" numbers available?
That should end this argument.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Don't let the facts get in the way of your antiquated thinking, Bill. -- Bob Smizik
So . . let's see the attendance figures. Well, I know we don't have attendance figures. Are the "tickets sold" numbers available?
That should end this argument.
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written by PittofDreams, February 15, 2012 - 11:40 AM
Here's a repost of the best available numbers showing fan attendance comparisons between Pitt Stadium and Heinz Field.
It offers evidence that winning has everything to do with how many fans attend Pitt football games... and not whethr the games are plaged in Oakland or the North Side.
Those absent of the facts should print this out and hold on to it for reference during the next debate regarding Pitt attendance.
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Heinz Field
"Attendance for Panthers games has varied from an average high of 59,197 people per game throughout the 2003 season to a low of 33,680 in 2007. Most recently, Pitt averaged 53,446 in home attendance during the 2009 season."
As for Pitt Stadium...
"Last year (1996), Pitt's 4-7 record was a factor in limiting its attendance to 30,795, down from 33,175 in 1995.
Highest average attendance was 54,818 in 1982.
written by PittofDreams, February 15, 2012 - 11:40 AM
Here's a repost of the best available numbers showing fan attendance comparisons between Pitt Stadium and Heinz Field.
It offers evidence that winning has everything to do with how many fans attend Pitt football games... and not whethr the games are plaged in Oakland or the North Side.
Those absent of the facts should print this out and hold on to it for reference during the next debate regarding Pitt attendance.
********
Heinz Field
"Attendance for Panthers games has varied from an average high of 59,197 people per game throughout the 2003 season to a low of 33,680 in 2007. Most recently, Pitt averaged 53,446 in home attendance during the 2009 season."
As for Pitt Stadium...
"Last year (1996), Pitt's 4-7 record was a factor in limiting its attendance to 30,795, down from 33,175 in 1995.
Highest average attendance was 54,818 in 1982.
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written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 11:53 AM
written by estrago, February 15, 2012 - 11:53 AM
Just like Pirate games, the attendance number is not the number of people in the seats. I dont have the number handy but Pitt's last home game vs Syracuse had 15-20K(if that) yet recorded was around 30K
Somehow Steeler fans and the team keep Heinz from being cavernous
Somehow Steeler fans and the team keep Heinz from being cavernous
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written by Ozzypgh, February 15, 2012 - 12:17 PM
written by Ozzypgh, February 15, 2012 - 12:17 PM
Bob, thanks for your comment. I guess the coacing fiasco and national disgrace over the past 2 Decembers, losing a top 25 class - likely setting the program back a few years, losing Wanny's connections to the National Championship years and Marino Era (the golden era), firing all the coaches including the strength coach Buddy Morris, the firing of announcer Bill Fralic for criticizing SP, is not blowing up the program.
All this is just great wonderful stuff that fills seats?? - I will stand by my point until your best friend SP is gone, I don't go to Pitt games. Sorry, but I think SP is the root cause of the issues at Pitt football and the reason for the lack of fans in the seats.
All this is just great wonderful stuff that fills seats?? - I will stand by my point until your best friend SP is gone, I don't go to Pitt games. Sorry, but I think SP is the root cause of the issues at Pitt football and the reason for the lack of fans in the seats.
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written by STATONJM, February 15, 2012 - 12:45 PM
written by STATONJM, February 15, 2012 - 12:45 PM
If Pitt wins, I don't care who the competition is. The fans will show up. Everybody loves a winner.
Pitt will have an experienced quarterback in Sunseri who will be playing in a system that maximizes his abilities. Sunseri will be Bill Stull in 2012. With the weak teams they will be playing they are going to win a lot of games.
Next season is the best thing that could have happened to Pitt. Even though they will not be as talented as they could have been, the Big East is winnable. If WVA had stayed, they would have been the prohibitive favorite to win the conference. Now anybody can win, even Pitt.
If Pitt gets to a BCS game, no one will be checking how many fans attended the 1-AA games they won.
After next year, Pitt should start getting better talent. The future looks pretty good.
Pitt will have an experienced quarterback in Sunseri who will be playing in a system that maximizes his abilities. Sunseri will be Bill Stull in 2012. With the weak teams they will be playing they are going to win a lot of games.
Next season is the best thing that could have happened to Pitt. Even though they will not be as talented as they could have been, the Big East is winnable. If WVA had stayed, they would have been the prohibitive favorite to win the conference. Now anybody can win, even Pitt.
