Losers on the field... But winners at the gate

Season XX starts April 2012

So much for multiple legit prospects here. What a joke.

Have no fear everyone. Tony Sanchez who has more broken jaws than hits at the triple A level will be here soon and he will justify his #4 overall pick in the draft!

I agree Bob, not a huge fan of Barajas. I think they should have tried to bring back Snyder who signed with the Astros for under a million bucks.

It will be interesting to see if Sanchez is ready to come up after June.

In his tenure with the Dodgers, the only team I really saw Barajas hit against was the Pirates.
If he plays his cards right, he might get that chance again in late July.

Snyder has a bad back, was less than advertised defensively, and didn't light up the field on offense. Doumit didn't seem to happy to be here, besides being somewhat fragile, and a defensive liability.

I can't blame the Pirates for releasing either one.

Barajas is a 36 year-old who knows this is the end of the line. I doubt whether he cares much what happens this year.

The Pirates are where major-leaguers come to retire.

As Matt Morris said: "Dave, I can't thank you enough."

The dollars are less under Neal, but the sentiment is the same.

What I still cannot fathom, is that Lee would rather retire than earn $8 million playing here.

I'd play in Kabul, Tehran and/or Pyongyang for that dosh. Baseball hell, indeed.

IMPORTANT:

From Reg Henry's blog here at the P-G:

Fair warning: I am not at liberty to give details at the moment but early next month many of the blogs at the PG are changing — and these changes may remove the rationale for this one.

Don't know what it means, but could it affect this blog?



First I've heard of this. -- Bob Smizik

As Matt Morris said: "Dave, I can't thank you enough."

Actually, it was Jeremy Burnitz who said that famous line.

What I still cannot fathom, is that Lee would rather retire than earn $8 million playing here.

I'd play in Kabul, Tehran and/or Pyongyang for that dosh. Baseball hell, indeed.

Or as I like to call it, The Siberian Naked Winter League -- those players who would rather play in Siberia in the dead of winter, wearing nothing but a glove, rather than play for the Pirates.

Yeah, Barajas isn't anything special but he should be good for at least a dozen homers this year, even with the expanded left field at PNC.

The catcher I'll be keeping a close eye on is Tony Sanchez. It's a shame he's had the injury setbacks. This is a big year for him in the minors.

written by Daquido_Bazzini, February 23, 2012 - 01:43 AM
In his tenure with the Dodgers, the only team I really saw Barajas hit against was the Pirates.

What's this statement supposed to mean anyway. Obviously anyone who follows the Pirates could have cared less what Rod Barajas did against anyone else but alas

In his tenure with the Dodgers against the Pirates.
AB R H HR RBI
15 1 6 0 1

In his tenure with the Dodgers against the Rockies
AB R H HR RBI
55 13 22 5 13

Were you short on time to make your post and just figured this guy only hit .230 and couldn't have hit against anyone else? I understand these averages are the same (both are .400)and both are small samples but look at the difference in production.

I understand your disdain for everything Pirates and your right to spew it on a daily basis but please when you do, bring facts to the discussion.



How dare you interject facts into a discussion. -- Bob Smizik

written by PittsburghSportsRocker, February 23, 2012 - 01:23 AM
Have no fear everyone. Tony Sanchez who has more broken jaws than hits at the triple A level will be here soon and he will justify his #4 overall pick in the draft!

(facepalm)
What an in depth and thought out post. How long did it take to come up with this? It certainly adds nothing of value to the blog. I am sure it will go well with the overall theme today though. By the way I see you left it rather opened ended for yourself. I am sure this is in case Sanchez does pan out you can say you were behind it all the way.

Catching Grade D?

Well OK Bob, so much for optimism, an assumed requirement every spring for baseball fans. At least I used to think that it was.


Sure, Barajas is not the next coming of Johnny Bench but he can't possibly be on track for his Pirate career in the same way that Benito Santiago was either, right?

Offensively he's likely to suffer some loss of homerun power at PNC (unfortunately Jim Pagliaroni's record appears to be safe) and since his batting average/OBP and speed are abysmal, things don't look particularly encouraging. But hey, it could be worse, doncha think?

His defense by most accounts is his strength, but with the steady drop over the last few years in his ability to throw out baserunners there is some concern that his good game calling may not be enough to bring him up to league average defensively. Well yeah, but he'll be better than Doumit won't he?

Of course there is the fact that he is 36 years old. Sure, Carlton Fisk played until he was 60 (seemed like it anyway) but for normal major league players 36 is an age at which perhaps we shouldn't expect reversals of career trends other than relentless inexorable decline to occur.

OK, but The Pirates do have a proven back-up. Michael 'The Fort' McHenry. At Barajas' age the need for a good back-up is magnified because he will likely get significant playing time. McHenry brings a weak bat and questionable defense to the table which puts him on a path to Pirate catching greatness somewhere considerably south of Bob Oldis and Steve Nicosia. And this guy could conceivably be asked to catch 60-70 games this year. Uh-huh.

Hmmmm. Well, Bob it appears our hope for escape from this black hole of a position is journeyman Jose Morales (he of the 96 ABs in the last 2 years)or former No. 1 pick Tony Sanchez who was last seen struggling at AA and leading with his jaw in bar fights.

Well Bob, I apologize. Grade D, you were being optimistic afterall!

McKenry's short arms doesn't help him defensively either.

...
I realize Snyder was not worth the $$ and so his option was not exercised, but for what he signed for one wonders if he would have been a better option at backup.