If Pitt gets to a BCS game, no one will be checking how many fans attended the 1-AA games they won.
After next year, Pitt should start getting better talent. The future looks pretty good.
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written by Bob in Vegas, February 15, 2012 - 12:46 PM
written by Bob in Vegas, February 15, 2012 - 12:46 PM
Pitt is never going to sell out Heinz on a consistent basis. If they get back to winning 8-9 games every year attendance will be fine. By that I mean it will no longer be a major topic of discussion.
18 year old recruits dont want to play in a crappy old place with antiquated facilities. Pitt had to make the move.
I firmly believe that the firing of Wanny was an emotional decision by Pederson based on 2 games.
1) the Cincy game with the blown lead
2) the final WVU game where Pitt obviously quit.
If they win either of those 2 games Wanny is without a doubt still the coach today. Pederson reacted more like a frustrated fan than an AD when he made that decision. Im not saying he has done a horrible job, but Dave Wannstedt deserved a better fate.
18 year old recruits dont want to play in a crappy old place with antiquated facilities. Pitt had to make the move.
I firmly believe that the firing of Wanny was an emotional decision by Pederson based on 2 games.
1) the Cincy game with the blown lead
2) the final WVU game where Pitt obviously quit.
If they win either of those 2 games Wanny is without a doubt still the coach today. Pederson reacted more like a frustrated fan than an AD when he made that decision. Im not saying he has done a horrible job, but Dave Wannstedt deserved a better fate.
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written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 12:55 PM
written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 12:55 PM
Wanny was fired because:
1. He couldn't win the Big East & get to a BCS game
2. The rash of arrests by players & subsequent SI article making the program look really bad
A win over Cincy in '09' or '10' would have bought Wanny enough cred with the higher ups to give him at least one more season & then who knows.
1. He couldn't win the Big East & get to a BCS game
2. The rash of arrests by players & subsequent SI article making the program look really bad
A win over Cincy in '09' or '10' would have bought Wanny enough cred with the higher ups to give him at least one more season & then who knows.
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written by bobcatbuzz, February 15, 2012 - 01:14 PM
written by bobcatbuzz, February 15, 2012 - 01:14 PM
Ok Bob, PITT is not at MAC level. You trumpet the fact that not only is PITT not MAC level but the Panthers, excluding last year, had reeled off multiple nine wins seasons and were a game or two from "winning the BigEast Championship"!
Question: IF this is to be considered a major accomplishment for PITT why in the hell did that IDIOT Pederson fire Wannstandt? Did he really think, based on historic analysis of PITT over the past 12-15 years that a Haywood or HighOctaneBoy was really going to catapult the Panthers to 10 win seasons?
Oh in making your case for don't lose sight of the fact that lots of those Panthers nine wins a year come from those very BigEast Conference teams, a conference you and many posters on this board compare to a stale pile of dog-poop, and against a bevy of OCC teams much like this years mighty opponents such as the Youngstown State Penquins, never to confused with the Ohio State Buckeyes. Just sayin!
Question: IF this is to be considered a major accomplishment for PITT why in the hell did that IDIOT Pederson fire Wannstandt? Did he really think, based on historic analysis of PITT over the past 12-15 years that a Haywood or HighOctaneBoy was really going to catapult the Panthers to 10 win seasons?
Oh in making your case for don't lose sight of the fact that lots of those Panthers nine wins a year come from those very BigEast Conference teams, a conference you and many posters on this board compare to a stale pile of dog-poop, and against a bevy of OCC teams much like this years mighty opponents such as the Youngstown State Penquins, never to confused with the Ohio State Buckeyes. Just sayin!
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written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 01:26 PM
written by luvyablue, February 15, 2012 - 01:26 PM
It is far easier to get to the North Shore for a major event, Steelers, than it would beo a similar function in Oakland. That is beyond dispute.
Pitt football took a upturn when it left Pitt Stadium. There was no deemphasis. The team got better, crowds got bigger.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Please, no revisionist history.--- Bob Smizik
I'll dispute it, Bob. We'll have to agree to disagree. You're a member of the media, I'm sure you arrived early for events, you probably never had to fight your way through bumper to bumper traffic if you there at say 6:30 for a 7:00 start time.
I'll concede that Oakland is not easy to get through as there are far more turns (streets) you have to travel through to get to Pitt in Oakland. But I kid you not that it took me 90 minutes to get from Monroeville to the Liberty Bridge on a Saturday night during the most recent concert at Heinz Field. Not once did it ever take me 90 minutes to get from Monroeville to a Pitt for a sporting event / concert.