With Barajas looking to get 80 starts (per statements by the PBC) IF he stays healthy, that leaves an 82 game gap to makeup from jump. McKenry is a great kid, but just doesn't have the chops for this level.

Jose

...
Did anyone else hear FC put his foot into it last night during the pre-season Pep Rally put on by The Fan?

After the hard-hitting Morning Team got done fawning all over him, FC "explained" the review process MLB does when more than $1 million in salary relief is included in a trade.

This is just a parapharase as I was in the the car, but FC said "These deals come about with players Who Are No Longer Worth Their Salaries and so the club trading them will pick up part to bring them in line..." (emphasis mine).

Now, I would not disagree with the statement that Burnett is not pitching to the level of his contract but for FC to come out and say that about the Crown Jewel of the pitching staff...

Oh, and Morning Team? Great stuff about how good looking FC is - all that friendly banter lets me know that you all are just one big happy family and that when the time comes for objective analysis about the PBC I will need to look elsewhere.

Jose



The Fan is in a honeymoon period with the Pirates and the fawning it to be expected. I'd be surprised and disappointed if once the season gets underway they are not more discerning. -- Bob Smizik

Letting Doumit go shows a lack of commitment to winning. Would he have been overpayed? Almost certainly. Isn't Barrajas? Doumit, at least, could hit. And for a team as starved for offense as this is, you can't subtract that and be honest in saying you are trying to win.



Doumit's contract called for the Pirates to pick up both 2012 and 2013, if they chose to exercise their option. That would have been something like $15 million. They were right to let him go. -- Bob Smizik

(facepalm)
What an in depth and thought out post. How long did it take to come up with this? It certainly adds nothing of value to the blog. I am sure it will go well with the overall theme today though. By the way I see you left it rather opened ended for yourself. I am sure this is in case Sanchez does pan out you can say you were behind it all the way.

Speaking of "in depth and thought out posts", this little gem right here makes you quite the hypocrite, yes?

Way back when I played Little League, the short, pudgy kid caught. Looks like the Pirates feel the same about catching. Wonder how Matt Weiters would look behind the plate at PNC

No offense taken. After 19 years, any offense will be an improvment.

Catcher and shortstop are the two positions where you can accept lack of offense as long as the defense of the player is strong. I have no problem with Barajas hitting .220 as long as he calls a good game and has a strong glove. He is twice the catcher Doumit is.

The real problem with the Pirates is the lack of punch at the usual power positions of first, third and corner outfield. The lack of bats at these positions unfairly focues attention on weak offense at short & catcher where defense MUST be the first consideration. If you don't realize this then you don't know baseball.

Presley is unproven, injury-prone Tabata has not shown any pop, Alvarez is a huge question mark and the Garrett Jones-Casey McGehee combo at first could be a nightmare of K's. And there is no one below them any better. Focusing on the offense of the catcher position is way down the list.



It is extremely difficult to determine how well a catcher calls a game. It invariably depends on who's pitching, not who's catching.
For what it's worth, four catchers caught almost all the innings for the Dodgers last season. Here are their names and the team ERA when they were behind the plate:

Federowicz: 3.15
Navarro: 3.47
Barajas: 3.58
Ellis: 3.65.

-- Bob Smizik

Have no fear everyone. Tony Sanchez who has more broken jaws than hits at the triple A level will be here soon and he will justify his #4 overall pick in the draft!

@B to the C
If you want to back up this up as something meaningful go right ahead, I'm sure you'll fit right in


Pay no mind, lomez, your first two critiques were spot-on. -- Bob Smizik

One thing about Rod Barajas.
He will be there to play.
I go to a lot of D-backs games and have over the years. Inexpensive way to beat the heat here. He was awesome in Phoenix, but that was a number of years ago.
The guy is a baller, though. Plays hard all of the time and over the years has worked with some pretty good staffs. Tough guy type who is the typical old school catcher.
An upgrade over last year I believe. Sometimes we forget some positions have value not recognized statistically.
I'm giving Tony Sanchez this year to really make strides. If it doesn't happen this year I may start to go along with some of you on that pick...
C'mon Tony, first rounder, dude. I backed him hoping he would join that line of stellar ACC catchers. We'll see. This year is huge for him.
Oh, 80 degrees today. No work tomorrow. It's the links or spring training...
Go Bucs!

I think the Pirates made a mistake by dumping Jason Jaramillo earlier this year. He would have been a much better back up than the Fort--he's better both offensively and defensively.

I am not worried about the catching position. Mr. Coonelly said they will be bringing in "weapons". Since he has always been forthright and honest I KNOW the Pirates still aren't done bringing in free agents. There has got to be someone left out there to hit home runs.

Too bad everyone else has already signed the "weapons".

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...all_110211

I think the Pirates made a mistake by dumping Jason Jaramillo earlier this year. He would have been a much better back up than the Fort--he's better both offensively and defensively.

I agree, If Barajas goes down and also the games he has to sit out the Pirates are in same shape or worse as last year. The only thing different in the depth chart is Morales.

What is the combined WAR of the catching position?

A+ title, Bob.

I personally don't think that Doumit's bat makes him a significant upgrade over Barajas. Sure, he's better, but it comes at a position where defense is much, much more valuable. He's a true American Leaguer, which is why he's playing in Minnesota right now.

Also, as it applies to this team specifically, I don't care much about percentage of runners thrown out. I'd much rather have a guy that can control a young pitching staff. Doumit never showed me anything close to that inate ability to call a game or work with a pitcher that all good catchers possess. It sounds like this is one of the intangibles that Barajas might have.