Comparing the commute time to a Steelers game isn't a great comparison either because for a 1:00pm kick, you know half the fans get there by 7:00am or 8:00am so that they can tailgate. When the fans are arriving at different times all throughout the morning, of course it makes it an easier commute. That's why I used the concert as a better comparison.
On your second argument, I agree with BillDavis. Pitt's football record improved because of Pederson, not because a change of venues. I still contend that a move off campus is de-emphasis of the football program. I've been to three PSU games at NFL stadiums (Giants Stadium, RFK and Three Rivers Stadium). All three of the games did not feel like a college atmosphere. It felt only 10% as good as games on a college campus. I went to several Pitt-PSU games at Pitt Stadium, they all were better experiences than the games PSU played in Giants Stadium, Redskins Stadium and Three Rivers (and PSU won 2 of those 3 games in those venues so the outcome of the game had nothing to do with it). If you want to maximize the revenue for your football program, you have to keep it on campus. I know, that gets back to your where & how question, but as I said that ship has already sailed since Pitt decided to de-emphasize football and emphasize basketball. Pitt could go 12-0 or 11-1 in the ACC for several years and it would still never approach what it was like when Marino was leading the Pitt teams at Pitt Stadium. There's just a big difference between doing it on a college campus and at an NFL stadium. The difference means millions of dollars in fan enthusiasm. Money wise, Pitt would be fine with all the ACC tv money, but the excitement factor will never be as good as it could be compared to playing on campus.
Pitt football took a upturn when it left Pitt Stadium. There was no deemphasis. The team got better, crowds got bigger.
In its final five seasons at Pitt Stadium, Pitt was 19-37. In its next five seasons it was 37-23. Please, no revisionist history.--- Bob Smizik
I'll dispute it, Bob. We'll have to agree to disagree. You're a member of the media, I'm sure you arrived early for events, you probably never had to fight your way through bumper to bumper traffic if you there at say 6:30 for a 7:00 start time.
I'll concede that Oakland is not easy to get through as there are far more turns (streets) you have to travel through to get to Pitt in Oakland. But I kid you not that it took me 90 minutes to get from Monroeville to the Liberty Bridge on a Saturday night during the most recent concert at Heinz Field. Not once did it ever take me 90 minutes to get from Monroeville to a Pitt for a sporting event / concert.
Comparing the commute time to a Steelers game isn't a great comparison either because for a 1:00pm kick, you know half the fans get there by 7:00am or 8:00am so that they can tailgate. When the fans are arriving at different times all throughout the morning, of course it makes it an easier commute. That's why I used the concert as a better comparison.
On your second argument, I agree with BillDavis. Pitt's football record improved because of Pederson, not because a change of venues. I still contend that a move off campus is de-emphasis of the football program. I've been to three PSU games at NFL stadiums (Giants Stadium, RFK and Three Rivers Stadium). All three of the games did not feel like a college atmosphere. It felt only 10% as good as games on a college campus. I went to several Pitt-PSU games at Pitt Stadium, they all were better experiences than the games PSU played in Giants Stadium, Redskins Stadium and Three Rivers (and PSU won 2 of those 3 games in those venues so the outcome of the game had nothing to do with it). If you want to maximize the revenue for your football program, you have to keep it on campus. I know, that gets back to your where & how question, but as I said that ship has already sailed since Pitt decided to de-emphasize football and emphasize basketball. Pitt could go 12-0 or 11-1 in the ACC for several years and it would still never approach what it was like when Marino was leading the Pitt teams at Pitt Stadium. There's just a big difference between doing it on a college campus and at an NFL stadium. The difference means millions of dollars in fan enthusiasm. Money wise, Pitt would be fine with all the ACC tv money, but the excitement factor will never be as good as it could be compared to playing on campus.
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written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 01:39 PM
written by Brashear99, February 15, 2012 - 01:39 PM
luvyablue
You're describing a parkway east problem, not a Heinz Field location problem. How long does it take people to get in our out of town every single day during rush hour on the parkway east? I come from the north hills, pick my brother up in the south hills, & double back to the stadium in no more than 45 mins if there is a lot of traffic.
You're describing a parkway east problem, not a Heinz Field location problem. How long does it take people to get in our out of town every single day during rush hour on the parkway east? I come from the north hills, pick my brother up in the south hills, & double back to the stadium in no more than 45 mins if there is a lot of traffic.
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written by richard, February 15, 2012 - 01:49 PM
written by richard, February 15, 2012 - 01:49 PM
Boofreakinghoo. If Pitt, along with Syracuse, didn't start last year's dominoes falling in the Big East, WVU and TCU stay put. Go play Central Catholic or Woodland Hills. They're going to miss the sellout with WVU too. Maybe they can schedule Akron, Temple or Robert Morris.
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written by garretta, February 15, 2012 - 02:03 PM
written by garretta, February 15, 2012 - 02:03 PM
A question fpr all you "football uber alles" types: If youkeep Pitt Stadium and upgrade it, say to 65,000 seats, what do you do for the basketball program? Fitzgerald Field House didn't (and still doesn't) seat even 7,000 people, and if you're not going to let gootball play off-campus, why would it be okay for basketball to do the same (at either Mellon Arena or Consol Energy Center, both of which are/were the "Penguins' arena" as much as Heinz Field is the "Steelers' stadium".)
Also keep in mind that whovever the athletic dorector is, he has a responsibility to make sure all sports, from football to women's track to diving, are competitive. Just because football is on top of the mountain doesn't mean that it's the mountain's only resident. No athletic director can surivive with only one decent program, even if that program is football. Most other football schools have decent programs in at least a few other sports as well, be it basketball, baseball, or whatever. Relegating your basketball programs to an arena that's more antiquated then even your football stadium was would have spelled the competitive end for Pitt basketball, shich would have been every bit as nuch of a shame as the supposed "MACization" of football has been.
Just because the average Pittsburgh sports fan dowsn't care about most Pitt sports dowsn't mean that Pederson still doesn't have a responsibility to make them competitive for the sake of keeping his job. If playing at an NFL stadium and shating an NFL practive facility with one of the greatest organizations in pro sports is what he has to suffer to make those minor sports competitive, I'm sure he'd bite that bullet every time.
Very well stated. -- Bob Smizik
Also keep in mind that whovever the athletic dorector is, he has a responsibility to make sure all sports, from football to women's track to diving, are competitive. Just because football is on top of the mountain doesn't mean that it's the mountain's only resident. No athletic director can surivive with only one decent program, even if that program is football. Most other football schools have decent programs in at least a few other sports as well, be it basketball, baseball, or whatever. Relegating your basketball programs to an arena that's more antiquated then even your football stadium was would have spelled the competitive end for Pitt basketball, shich would have been every bit as nuch of a shame as the supposed "MACization" of football has been.
Just because the average Pittsburgh sports fan dowsn't care about most Pitt sports dowsn't mean that Pederson still doesn't have a responsibility to make them competitive for the sake of keeping his job. If playing at an NFL stadium and shating an NFL practive facility with one of the greatest organizations in pro sports is what he has to suffer to make those minor sports competitive, I'm sure he'd bite that bullet every time.
Very well stated. -- Bob Smizik
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written by Imma Man! Im 40!, February 15, 2012 - 03:00 PM
written by Imma Man! Im 40!, February 15, 2012 - 03:00 PM
I've been reading with some amusement as y'all try to convince Smiz that building Pitt Stadium Part Deux makes sense. Bob is right on this point. It simply doesn't make sense.
I'm in the engineering & construction biz, and my SWAG at the cost will easily exceed $1 billion (my SWAG is $1.5B).
The stadium itself is (relatively) peanuts: maybe $400M for decent amenities, depending on size.
There's simply nowhere to build, that's the major obstacle. So you'd have to acquire several 100s of houses, and raze them.
Where/how will the lost housing for 1000s of students and local residents be replaced?
Current access from Parkway West is abysmal now, and you want to add peak CFB game traffic to it? Okay, if so, you gotta build a highway and/or a light-rail link and station (maybe both).
So we have no land, no access, and not an extra $1.4B laying around. Otherwise, great idea.
Hey, I sat in Pitt Stadium for 4 years too. I also used to sit in 3-Rivers and Memorial Stadiums for Buccos and Orioles games. They're all gone, not coming back. They were pits, all three of them, when demolished... and their replacements are better in every way. This is called progress.
I'm in the engineering & construction biz, and my SWAG at the cost will easily exceed $1 billion (my SWAG is $1.5B).
The stadium itself is (relatively) peanuts: maybe $400M for decent amenities, depending on size.
There's simply nowhere to build, that's the major obstacle. So you'd have to acquire several 100s of houses, and raze them.
Where/how will the lost housing for 1000s of students and local residents be replaced?