C



From above, the catcher's ERAs with LA last year:
Federowicz: 3.15
Navarro: 3.47
Barajas: 3.58
Ellis: 3.65.

-- Bob Smizik

I guess we get a bunch of fluff pieces to look forward to leading up to Season XX such as:

"New catcher Barajas brings experience, pitch-calling savvy" & "Catcher Barajas thrills Pirching staff"

With headlines like these, how could you possibly grade the position a D, Bob......

Bob, nice assessment. I agree. They downgraded at catcher. Doumit, while a decent hitter was not much behind the plate. I would agree that I do not think he wanted to be here anymore. Could you blame him?

Barajas is an old washed up vet the pirates love for a season or half a season. He may do ok with he younger pitchers, but again just a rent a player who cannot bat. McKenry is average to below average. Ho-hum.

As usual with the bucs, putting all their money on their one and only prospect. Better hope Snyder pans out.

My Grade Catchers - D-

written by Nuttingfan4eva, February 23, 2012 - 07:30 AM

@B to the C

The irony was completely lost on lomez. Some people don't realize that complaining about other people's post bringing no value to the discussion also doen't add any value.

Yeah, you're right the entire blog should entail those types of posts, wait a minute some days they already do. And the blog would definitely lose its way if the posters on here who have their feelings compromised and are butthurt by Nutting couldn't show their disdain.

Someone had mentioned the Pirates love fest on the fan last night. I only got to listen to about 30 minutes of it. It made no sense to have Filliponi on the show--it's bad enough when you have 3 people asking questions without listening to the answers, but add in the annoying Poni and his worthless blather and it's almost impossible to sit through.

As someone said, it was basically a feel-good, PR show for the Bucs. Nothing you wouldn't expect from the new flagship.

this is the area where the Littlefield regime blew it. This position should not even be an issue with Matt Weiters behind the plate.

"Fair warning: I am not at liberty to give details at the moment but early next month many of the blogs at the PG are changing — and these changes may remove the rationale for this one."

Can mean only one thing. Nutting bought the P-G

I knew as the new 'flagship' there was going to be a lot of fluff on 'The Fan' last night.

I didn't expect the morning team and Fillapponi's breath smelling like everything FC and NH had for dinner last night though, because that was nothing but a three hours french kissing contest last night.

Unreal.

Nuttingfan, re, "Mr. Coonelly said they will be bringing in "weapons".

To paraphrase Sean Connery in "The Untouchables", "Just like a Nutting to bring a knife to a gunfight."

This position definitely appears to be shaping up as a weakness for the Bucs. Barajas may be serviceable in the position, but McHenry has to step up the offense big time.

As for Sanchez, he and his glass jaw will guarantee losses in most all basebrawls the Pirates engage in once he arrives.

After reading several reviews of "the Fan", I am happy I have not wasted one second of my life listening to it.

Unfortunately, I will have to this season if I want to listen to any games.

@B to the C
If you want to back up this up as something meaningful go right ahead, I'm sure you'll fit right in

Yeah, you're right the entire blog should entail those types of posts, wait a minute some days they already do. And the blog would definitely lose its way if the posters on here who have their feelings compromised and are butthurt by Nutting couldn't show their disdain.

And 2 more pointless posts.

Apparently, you're a very large part of the problem that you're crying about.

Physician, heal thyself.

P.S. Speaking of being butthurt, it's pretty apparent that you have yourself all in a dither who aren't buying what garbage Nutting and FO are selling. Y U MAD?

The irony was completely lost on lomez. Some people don't realize that complaining about other people's post bringing no value to the discussion also doen't add any value.

What's really funny is that it is still completely lost on him.

Y U MAD?

No, I'm not buying some of it either. We will see the full extent in 6-18 months. You mad bro?




Gentlemen: Please end it here. -- Bob Smizik

Gentlemen: Please end it here. -- Bob Smizik

10-4

...
It is going to be really difficult for The Fan to allow any sort of objective criticism that makes one of their products (PBC broadcasts) show in a bad light. While I realize last night was promotional more than anything else, the fawning was almost sickening.

I am glad I got home before Filliponi came on. That whole evening shift there is like a wasteland. Having the games on solves a big problem for them, in my opinion, as they just don't have anyone really worth listening too. Just a lot of pot-stirring.

Jose

Lomez...isn't that Kramer's friend? The Orthodox Jew...you know, old school?

...
I was more interested in FC's comment last night. I wonder how Burnett feels after being described by the Club President and Co-GM as not being worth his salary and an addition worth making only because the Yanks were willing to take on a significant portion of the salary.

Welcome to the PBC, AJ. Only 5 months to the trading deadline...

Jose

written by BFD, February 23, 2012 - 07:46 AM
I guess we get a bunch of fluff pieces to look forward to leading up to Season XX such as:

"New catcher Barajas brings experience, pitch-calling savvy" & "Catcher Barajas thrills Pirching staff"
---------------------------------------------------------------

That is what I am talking about. I read that sickening sweet article about the thrilled pitching staff.

The sports journalists in this town give Nutting and his pathetic club a free ride when they should be all over him like flies on sh$t.



Baseball writers have been penning positive articles from spring training since the first spring training. Let's relax on the coverage in the early days of ST. -- Bob Smizik

It would also love to know the UZR, XYZPDQ, LOL, and LMAO stats of our catching staff.

Haha, I laughed...

@BlueSinSav
I think so but I just grabbed the name when a site randomly threw names at me one day. I am a Seinfeld fanatic though.

...
It is like a zombie movie, BFD. Articles about Mckenry picking Barajas' brain, articles about Morton picking Burnett's brain..."Aim for the Brain!!"