Current access from Parkway West is abysmal now, and you want to add peak CFB game traffic to it? Okay, if so, you gotta build a highway and/or a light-rail link and station (maybe both).
So we have no land, no access, and not an extra $1.4B laying around. Otherwise, great idea.
Hey, I sat in Pitt Stadium for 4 years too. I also used to sit in 3-Rivers and Memorial Stadiums for Buccos and Orioles games. They're all gone, not coming back. They were pits, all three of them, when demolished... and their replacements are better in every way. This is called progress.
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written by Imma Man! Im 40!, February 15, 2012 - 03:05 PM
written by Imma Man! Im 40!, February 15, 2012 - 03:05 PM
Reply to Bob in Vegas: "I firmly believe that the firing of Wanny was an emotional decision by Pederson based on 2 games.
1) the Cincy game with the blown lead
2) the final WVU game where Pitt obviously quit."
Could be. But I'll see your Cincy and WVU games, and raise you the UConn game last year. Sheesh that was an ugly game. Pitt wins that game, he's still head coach (and maybe even special teams coordinator, the downfall in most of their ugly losses in 2009 and 2010).
1) the Cincy game with the blown lead
2) the final WVU game where Pitt obviously quit."
Could be. But I'll see your Cincy and WVU games, and raise you the UConn game last year. Sheesh that was an ugly game. Pitt wins that game, he's still head coach (and maybe even special teams coordinator, the downfall in most of their ugly losses in 2009 and 2010).
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written by Bingram, February 15, 2012 - 04:52 PM
written by Bingram, February 15, 2012 - 04:52 PM
The bottom line is, the team wins and there is an interesting slate of opponents, it will draw. Otherwise, not so much.
Pitt Stadium, no parking. You find your way to Oakland and park where you can. You climb a mountain, and sit on a splintery board having a cold hot dog and a warm soda. Those are your options. If you need to go to the bathroom, you have an unheated shed that is barely above an outhouse. There is no place to escape the weather.
Heinz Field, thousands of parking spaces within a half mile. A subway stop across the street. Bars, clubs and restaurants within shouting distance. Chairs to sit in. All sorts of food and drink options. Televisions everywhere.
Pitt pays to use the Heinz Field on the days it has a game. It doesn't have the year round expense of upkeep on a 75 year old building that is used seven or eight times a year. It has a building on campus that has multiple purposes and is used every single day by both students as well as student athletes.
It's a no-brainer...
Pitt Stadium, no parking. You find your way to Oakland and park where you can. You climb a mountain, and sit on a splintery board having a cold hot dog and a warm soda. Those are your options. If you need to go to the bathroom, you have an unheated shed that is barely above an outhouse. There is no place to escape the weather.
Heinz Field, thousands of parking spaces within a half mile. A subway stop across the street. Bars, clubs and restaurants within shouting distance. Chairs to sit in. All sorts of food and drink options. Televisions everywhere.
Pitt pays to use the Heinz Field on the days it has a game. It doesn't have the year round expense of upkeep on a 75 year old building that is used seven or eight times a year. It has a building on campus that has multiple purposes and is used every single day by both students as well as student athletes.
It's a no-brainer...
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written by Knuterock, February 15, 2012 - 08:09 PM
written by Knuterock, February 15, 2012 - 08:09 PM
Bob
Don't worry about Pitt selling football tickets. In the next couple of weeks, I'll probably get a flyer from the athletic department like this:
Dear Pitt Football Season ticket holder,
aka "Sucker"
Due to high demand and the competitive nature of Pitt football, our ticket purchasing policy has changed for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. Anyone interested in purchasing season tickets for the 2016 game against Penn State, must commit, by the end of February, to buying season tickets for the 2012 & 2013 football seasons.
We cannot guarantee your seats for the Pitt Penn State game in 2016 unless you are able to purchase both season tickets this year. As a token of appreciation, we will allow you to purchase a parking pass, but only if you agree to park in the garage near Heinz Field, which unfortunately takes 2-3 hours to get of.
In the event you cannot commit to buying season tickets this year, we may have a limited amount of tickets available to the Youngstown state game in early September. Again, because Pitt football tickets are in such high demand, we have to couple the Youngstown state game with a yet to be determined Div. 1-AA team.
Panther priority points are available for purchase, but have no real meaning or value. 1 $ per 1 point. Minimum purchase of 2000 points at a time.
Your athletic department is hard at working making sure the best possible college football experience is available to you.