Signed,
Night of the Living Jose

@Jose

So true. Especially after Burnett went above the standard cliches to describe how he was actually glad for a change of scenery.

Nice to have your team President describe you so highly.

I wonder how Frank would feel if AJ had said he was glad to get out of New York and play for a team that nobody expects to succeed because of the inept management?

...
Speaking of the puff pieces, great to see Captain Bromide (Hurdle) in mid-season form as he informed us that "Barajas brings some barrel."

Really.

Whatever happened to "We think he can still hit."

Here is to another season of candidates for Gene Collier's Trite Trophy...

Jose "The Only Barrel I Care About is a Barrel of Pils from Osnabrueck" Pagan

Bob,

Doumit's contract called for the Pirates to pick up both 2012 and 2013, if they chose to exercise their option. That would have been something like $15 million. They were right to let him go. -- Bob Smizik

This is very true, however, let's take a look at this another way....

Doumit signed a 1 yr, $3M deal with the Twins to back up arguably the best catcher in baseball Joe Mauer.

So what would have been wrong with brining Doumit back on a 2 yr deal at $4M or $5M each to start for the Pirates?

Wouldn't that have been a better solution to the current solution of Barajas (An old Cedeno with power who can only play 90 some games a season) and no-hit, no-throw McKenry?

People act as if exercising Doumit's 2 yr option was the only option possible and that's not the case.



That certainly was an avenue they could have pursued. However, I think Doumit wanted out of here in the worse way. I would think he'd be more value in the AL than in the NL so the salary the Twins gave him might be his true value. That said, the Pirates could have overpaid. Your point is valid. -- Bob Smizik

...
NMR: That is kind of how I interpreted Burnett's comments!

"Yes, Morning Team from The Fan, anything I do here that is remotely positive will be viewed as a major accomplishment. I can't lose. If I suck, it will be explained away because the team sucks. If I win a few, it will be because I still "have it."'

Jose

The sports journalists in this town give Nutting and his pathetic club a free ride when they should be all over him like flies on sh$t.

Why? Nutting gives them plenty of news, which is what they report and/or write columns and blogs about. Sure, most would love for the team to win, but their salary gets paid either way. Let's not blame "the media" yet again.

As for the actual topic at hand, Barajas in my opinion is an upgrade solely because I expect he will stay healthy enough to play 70% of the team's games, which is something Doumit could never be counted on to do. Doumit is perfect in Minnesota where he can DH most of the time and spell Mauer on afternoon games and maybe 1B or RF once in a while. I'd rather have Doumit here if someone could guarantee that 70% of the games, but I just can't see that happening. He has a much better shot at staying healthy in the AL.

I think so but I just grabbed the name when a site randomly threw names at me one day. I am a Seinfeld fanatic though.
------------------------------------------------

That explains it.

OK, but The Pirates do have a proven back-up. Michael

Yes, a proven .222 hitter who throws out 14% of would be base stealers.

written by Darkhorses, February 23, 2012 - 07:11 AM

Way back when I played Little League, the short, pudgy kid caught.

HEY WATCH IT BUSTER! - I resemble that remark!

I caught from farm league up through high school and colt league for that very reason.

I may have been short and pudgy and lacking even the slightest bit of athletic ability, but I was also tough!

...
Please, I think Doumit stunk it up defensively, but claiming Barajas will be more durable is specious.

The PBC have said that maybe he will catch 80 games this season.

Doumit played:

77 games in 2011
124 games in 2010
75 games in 2009
116 games in 2008
83 games in 2007

In effect, NH has signed an older, weaker-hitting catcher who may actually be less durable than Ryan Doumit.

Jose

The sports journalists in this town give Nutting and his pathetic club a free ride when they should be all over him like flies on sh$t.

Yes. It is disgusting to listen to.

@Nutting4Xmas
No, but somebody has to stir the pot in the other direction, happens on most every blog I read. Wouldn't be any fun if everyone agreed and got away with throwing around hyperbole an untruths. I'm done for the day though on orders from the top.

One thing about Rod Barajas.
He will be there to play.

Yes, that is exactly right. For about 90 games, or roughly 56% of the season.

He won't hit much, won't throw out very many baserunnrers, but he'll very likely be ready to play in 56% of the teams games.

In the immortal words of Bart Scott.....

CAN'T WAIT!!!!

written by BlueSinSav, February 23, 2012 - 08:30 AM Lomez...isn't that Kramer's friend? The Orthodox Jew...you know, old school?

What about Kramers friend Bob Sacamano?????

...
Barajas appeared in:

98 games in 2011
99 games in 2010
125 games in 2009
104 games in 2008
48 games in 2007

Neal is brilliant. Of course, Doumit may not have been tempted to resign here, but my point remains the same. This is not an upgrade. In fact, Hostage makes a reasonable argument above to have kept Doumit. That thought gives me the creeps but there is merit to it.

Jose

Personally, I was real tired of the Doumit drama. It was time he moved on.

written by Scooter, February 23, 2012 - 02:22 AM
What I still cannot fathom, is that Lee would rather retire than earn $8 million playing here.

This is untrue. The only place I can find this claim is on fan blogs such as Rum Bunter or comments on this blog. The only facts on Derrick Lee I can find by sources with professional standards on fact-checking is that Lee will only accept a contract where he is expected to be the full time starter at 1B. Even the foolish PBC front office wouldn't give that to him. THAT is why he rebuffed the Pirates' offers.

If the Pirates are where MLB goes to retire, then this blog is where rumors on Pittsburgh sports are passed along as fact.



I think Lee had every right to believe he'd be the full-time starter at first base. The Pirates didn't offer him arbitration and the $8 million that comes with it to platoon. -- Bob Smizik

Fangraphs, one of the most respected statistical analysis forums around, rates Barajas the 28th best catcher in the majors. Given his age, this may be optimistic. Yet the Pirates sought him out and signed him to be their starting catcher. No team that prioritized winning would do so.

So what would have been wrong with brining Doumit back on a 2 yr deal at $4M or $5M each to start for the Pirates?

-------------------------------------------------

Um........HE'S NOT DURABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Must admit I did "fall in love" with McHenry briefly last season after that game winning homer during the winning apparition. But obviously he can't hit OR throw anyone out. This think about Barajas or any cathcer "calling a great game" is very much like a coordinator in football. How much is what pitch is called or who makes the pitch? Pitcher can shake off any pitch just like a QB can audible out of any play. Is it great pitch calling when a fielder makes a great play? Is it play calling if a receiver makes a great catch? Hmmmm.

I don't particularly think Barajas is an upgrade, but I also don't pin it on the FO for failing to resign him.

Were any NL teams in the running to sign Doumit?

I could easily see him putting up 25 hr/75 rbi numbers splitting maybe 60 games at catcher, 60 games at DH.

Seems to me he realizes that is where his value lies. Can't blame the guy.

...
Agreed, Arriba. Doumit leaving is actually addition by subtraction, in my opinion. Replacing him with Barajas though, does nothing to upgrade the position.

Jose

This position definitely appears to be shaping up as a weakness for the Bucs.

One of five or six. Jason Varitek and Jason Kendall are both available.

@hunter

I think you're significantly undervaluing the role of a catcher when it comes to calling a game.

Sure, Barajas isn't going to turn Charlie Morton into Sandy Koufax, but the football vs. baseball comparison doesn't work.

The old addage is that hitting is about timing, pitching is about disrupting timing.

A pitcher can have a 100mph fastball and knee-buckling curve, but if he becomes predictable he'll get shelled.



Please note the stats I posted above. They indicate Barajas is nothing special at calling a game. --- Bob Smizik

Speaking of Ryan, where's Andy?

McKenry and Barahas will be terrific, all this will be forgotten and we will certainly not miss Doumit or Snyder one bit.

Looking forward to a fun season with the Pirates this year -- ENJOY!

Yeah Max I think it happened just the other day when posters were laughing at some guy vain enough to refer to himself in the 3rd person.

Anyone care to recall which other catchers were available this off season? Not making a referendum on what other options NH had, just curious.

Frankly, I don't even remember when Barajas was signed. Talk about an inspiring move.



Ramon Hernandez was the only free-agent catcher ranked ahead of Barajas. -- Bob Smizik

Barajas was considered the 2nd best catcher free agent after Ramon Hernandez of the Reds



Damning with faint praise. -- Bob Smizik

.
I think it was a given that Lee would not be back so knowing that I would have picked up the option on Doumit who can hit when healthy and let him play 1B. His offensive ability is worth what his option was, he simply is not strong enough defensively or calling pitches to be a regular catcher.

Doumit and Jones could have shared most of the time at 1B and Casey McGehee and Alvarez could split time at 3B and behind the plate let Barajas and Morales split time with Doumit sometimes catching perhaps for a specific pitcher who excels with his calling pitches.

Given our huge need for offense and the age and health of many of our older players we could still use Doumit's bat and the flexibility provided.

written by Scooter, February 23, 2012 - 02:22 AM
... What I still cannot fathom, is that Lee would rather retire than earn $8 million playing here.


Really? when you are a professional athlete and the work product is subpar with no feeling of urgency to win or even compete at a decent level, sometimes the money just doesn't matter.
It is easy for you and I to argue that walking away from 8 big ones is insane, but put yourself in Lee's shoes. He's had a very good career and already made his money. All that would have been left is to tarnish his legacy playing for the Pirates.

If I were in his place I would have probably made the same choice. Sometimes money just doesn't cut it.

Not according to "Kool-Aid" Bill Brink

I must've missed Bill Brink's opinion in that, Max.

Help me out here.

Almost sounds to me like he is reporting what others said. You know, his job.

While I like the Burnett trade. I can't say he's the savior because lets say he has an ERA of 4 it won't matter if you have a lineup that can only score three runs a game. So much of the offenses success or lack of success depends on Pedro let's hope he makes significant strides for the good this season.

Anyone care to recall which other catchers were available this off season?

Ryan Doumit was available. he was a better option. The Pirates did not improve in the offseason. they replaced and they pretty much only replaced one question mark with another. They did not get any better.

@DaveTN

Doumit didn't sniff a level of acceptable defense at 1st base.

Despite what fastasy baseball fans think, you can't just plug a warm body into that position.

The Pirates infield is average at best. Last thing they need is a 1st baseman that botches every pick.


Doumit was bad in right field and much, much worse at first base.-- Bob Smizik

And no, Doumit's offensive ability was not worth what his option was.

Just ask the Minnesota Twins.

@Meathead

Would you want Doumit to be the starting catcher for 120-130 games?

...
written by FantasyTom, February 23, 2012 - 09:28 AM
McKenry and Barahas will be terrific, all this will be forgotten and we will certainly not miss Doumit or Snyder one bit.

Looking forward to a fun season with the Pirates this year -- ENJOY!

-------------------------------------------------------

Your screen name says it all. Enjoy your fantasy, Tom.