All game times in the future will be released the Friday before the game, to allow ample planing time for you and other fans. We will look at the Pirate schedule a couple of days before the game to avoid an over crowded situations.
Hail to Pitt
Steve
Don't worry about Pitt selling football tickets. In the next couple of weeks, I'll probably get a flyer from the athletic department like this:
Dear Pitt Football Season ticket holder,
aka "Sucker"
Due to high demand and the competitive nature of Pitt football, our ticket purchasing policy has changed for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. Anyone interested in purchasing season tickets for the 2016 game against Penn State, must commit, by the end of February, to buying season tickets for the 2012 & 2013 football seasons.
We cannot guarantee your seats for the Pitt Penn State game in 2016 unless you are able to purchase both season tickets this year. As a token of appreciation, we will allow you to purchase a parking pass, but only if you agree to park in the garage near Heinz Field, which unfortunately takes 2-3 hours to get of.
In the event you cannot commit to buying season tickets this year, we may have a limited amount of tickets available to the Youngstown state game in early September. Again, because Pitt football tickets are in such high demand, we have to couple the Youngstown state game with a yet to be determined Div. 1-AA team.
Panther priority points are available for purchase, but have no real meaning or value. 1 $ per 1 point. Minimum purchase of 2000 points at a time.
Your athletic department is hard at working making sure the best possible college football experience is available to you.
All game times in the future will be released the Friday before the game, to allow ample planing time for you and other fans. We will look at the Pirate schedule a couple of days before the game to avoid an over crowded situations.
Hail to Pitt
Steve
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written by richard, February 15, 2012 - 08:31 PM
written by richard, February 15, 2012 - 08:31 PM
If Pitt produces a winning program, one that is in the hunt for a conference championship and a BCS bid they'll draw just fine. If they continue to produce teams that struggle to beat Buffalo and Maine they won't. Go look at the attendance figures at old Pitt Stadium before Johnny Majors turned it around. No one went to the games. Why? They stunk. It was right there on Cardiac Hill but no one wanted to watch a Pitt team that didn't compete and had no chance at winning. Winning solves attendance ills.
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written by rokinray, February 16, 2012 - 02:41 AM
written by rokinray, February 16, 2012 - 02:41 AM
Just because it didn't happen in most fan's lifetimes doesn't mean it wasn't once the caes, but PItt used to outdraw the Steelers and the largest crowds in city history saw more than 67,000 attend games between Pitt and Fordham in the late 1930's. WVU was no guarantee of a sellout the last few times they played at Field. The end of street car service hurt Pitt Stadium, a place I miss dearly. Replacing it would require more than a good powerball win. We are stuck going to Grandpa Rooney's house with the plastic covered furniture no one is allowed to sit on and a gestapo security staff that ruins the game day experience for the students that put up with the indignity of riding a yellow school bus to Heinz.
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written by heartbeatsings, February 16, 2012 - 08:11 AM
@Imma Man: Pitt and UPMC own about 2/3 of Oakland, give or take. Many of the buildings are old and incredibly inefficient--they could realize huge energy savings by razing them and building new ones, for instance.
If there was a will and a vision among Pitt administration, space could be found for a new stadium. As the years go by and the old time residents of Oaklad die out, most of the houses in Oakland are bought up by landlords who rent them to students and are basically slums. They would do the students a big favor by razing them and providing better alternatives.
As far as traffic, college football games are typically played on Saturday afternoons, so traffic is not really a big issue. And it wasn't a big issue when Pitt Stadium was there. At real college football, fans come early and stay late because they love being back on campus.
written by heartbeatsings, February 16, 2012 - 08:11 AM
There's simply nowhere to build, that's the major obstacle. So you'd have to acquire several 100s of houses, and raze them.
@Imma Man: Pitt and UPMC own about 2/3 of Oakland, give or take. Many of the buildings are old and incredibly inefficient--they could realize huge energy savings by razing them and building new ones, for instance.
If there was a will and a vision among Pitt administration, space could be found for a new stadium. As the years go by and the old time residents of Oaklad die out, most of the houses in Oakland are bought up by landlords who rent them to students and are basically slums. They would do the students a big favor by razing them and providing better alternatives.
As far as traffic, college football games are typically played on Saturday afternoons, so traffic is not really a big issue. And it wasn't a big issue when Pitt Stadium was there. At real college football, fans come early and stay late because they love being back on campus.
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Pitt not suing to get out early like WVU did was a HUGE mistake.
Big East football is extremely pathetic.