The way the BMTIB handled the catching situation reminds me of a Three Stooges skit. They were in a boat and somehow got a hole in the bottom. Moe told Larry and Curly they needed to get rid of the water. Curley (BMTIB) punched another hole in the bottom of the boat to drain the water.

As has been said by others, here, "Stay loosing my friends".

...

Faced with paying their two most experienced catches far more money than they deserved,

There are 2 points to be made here:

1) TBMTIB negotiated those contracts that made those TWO catchers too high priced.

2) The reason Barajas is an upgrade is because he costs less.

This is all reminiscent of the discussion about Snyder being an upgrade when they signed him (with a history of back problems).

How many more times can the Pirates upgrade behind the plate?

I think to really grasp whether Barajas is going to be an upgrade, we shouldn't wait to actually see him play, we should just get some projections for the 2012 season.

I will look into that after projecting what my income would be if I had won the lottery in 2004 and bought Google stock at it's IPO.

For those that are comfortable or even applaud the 2012 catching situation that Bob, I think graded quite accurately a D, I have a question for you....

What's the plan for 2013?

Just sign some other stiff to a 1 yr deal?

And please don't tell me that Tony Sanchez who failed at AA in 2011 will rise meteorically through AAA in 2012 and will be ready to assume his righful place as the Nuttings starting catcher in 2013.

NuHo,

I understand that Doumit would have been better than what they have now but do you think he would have even came back if offered a contract? I bet he was relieved to get out of baseball heII. I would be willing to guess it would have taken a lot more than what the Twins offered for him to come back.

4Eva,

I understand that Doumit would have been better than what they have now but do you think he would have even came back if offered a contract? I bet he was relieved to get out of baseball heII. I would be willing to guess it would have taken a lot more than what the Twins offered for him to come back.

I think in some cases, money talks.

So if Doumit had the following choices:

A) Sign a 1 yr $3M deal to back up Mauer and maybe get some ab's at DH.

or

B) Sign a 2 yr deal at $4M per yr, $8M guaranteed, with an opportunity to play every day.

I think it's very likely he would have taken the $8M guaranteed and the starting role vs. the $3M and part time duty.


That said, I do certainly understand the attractiveness of getting out of baseball hell.

written by Nutting Hostage, February 23, 2012 - 09:58 AM -- For those that are comfortable or even applaud the 2012 catching situation that Bob, I think graded quite accurately a D, I have a question for you....
What's the plan for 2013?
Just sign some other stiff to a 1 yr deal?

EXACTLY!!

The Pirates are lacking in front of the plate too.

written by BayouHoward, February 23, 2012 - 10:07 AM

The Pirates are lacking in front of the plate too.

Yes, but the PBC is definitely not lacking in the Front Office!

A) Sign a 1 yr $3M deal to back up Mauer and maybe get some ab's at DH.

Ryan Doumit is the Twins starting DH. Hardly qualifies as "some ab's".

What's the plan for 2013?

Just sign some other stiff to a 1 yr deal?

Yup. We can talk about finally trading prospects for a young catcher blocked in another teams system, which is about the only other way the Pirates have a chance at getting a legit young player, but it's fairly obvious they are not willing to do that.

Tony Sanchez or Rod Barajas Jr.

4Eva,

To expound on the "money talks" theme....

I think Doumit is a player who hasn't made a great deal of money (relatively speaking that is. Coming into this season, Doumit has earned roughly $9M) in his career) as a MLB player yet and would have taken $8M guaranteed over 2 yrs to $3M for 1 yr because it would give him significant financial security beyond what he has earned so far. An $8M deal over the next two years would close to double what he has earned so far.

By the same token, I think Derrek Lee is in a different situation. Coming in to 2012 Lee has earned $91M so far during his career. I think his situation is different. I think in his case, he has 1, maybe 2 years left in his career and given the financial security he has amassed, at this point he probably isn't interested in playing out his final days in a losing situation with the Nuttings, regardless of the money offered.

End of the day, I think each situation is different and factors include:

- the money offered
- security
- How much the player has already earned in their career.
- The opportunity for playing time (part time or start)
- The chances the club offering a job can compete
- The liklihood the player may be dealt at mid season, thus disrupting their lives for the final two months of the season.

I'd say the "D" grade is about right.

Barajas was probably the best of the rest, in terms of availability. Free agency looked a little thin at the catching position.

Doumit is/was certainly the better player, but it doesn't do much good if he didn't want to be here. Although he took a major paycut to play with the Twins, I doubt he would take a major paycut to play for the Pirates.

The question is, did the guy even want to be here? Would overpaying him assuage those concerns with his attitude?

A break was probably the best decision. It just so happens that there isn't/wasn't anyone ready to step up full-time to replace him.

NuHo--

That about sums it up on Lee. The man's won a World Series title, Gold Gloves, came close to winning an MVP somewhere in there...

In the end, what's more money?

Would you want Doumit to be the starting catcher for 120-130 games?

That would be great actually. I wouldn't mind having him start in RF for 120-130 games either.

...

Ryan Doumit was available. he was a better option. The Pirates did not improve in the offseason. they replaced and they pretty much only replaced one question mark with another. They did not get any better.

If by "better", you mean something to do with what happens on the field, you are right.

But, if by "better" you mean something to do with what happens at the cash register, then Barajas is an upgrade, and the Pirates are much improved.

End of the day, I just think it is interesting that we're talking about a club that has endured 19 losing seasons, and an owner and front office that has produced nothing but 90 to 105 loss seasons since taking charge and instead of getting better, the better part of this blog has been spent discussing how much they got.

Shouldn't a club, owner, and front office with this history and track record be getting better?

People, myself included, blast Littlefield and McClatchy for the terrible job they did, but the fact of the matter is, since taking over in late 2007, this front office and owner have dumbed down the major league product even worse than it was when Littlefield and McClatchy were running things. - It's not even debateable.

Instead people say that this regime has focused on improving the farm system. OK, so then why after 5 years of high draft picks, relatively large draft budgets, and debilitating trades for prospects, why wasn't there a more attractive in house solution for
1B other than Garret Jones? Why wasn't there a more suitable in-house solution for shortstop? Why wasn't there a more suitable solution for 2 starting rotation spots? Why wasn't there a more suitable in-house solution for RF and LF than having two speedy light hitting leadoff types?

So the major league product has declined progressively with this regime over the past 5 years.

And the farm system isn't producing.

So why is it they called the "best management team in baseball" again?

NUho - you are not being patient enough. It takes time to build from the ground up. Have a Dos Equis XX while you wait

written by Nutting Hostage, February 23, 2012 - 10:24 AM

So why is it they called the "best management team in baseball" again?

Because Bob Nutting said so! You got a problem with that?

+0

Free agency is not the only way to acquire players. The Pirates had the option to make a trade for a decent catcher, too.

written by kevin morris, February 23, 2012 - 10:32 AM
Free agency is not the only way to acquire players. The Pirates had the option to make a trade for a decent catcher, too.

You wouldn't want to part with any of the Gold Gloves and Cy Young Award winners that populate the PBC minor league system, would you?

Because Bob Nutting said so! You got a problem with that?

I guess I don't because as we all know, questioning Bob's commitment or his family's commitment to winning, is completely inappropriate.

I keep forgetting that. My bad.

The Buccos were in a tough spot at catcher this offseason. Neither Snyder nor DOH!mit should have been brought back. Snyder is coming off of a back injury and I wasn't really impressed with what I saw when he was healthy. DOH!mit could hit. But his bat was nowhere near good enough to make up for his glove.

The FA market was slim pickings. Ramon Hernandez was probably the best available, but they would have had to have given up a draft pick to get him. It would have been silly for a team like the Pirates to give up a draft pick.

I thought that Barajas was probably the best of the rest. Which is another example of damning with faint praise. I liked the signing - with the caveat of adding a quality backup, which they didn't. Everyone loves The Little Engine Who Could McHenry. So do I, but they need a better 1b if Barajas is the 1a.

Tony Sanchez is the wild card. I can understand not wanting to "block" him by picking up anyone long term. But it's risky putting all of your eggs in the Tony Sanchez basket. He regressed last year, but I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. People hoping to see him this year are way off though. 2013 may be a stretch too.

I think they were in a position of having to make chicken soup out of chicken you-know-what. Which will be the same story when Bob examines the SS situation.

Bob's grade is pretty accurate. But I like to think I have a rosier view of the Bucs than he does, so I'd call it a C-.

The Trib is reporting old Frank Coonelly got a D.U.I. in December. Nice work Frank....

Pirates president Frank Coonelly has been charged with four counts related to drunken driving in Ross, the Tribune-Review has learned.

Ross Township police arrested Coonelly, 51, of Sewickley on Dec. 22 and charged him with drunken driving, driving the wrong way, careless driving and driving with a blood-alcohol content of at least .16, according to court records. The state's legal limit is .08.

NUho - you are not being patient enough. It takes time to build from the ground up. Have a Dos Equis XX while you wait

You kid, but the problem now is, this regime is now heading down the same desperate path that Littlefield did before he was fired.

Because the farm system is not producing, the club has spent somewhere between $30M and $40M the past two years on aging end of the line 1 or 2 yr stop gaps instead of investing that money more constructively on players that have upside for several years. They're were never in a position to go after a Chapman, or a Soler, or a Cespedes.

If they weren't wasting so much money on stop gaps just to fill out the roster, maybe they could afford to go after some worthwhile internation free agents worth having.

Every team has every position covered for 2013!

...
Jose would like to remind Max that Chris Snyder came to the PBC via trade, with the contract that had the options. The PBC/NH did cleverly negotiate the contract with options that Doumit had.

Jose Himself

Pirates president Frank Coonelly has been charged with four counts related to drunken driving in Ross, the Tribune-Review has learned.

Ross Township police arrested Coonelly, 51, of Sewickley on Dec. 22 and charged him with drunken driving, driving the wrong way, careless driving and driving with a blood-alcohol content of at least .16, according to court records. The state's legal limit is .08.

Wow, Pirate fans might get rid of Frank sooner than we thought...

...
Meathead: Pardon me for not catching it if you were being sarcastic, but would you really want Ryan "The Statue" Doumit playing 120 - 130 games in RF?

Mr and Mrs Pagan recently had the pleasure to view Mr. Doumit "patrol" RF from the RF field boxes at PNC Park. The first flyball to him nearly hit him in the head. A last minute decision to use his glove saved him from perhaps some sort of upper body injury, as they say in the NHL.

For the balance of the game we watched him adjust to batters and game situations by standing, as if planted there, in the exact same spot. When he broke for the ball it was like watching a team of water buffalo in a rice paddy during monsoon season.

You can't teach speed, and he doesn't have it.

Jose

Apparently, the Pirates are lacking in a club president too.

A few thoughts:

--I loved the way Doumit played the game

--Doumit could never hit enough to make up for his defensive liabilities

--Doumit refused to put in the work to be able to play 1b, where he could have been valuable to the Bucs.

--With his concussion history, his days behind the plate are numbered

--Doumit had run ins with the front office and was not quiet about questionting their committment to winning. There was almost no way he would accept a contract less than his club option.

--I would not be suprised if the Pirates carry 3 catchers. Or, instead, if the Fort doesn't make it out of Spring Training.

written by King Arthur, February 23, 2012 - 10:41 AM

Every team has every position covered for 2013!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once again we witness the fallacy of the straw man.

written by jasonpkerr, February 23, 2012 - 10:37 AM

The Trib is reporting old Frank Coonelly got a D.U.I. in December. Nice work Frank....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk about Nutting and Company getting a free ride - happened in December and only now being reported.

LOL You can't make this stuff up.



If they are getting a ``free ride,'' why is it being reported at all? -- Bob Smizik

Meathead: Pardon me for not catching it if you were being sarcastic, but would you really want Ryan "The Statue" Doumit playing 120 - 130 games in RF?

I was not being sarcastic given what the Pirates currently have. I can grudgingly accept having a platoon of Taabbaattaa/Pressssssley in LF but not both having starting jobs.

...
If Doumit was unable to make up for his defense at C with his bat, then there is no way he would be able to do so in RF. He makes Garrett Jones look like a Gold Glover out there.

Jose

ISIS,

They should offer him a plea....

Resign and the charges are fully dropped or stay on and you will punished to the full extent of the law.

Great stuff today, Jose. Couldn't agree more.

written by BaseballFan, February 23, 2012 - 12:57 AM

So much for multiple legit prospects here. What a joke.


You are showing your lack of knowledge of the Pirate minor league system again. Let me explain something else that apparently you don't comprehend, there is a major league team and many minor league teams. Having a poor position at the major league level does not mean that there is no depth in the minors.

For example the Pirates do not have a stellar starting rotation, does that mean that there aren't several high-end prospects in the minors? Of course not, but in the pot stirring insulting world of Baeballfan it does. What a joke is right. Permanently placed on ignore.

NuHo,

People, myself included, blast Littlefield and McClatchy for the terrible job they did, but the fact of the matter is, since taking over in late 2007, this front office and owner have dumbed down the major league product even worse than it was when Littlefield and McClatchy were running things. - It's not even debateable

To say that it is not even debatable is completely out of line. Most baseball people would diagree with you in all likelihood. If you want to post your opinions that's fine, but to pass of your opinion as fact, Good Grief!

Nuho,

A couple of other problems with your points is that number 1 this team has had 4 drafts. Number 2 it has been beaten to death here how few draft choice throughout all of MLB have contributed much of anything the past 4 years. Your expectations after 4 years is completely unreasonable. Good Grief! How many positions do you think can be filled in basically one draft? The reality is the past 3 drafts there hasn't been near enough time to do much. Wow!

The Pirate's minor league system has not been able to produce a catcher in two years as good as McKenry. That, by any grading scale, is failure.

Robert -
What's going on with Jaramillo? I liked his bat. His defense is of course not very good. Thoughts?
Ron

Jaramillo is playing for another team...namely, the Cubs.

Jose

lets bring Paulino back!

"there hasn't been near enough time to do much."

I thought they already had done much according to you guys? The big flood?

Where is the homegrown catching depth in the minors? Why the need to bring in filler?

*t's easier to draft good pitching prospects when your "dynasty" finishes at or near the bottom of the standings.

Baseballfan,

Name a team that doesn't bring in filler.


They have done much, that has been proven by 6 prospects in the top 76. They have an overall system rated in the top ten. They have done a lot, they haven't done enough though. No one is saying the things you claim. Just keep coming on trying to stir the pot.
Sirius,

Do you ever give up? I'm not Dog and no matter how many times you say otherwise doesn't change it. Again the description I was given for this Dog person fits you to a tee.

Where did I say you were Dog? Protest too much? You just said they didn't have time to do much, make up your mind. BA and Sickels did not rank their system in the top 10.

written by ISIS, February 23, 2012 - 09:46 AM

Your screen name says it all. Enjoy your fantasy, Tom.

Yup, that's me -- Thanks ISIS

LOL,lomez yeah I really wanted the Pirates to draft a borderline catcher with the fourth overall pick. Thanks for the facepalm though. That showed me. By the way let me know what I wrote wasn't true.

Baseballfan,

Sirius called me dog not you. I said they did a lot, boy do you grasp at straws. They have had 4 years and they have improved the team's minor league system by a lot. I said they didn't have enough time to do much on the big league level. Your not one to actually follow anything or to back up anything with actual facts so whatever. I don't care where Sickels and BA ranked them, they have been ranked in the top ten and you know that. Give it up. As usual you avoid the questions and try to move goalposts.

"The reality is the past 3 drafts there hasn't been near enough time to do much."

You talked about the draft. I did back it up with the actual BA rankings, not the fictional top 5 ones you guys were bragging about. Come and make me give it up if you love Huntington that much. I'm right here you worthless shill. And learn proper grammar idiot.

@Scooter, you said --

I can't blame the Pirates for releasing
Doumit.

I realize that the Pirates would have had to seriously overpay for him AND he's injury-prone.

But -- quoting Bob -- he

had the highest OPS among National League catchers with more than 200 at bats

.

And if there's one thing the Pirates need, it's hitting.

So with the Pirates having a team salary in the bottom 10% of major-league teams, I think they should have (1)gone ahead and overpaid him, (2)hoped for the best wrt injuries, (3)tried to live with his poor defense, and (4)put him in the middle of the lineup to get some key hits and big RBI.